Hell Is Not The Lake of Fire

[mark s]

Does it mean they are not saved?

So do you believe that Jesus was sent to save everyone or just some? If just some then which ones?

Hi jiggyfly,

I think Jesus purchased salvation for everyone, but only some will believe and receive. Those who do not will still end up acknowledging that Jesus is Lord, but this will be the acknowledgment of the condemned to the Judge.

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[jiggyfly]

Hi jiggyfly,

I think Jesus purchased salvation for everyone, but only some will believe and receive. Those who do not will still end up acknowledging that Jesus is Lord, but this will be the acknowledgment of the condemned to the Judge.

Love in Christ,
Mark

Well that really avoids my questions rather then answering them. I asked you what Jesus was sent to do? But if you aren't comfortable answering then we can just leave it at that.

 

[mark s]

Well that really avoids my questions rather then answering them. I asked you what Jesus was sent to do? But if you aren't comfortable answering then we can just leave it at that.

Sorry if I was less than complete in my answer!

Jesus was sent to die for the sins of humanity.

He paid the price for all our sins.

Love in Christ,
Mark

PS . . . there have been some questions of mine that have remained unanswered also . . .

 

[jiggyfly]

So you don,t believe that Jesus was sent to save the world?


Sorry I didn't answer some of your questions, point them out and I will try to answer them.

 

[mark s]

Sent to save the world?

Yes, that is given in Scripture:

John 3:16-21 LITV
(16) For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(17) For God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
(18) The one believing into Him is not condemned; but the one not believing has already been condemned, for he has not believed into the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(19) And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness more than the Light, for their works were evil.
(20) For everyone practicing wickedness hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, that his works may not be exposed.
(21) But the one doing the truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they exist, having been worked in God.


But as you will notice, the distinction remains between the believing and the unbelieving, the condemned and those not condemned, those who come to the light and those who love darkness.

One question that was missed . . . Do you think at Satan will be redeemed, to return to his place with God?

Another is, what do you make of the lake of fire? No one will be thrown in? Or those thrown into it come back out?

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[Webers_Home]

.

Do you think at Satan will be redeemed

Christ didn't sacrifice his life for spirits: he sacrificed himself for his fellow
men. Hence, the Devil is never coming out of the reservoir of liquefied flame
depicted at Rev 20:10.

Or those thrown into it come back out?

The reservoir of liquefied flame depicted at Rev 20:11-15 is labeled the
second death. So then, since there is but one resurrection allotted per
person, (Dan 12:2, John 5:29) then nobody is coming back from that
reservoir because they will have used up their one resurrection in order to
appear in court at the Great White Throne event; viz: the dead's
incarceration in the reservoir will be permanent; and their corpses will be
preserved as perpetual nourishment for a rather curious species of fire-proof
worm.

†. Isa 66:23-24 . . All humanity will come to worship me from week to week
and from month to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies
of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will
never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by
will view them with utter horror.

†. Mrk 9:47-48 . . If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for
you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be
thrown into hell, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not
quenched.

Cliff
/

 

[mark s]

Hi Cliff,

My understanding is that the ancient Jewish understanding of this "undying worm" is that this was what they called that which was left of a man after the destruction of God's judgment.

CP to Psalm 22.

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[Webers_Home]

.

My understanding is that the ancient Jewish understanding of this "undying
worm" is that this was what they called that which was left of a man after
the destruction of God's judgment. CP to Psalm 22.

If it is your wish that the worm of Ps 22:6 be the worms of Isa 66:23-24
and Mrk 9:47-48, then more power to you. I will not deny you the right to
interpret the Bible for yourself.

Cliff
/

 

[mark s]

Actually, my wish is to know God meant when He wrote.

To make this as if its a matter of my personal preference, well, why?

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[Webers_Home]

.

Actually, my wish is to know God meant when He wrote.

Good luck with that. I have a list containing 112 versions of the Bible.
Which one(s) can be trusted to accurately represent what God meant? I
don't know.

To make this as if its a matter of my personal preference, well, why?

Because unless you know the number to dial for technical support in heaven;
you pretty much have no choice but to go with whatever appeals to you.

Cliff
/

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Because unless you know the number to dial for technical support in heaven;
you pretty much have no choice but to go with whatever appeals to you.

God's phone #: 333

Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not. Jeremiah 33:3​

 

[mark s]

.


Good luck with that. I have a list containing 112 versions of the Bible.
Which one(s) can be trusted to accurately represent what God meant? I
don't know.




Because unless you know the number to dial for technical support in heaven;
you pretty much have no choice but to go with whatever appeals to you.

Cliff
/

So then . . . your posts are simply what appeals to you?

If this is true, then we have no authoritative Scripture. What are we doing here?

I have about 25 versions that I look at. These come down to 3 manuscript groups, essentially with 2 of them being nearly identical, with strong internal agreement within each group, the other having not so much internal agreement. I find that doctrines are generally taught in a number of places. I don't think it's impossible to know what God said. And I think He wants us to know. And He's God.

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[Webers_Home]

.

So then . . . your posts are simply what appeals to you?

Yes.

What are we doing here?

At best we are conducting an online bull session. I mean; how many here
have a degree from seminary? But even so, with 112 versions of the Bible in
circulation; whose to say their seminary used the right version(s) or even that
their seminary correctly interpreted the version(s) they thought was right?

I don't think it's impossible to know what God said. And I think He wants us to know.

Actually the knowledge of God isn't available to everyone. It's restricted to
an inner circle.

†. Mtt 11:27 . . All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one
knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the
Son: and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.

Cliff
/

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But even so, with 112 versions of the Bible in
circulation; whose to say their seminary used the right version(s) or even that
their seminary correctly interpreted the version(s) they thought was right?

Why not dispense with the 112 and go directly to the sources? See my signature.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou
knowest not. Jeremiah 33:3

Just as it's dishonest to attempt to cash a check not made out to you, so it's
dishonest to attempt to usurp an offer not given to you. Jer 33:3 was offered
neither to you nor to me: it was offered to Jeremiah.

†. Jer 33:1-3 . . Moreover the word of Yhvh came unto Jeremiah the second
time, while he was yet shut up in the court of the prison, saying: Thus
testifies Yhvh— the maker thereof, Yhvh that formed it, to establish it; Yhvh
is His name —call unto me, and I will answer you, and show you great and
mighty things, which you know not.

Here's another one that I see Christians attempting to usurp for themselves.

†. 2Chrn 7:14 . . If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble
themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways;
then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their
land.

To begin with "my people" are the Jews, and "their land" is Israel. To end
with: Christians don't have a "their land" no; they have a kingdom.

†. Col 1:13 . . He has delivered us from the power of darkness, and
translated us into the kingdom of His dear son

†. Heb 12:28 . .Wherefore, we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved,
let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence
and godly fear

†. Heb 13:14 . . For here we have no permanent city, but we seek one to
come.

Cliff
/

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Just as it's dishonest to attempt to cash a check not made out to you, so it's
dishonest to attempt to usurp an offer not given to you. Jer 33:3 was offered
neither to you nor to me: it was offered to Jeremiah.

Uh... It was a light-hearted attempt at humor. You're right in the sense that it does not apply to you. You cannot speak for me though.

 

[jiggyfly]

Sent to save the world?

Yes, that is given in Scripture:

John 3:16-21 LITV
(16) For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(17) For God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
(18) The one believing into Him is not condemned; but the one not believing has already been condemned, for he has not believed into the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(19) And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness more than the Light, for their works were evil.
(20) For everyone practicing wickedness hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, that his works may not be exposed.
(21) But the one doing the truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they exist, having been worked in God.

So do you believe that Jesus failed to save the world?

But as you will notice, the distinction remains between the believing and the unbelieving, the condemned and those not condemned, those who come to the light and those who love darkness.

True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they were unfaithful, does that mean God will be unfaithful?4 Of course not! Even if everyone else is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say about him,

“You will be proved right in what you say, and you will win your case in court.”
Romans 3:3-4 (NLT)



This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.
1 Tim 4:10 (NLT)

One question that was missed . . . Do you think at Satan will be redeemed, to return to his place with God?

Yes, the scriptures state that God reconciled not just some things but rather all things.
19 For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ,20 and through him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of Christ’s blood on the cross.
Col 1:19-20 (NLT)
35 “Love your enemies! Do good to them. Lend to them without expecting to be repaid. Then your reward from heaven will be very great, and you will truly be acting as children of the Most High, for he is kind to those who are unthankful and wicked.36 You must be compassionate, just as your Father is compassionate.
Luke 6:35-36 (NLT)

Another is, what do you make of the lake of fire? No one will be thrown in? Or those thrown into it come back out?

Love in Christ,
Mark

I believe that those who enter the lake of fire return after they are purged, cleansed and healed of their wickedness, evil desires and rebellion.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

You're right in the sense that [Jer 33:3] does not apply to you. You cannot speak for me though.

So you've been hearing voices and seeing visions?

19 For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ,20 and through
him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in
heaven and on earth by means of Christ’s blood on the cross.
Col 1:19-20 (NLT)

Not all translations agree with the grammar of the NLT. For example; the
NLT renders the tense of "reconciled" in verse 20 in the past tense; while the
KJV, NKJV, NIV, ASV, NASV, Young's LIteral, and the Catholic Bible don't.

According to the overwhelming majority of common translations, the sense
is that Christ has been designated a reconciling agent; but that doesn't eo
ipso indicate that everything will be.

for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people

God as the savior of all people won't eo ipiso result in all people being
saved. All it's saying is that the Bible's God is mankind's only hope of rescue
from His own wrath.

†. John 4:22 . . Salvation is of the Jews.

†. Acts 4:12 . . Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name
under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

I believe that those who enter the lake of fire return after they are purged,
cleansed and healed of their wickedness, evil desires and rebellion.

With all due respect for your personal convictions; the reservoir of liquefied
flame depicted at Rev 20:11-15 is labeled the second death. So then, since
there is but one resurrection allotted per person, (Dan 12:2, John 5:29) then
nobody is coming back from that reservoir because they will have used up
their one resurrection in order to appear in court at the Great White Throne
event; viz: the dead's incarceration in the reservoir will be permanent; and
according to Isa 66:22-24, and Mrk 9:47-48; their corpses will be preserved
as perpetual nourishment for a rather curious species of fire-proof worm.

Cliff
/

 

[jiggyfly]

Not all translations agree with the grammar of the NLT. For example; the
NLT renders the tense of "reconciled" in verse 20 in the past tense; while the
KJV, NKJV, NIV, ASV, NASV, Young's LIteral, and the Catholic Bible don't.

According to the overwhelming majority of common translations, the sense
is that Christ has been designated a reconciling agent; but that doesn't eo
ipso indicate that everything will be.

You may want to look at the Greek text and refer to the next verse (21)
Tis the same Greek word apokatallassō used in both verse 20 &21.

Paul stated in his letter to the believers in Rome as well asin his letter to the believers at Philipi that "every knee will bow and every tongue confess".

Isaiah prophesied this as well.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

You may want to look at the Greek text and refer to the next verse (21) Tis
the same Greek word apokatallassō used in both verse 20 &21.

If koiné Greek were that simple, then I've no doubt that the translators of
the KJV, NKJV, NIV, ASV, NASV, Young's Literal, and the Catholic Bible;
would have come to your conclusion: but they didn't. In point of fact, the
NLT is well known for taking liberties with grammar and syntax; and a
number of reputable Bible teachers do not recommend it as a translation for
that reason. One of my personal favorites recommends the NLT as a
paraphrase rather than a scholarly translation. Caveat Lector.

every knee will bow and every tongue confess

Stripping a criminal of his dignity, and inducing him to own his crimes,
doesn't eo ipso make him and the State beer buddies.

†. Ps 5:5-6 . .The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; You hate all workers
of iniquity. You shall destroy those who speak falsehood: Yhvh abhors the
bloodthirsty and deceitful man.

†. Ps 11:5-6 . .Yhvh tests the righteous, but the wicked and the one who
loves violence His soul hates. Upon the wicked He will rain coals— fire and
brimstone and a burning wind shall be the portion of their cup.

†. Isa 2:11-12 . .The eyes of the arrogant man will be humbled and the
pride of men brought low; Yhvh alone will be exalted in that day. Yhvh
Almighty has a day in store for all the proud and lofty, for all that is exalted
(and they will be humbled)

†. Mal 4:1 . . For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, and all the
proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming
shall burn them up— testifies the Lord of hosts —that will leave them neither
root nor branch.

Cliff
/