Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

[Truman]

Hey! I've got a gentile twin! Lol

 

[Addy]

Hey! I've got a gentile twin! Lol

and I've got a jewish levite twin.

Back to ON topic.

 

[Truman]

and I've got a jewish levite twin.

Back to ON topic.

Thanks, Addy...I needed that! Lol

 

[amigo de christo]

I am operating on the assumption that most people who sin are aware that they have done so.... they do not need correcting by anyone... they need to repent and be allowed to work it out with GOD.

You say you have given me the biblical way... yet you seem to think there is an awful lot of CORRECTING to do. I don't agree that the majority of sinners are UNAWARE that they have sinned.

I never said they were unaware . The man who had his fathers wife wasnt unware he was in a sin . But he still had to be cast out
till repentance was made . Some folks would look at paul like he is some kind of monster .
He even said if a brother or a sister was a fornicator , even covetous or etc not to even eat with such a one .
But todays folks see that as being legalistic and a monster . It is truly sad what has become of the church .
Anyway , by grace and till my last breath i am gonna remind folks . Always pointing to CHRIST. Beholding both the severity of GOD
and His goodness .

 

[Truman]

My dad used to say, "This is going to hurt you more than it hurts me." I never believed him.
He could've been telling the truth, though since I barely knew him...
My problem with the church that I know is that they insisted on cracking the whip when they only thought they understood my situation.
My response..."I'll do what you say, but since I'm not Superman, pray for my physical healing. Hello..."

 

[Taken]

Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!
OP ^

All that stand before Jesus...
Were Born IN Sin.
Some died IN their Sin, and will be Judged according to the Book of Life...name IS NOT in the Book, body & soul & natural spirit Destroyed.
Some are Forgiven, and their Sin Remembered no more, and Sin no more. They are Judged according to the Book of Life...Name in Book, Forever Life.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

So our approach ought to be the same as well .
if brethren sin , INSTEAD OF SAYING ITS OKAY , we ought to put them out of the church if they refuse to repent of it .
Take a peek at corinthians . They put that man OUT . Even paul had wrote and said
Deliver him over to satan for destruction of the flesh that the soul might be saved in the day of the LORD .
IT WORKED BB . The man actually REPENTED of said sin and was later brought back in .
I dont see this approach to sin with hyper grace folks . AND THAT WORRIES ME . Cause if we dont hold to the original pattern
IF the original pattern WAS SPIRIT INSPIRED , AND YES IT WAS , HOW COME WE DONT FOLLOW THAT PATTERN .
I will tell us why many dont . THEY GOT SPOON FED a grace that is not in agreement with the grace of GOD .
THEY were taught ye just cant outsin Gods love . INSTEAD OF BEING TAUGHT , LET IT NOT ONCE BE NAMED .
Sounds very different those two mindsets do . AND I KNOW PAUL KNEW GOD , so todays men who teach a contrary pattern
obviously DONT KNOW GOD . Many are being lulled to sleep by a fake love and a sensual approach to sin
and not rather a grave appraoch towards sin .

I could not agree with you more....Overt, outlandish, unrepentant Believers need to be kicked out of the Church until they get an “Attitude Adjustment”......We are not talking about Salvation....if the man is a Believer in Christ Jesus, he is Sealed and Saved permanently.....

I’m as Hyper Grace as a man can get, but I can’t disagree with is clearly Biblical.....You will NEVER see me say, “ it’s OK to sin” ——- it’s NOT OK, but God Chastise His Children ( getting ejected from the Church is one example) when they Sin.....He does NOT cast them into Hell ......when Gid made the Promise that “ Anybody that asks to be Saved WILL BE saved” , He didn’t see any of this stuff coming? It is clear how He handles foolish, Disobedient Children— and it damning everybody left and right because ALL of us “ Stumble” , as James pointed out.....

Had the Sinful Believer at Corinth not Repented and changed his behavior, God probably would have “ taken him home” early with a premature death.....God is not going to be mocked.....make a mockery of His Grace and you will still be Saved if you are a Believer.....you are just going to pay one hell of a price—- both in your Earthly existence and also in your Heavenly Existence.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Christianity is about being conformed to the image or likeness of Christ. Which includes dealing with sin. Therefore you are only partially correct. Here is what we find in Scripture: Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (1 John 3:2,3).

Can you deny that is is speaking about dealing with sin? We are to purify ourselves by the power of the Holy Spirit, and examine ourselves daily.

It is nonsense to make the claim that I don’t believe that we must deal with Sin.....
“ Purity” is great..... and Sin, if not dealt with by ourselves, will Definitely be dealt with by Our Father.....He will Chastise His Children That go astray.....

Only God is “ pure”..... only God is “ Righteous” .... only God is Holy.....only God is “ good”.......To be Fit for Heaven, one must be ALL of these things plus MORE! We are to be PERFECT! Hebrews 10:8 declares that we have been *MADE” Holy ( or Righteous or Pure) by the Sacrifice Of The Body Of Jesus Christ once for all”.......

It is very true that we must “ examine ourselves” daily—— “examine ourselves “ to see that we are in the FAITH, because it is us our Faith and nothing else that got this whole process started ....we continue the process the same way we started it—- FAITH in CHRIST JESUS! The Faith That got the Holy Spirit in us that works from the inside out to Transform us into the Image Of Jesus is the only “ pureness” That pleases God......I am not “ pure”..... I am not “Holy” and I am not “ Righteous or Perfect” ( Perfection being the True Standard, If you want to go down that road) .....God IMPUTES me with ALL of these things simply because I REST in the Gospel......

In a practical and personal way, one’s level of all the good things that God desires—-Purity” included —— should increase as God takes the Believer through the Sanctification Process....The Point Of this Post is that Jesus will not be damning People after discerning That their level of Purity did not “ make the grade” —- He will damning because He” did not know them” ......They indeed were “ workers of iniquity” ......

How does one find himself in that terrible state? A “ Worker Of Iniquity?” There are two groups of people on this planet.....those that Rest in the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 and go to Heaven and those that REJECT that Gospel ....by default they are the “ workers of iniquity” who are damned.......BOTH groups were Sinners....the Believers in the Gospel “ cashed in” on what Christ did for them at the Cross and got their Sins forgiven by their Faith.....”workers of iniquity” heard about what God and Jesus had done FOR them and rejected it......as the Bible says, they considered it all “ Foolishness” ......Time will reveal who the True “ Fools” were......

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Hell- Bound will not be hearing, “Depart From me because You Sinned too much and therefore must go to Hell”.....We ALL have sinned too much to merit Heaven.....once again , that ain’t the issue.....The Damned souls will be hearing, “Depart From Me, I never KNEW you!”

You have to be careful to not give false hope to people who claim they are saved but who are sinning because they aren't really saved. Because the sign that Christ does not know you is in fact your sin. Unsaved people live in their sin. Saved people do not. They struggle with it, but they do not live in it as a matter of lifestyle like they did before they were saved.

When a person gets saved righteous living is now what characterizes them. Whereas before they got saved unrighteousness is what characterized them. Every truly born again person should be able to identify with what I'm saying. A saved person is a changed person. Not a perfect person, but a changed and changing person. If that's not the case, you're probably not born again. And I'm not talking about changed in regard to things like going to church (lots of unsaved people go to church and do 'religious' things). I'm talking about a change in character. The born again experience is identified by a change in who you are as a person. If that hasn't happened you're probably not born again. And I'm not sharing this to beat up on people. I'm saying it so people who think they are saved but really aren't can get saved and be ready to meet Christ when He returns.

 

[Addy]

You have to be careful to not give false hope to people who claim they are saved but who are sinning because they aren't really saved. Because the sign that Christ does not know you is in fact your sin. Unsaved people live in their sin. Saved people do not. They struggle with it, but they do not live in it as a matter of lifestyle like they did before they were saved.

When a person gets saved righteous living is now what characterizes them. Whereas unrighteousness used to characterize them before they got saved. Every truly born again person should be able to identify with what I'm saying. A saved person is a changed person. Not a perfect person, but a changed and changing person. If that's not the case, you're probably not born again. And I'm not talking about changed in regard to things like going to church (lots of unsaved people go to church and do 'religious' things). I'm talking about a change in character. The born again experience is identified by a change in who you are as a person. If that hasn't happened you're probably not born again. And I'm not sharing this to beat up on people. I'm saying it so people who think they are saved but really aren't can get saved and be ready to meet Christ when He returns.

You know I love you and all... BUT... this is a dangerous slope you are describing. Meddling in God's business... of DECIDING who is and is NOT saved by OUTER appearance.
Christianity is all about relationship with CHRIST...
When a woman gives birth to a baby... Does she love that child ONLY when he/she is good?? NOPE... she loves him/her because he/she is part of her... and good parents love their children unconditionally.
Again... in these arguments... people use the WORST case scenarios to make their point.

Of course.... a born again person will change when they have become a Christian.... it's called SANCTIFICATION... and sin becomes an issue between child and Creator.

Too many cooks in the kitchen of DECIDING without FULL information who is in the club and who should get kicked out. ( and yes I know Christianity is NOT a club ) just using it as metaphor.

Christianity = Christ died on the cross and shed HIS blood for all the sins of the world... those who become His children ( become Christians ) belong to HIM... and HE promises to finish within them what HE has begun... so I am very careful not to cast my gaze on other's state of SALVATION by what we THINK is going on.

We live in a fallen world... filled with temptations all around us.... We experience different challenges in our lives... sometimes our faith is strong... and sometimes it's like mush when we are hurting.

God is aware of all this... always gathering... calling... seeking... waiting patiently for us to simply come to HIM.

Sin falls off us as a result of our LOVE and DEVOTION to CHRIST.... legalism teaches it backwards.... PROVING self-worth by trying to do good and be good is the WRONG motivation... Sadly... many Christians ascribe to this very bad doctrine.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Sin falls off us as a result of our LOVE and DEVOTION to CHRIST.... legalism teaches it backwards.... PROVING self-worth by trying to do good and be good is the WRONG motivation... Sadly... many Christians ascribe to this very bad doctrine.

Interesting and quite correct.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Had the Sinful Believer at Corinth not Repented and changed his behavior, God probably would have “ taken him home” early with a premature death.

Paul said he had to be turned over to satan so that he might be saved, not will be saved. How does physically dying change the 'might be saved' to 'will be saved'? What does physically dying do to save a person?

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Paul said he had to be turned over to satan so that he might be saved, not will be saved. How does physically dying change the 'might be saved' to 'will be saved'? What does physically dying do to save a person?

That is incorrect context and in Old proper English thats the "proper legal" usage of words like "may" and "must" just like in court and contract law today.

Words like "may" can be interchanged with words like "must" as they carry the same weight and meaning.

Just like a petition before an official body is also referred to as a "prayer before the court".

That verse means what is said in other areas that for the saved- sins of the flesh will be punished in the flesh and of the spirit (mans spirit) will be punished in the spirit but neither will remove the salvation (from judgement).

Paul was making the point that "he wont get away from openly sinning in the flesh" and there is a price to be paid for abusing the gift of forgiveness when its legitimate. Being saved is NOT a "license to sin with impunity".

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You know I love you and all... BUT... this is a dangerous slope you are describing. Meddling in God's business... of DECIDING who is and is NOT saved by OUTER appearance.

John explains this in his letter. False teachers and their false teachings had infiltrated the church. John told them to let no one deceive them about this: Involvement with sin is how you recognize truly born again people from those who are not. This is not my teaching. This is John's.

Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. The one who practices sin is of the devil..." 1 John 3:7-8​

When a woman gives birth to a baby... Does she love that child ONLY when he/she is good?? NOPE... she loves him/her because he/she is part of her... and good parents love their children unconditionally.
Again... in these arguments... people use the WORST case scenarios to make their point.

Let me adjust your analogy a little to keep it in line with John's teaching. When a woman's baby does not grow up looking like her husband, it probably doesn't belong to her husband! And so it is with us. If we aren't growing up into the image of God, we show that we don't belong to him. We are not of his seed, but rather (still) of the seed of Adam. We are not born again.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That is incorrect context and in Old proper English thats the "proper legal" usage of words like "may" and "must" just like in court and contract law today.

You can check it out for yourself easily enough. The mood of the verb "may be saved" in 1 Corinthians 5:5 is subjunctive, which means the action described 'may or may not happen'. It is the mood of uncertainty.

In the text, the condition that must be met in order for this person to be saved when Jesus comes back is that his flesh be put to death. Not his physical body (what value does that have toward being saved????), but the death of the flesh in regard to sin.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

You can check it out for yourself easily enough. The mood of the verb "may be saved" in 1 Corinthians 5:5 is subjunctive, which means the action described 'may or may not happen'. It is the mood of uncertainty.

I have, thats why I corrected you.

In the text, the condition that must be met in order for this person to be saved when Jesus comes back is that his flesh be put to death. Not his physical body (what value does that have toward being saved????), but the death of the flesh in regard to sin.

Nowhere is that thought or act in scripture and the cumulative body of information effectively refutes that interpretation.

If he "wasn't saved"- then putting him to death sends him to hell. That's the finite and only conclusion.

If he was saved then it is as I pointed out.

There's no "maybe". Nowhere does Paul mention or even allude to and "repentance" or 'salvation" during the handover to Satan process.

Don't read things that are not there or add to it.

 

[Addy]

False teachers and their false teachings had infiltrated the church

That is correct.... WoF... Catholicism... Calvinism... some forms of pentecostalism.... LEGALISM....there is a very long list of FALSE teachings...

Let me adjust your analogy a little to keep it in line with John's teaching. When a woman's baby does not grow up looking like her husband, it probably doesn't belong to her husband! And so it is with us. If we aren't growing up into the image of God, we show that we don't belong to him. We are not of his seed, but rather (still) of the seed of Adam. We are not born again.

I have no idea where this comes from... but WOW... When a woman's baby does not grow up looking like her husband?? REALLY???

I take it if you had a child that declared themselves as gay... you would disown them then... or if you had a child who became an alcoholic or drug addict?? Maybe a child who was shacked up because it saves money.

The above are real issues we as Christian parents have to deal with sometimes... our reaction as parents does not diminish the FACT that they are STILL our CHILDREN... only we do not deal with things as WONDERFULLY and PROPERLY as GOD does.

God indeed DEALS with our sin... all the time... every second of the day HE deals with our sin... the problem is that PEOPLE think it's their JOB to FIND the sin in others.

 

[Addy]

BB is in da house!!!!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Now some people say the person in 1 Corinthians 5 was never saved to begin with. Others say his is saved but since he is living in sin he will lose his salvation and not be saved when Jesus comes back. What does it matter? Neither argument changes the fact that this fellow must stop living in his sin in order to be saved when Jesus comes back. Let's summarize the arguments:

Argument 1: This dude is sinning because he's not really saved. He has to repent and get saved so he can be saved when Jesus comes back.

Argument 2: This dude is saved but he's going to lose his salvation by living in sin. He has to repent so he can be saved when Jesus comes back.

So you can see neither argument changes the fact that this fellow has to repent to be saved when Jesus comes back. The saved person can not live in sin. He either has to repent because he's a born again person and born again people can't live in sin, or he has to repent because he'll lose his salvation because he went back to his old life of sin. Either way, this guy has to repent!

There is a 3rd very ridiculous argument that says people are saved even if they live in sin. The misguided reasoning being that since salvation is not by works (which is true) you can't lose your salvation by a lack of works. But as I've shown, 1 John 3:4-10 completely dispels that argument. Living in sin is, ultimately, the sign you are not born again. He doesn't say you're just a really bad, sinning saint. He says you're not born again. And, that we should not be deceived by anyone about this!

 

[Addy]

There is a 3rd very ridiculous argument that says people are saved even if they live in sin.

Uuuummm... Have you looked in the mirror lately???

Sin is sin.... if you sin... you have lived in that sin... Do you not see what you are doing ???