Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

[Truman]

If I go to the bar, pick up a woman and spend the night with her, spending the night with her is the fruit of sin that first took root in my heart. Focusing on externals will only turn one into a white-washed tomb. Clean on the outside but full of defilement.
This is what Jesus was referring to when He said, "Clean the inside of the cup and the outside will be clean."

 

[Truman]

For me, salvation is an experience, which is accompanied by understanding.
If it depended on my understanding, why would I need faith?

 

[Addy]

If I go to the bar, pick up a woman and spend the night with her, spending the night with her is the fruit of sin that first took root in my heart. Focusing on externals will only turn one into a white-washed tomb. Clean on the outside but full of defilement.
This is what Jesus was referring to when He said, "Clean the inside of the cup and the outside will be clean."

BINGO....

 

[Truman]

BINGO....

Scripture says that man judges by what he sees, but that God judges the heart.
I sometimes think that believers think that He is saying that this is how it's supposed to be.
It's not. This is how the world judges.
Having a revelation of one's own heart is a humbling experience. Which is a good thing.

 

[Addy]

Scripture says that man judges by what he sees, but that God judges the heart.
I sometimes think that believers think that He is saying that this is how it's supposed to be.
It's not. This is how the world judges.
Having a revelation of one's own heart is a humbling experience. Which is a good thing.

I am 100% on board with you here....but well.... Are you surprised??? That's cuz we're TWINS... lol

The problem is that legalism births pride... and all sorts of nasty things like living in hypocrisy... hiding sin... so as not to LOOK bad on the outside... It's a nasty concoction of toxic waste.

Anyways... I'm out... I have performed my duty... LOL

 

[Truman]

I think religiosity is something we all struggle with.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Uuuummm... Have you looked in the mirror lately???

Sin is sin.... if you sin... you have lived in that sin... Do you not see what you are doing ???

I do not live in sin.

Think about this: There has to be a difference between the two people John describes in 1 John 3:7-10...

"7Little children,d let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.e 8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother." ​

And we know John is not saying the person who practices righteousness is perfect. So we have to ask ourselves, "what's the difference between these two 'sinning' people John is describing? One is saved, the other is not." For some reason the church can not see what distinguishes the saved sinning person from the unsaved sinning person. The difference is the unsaved person lives in his sin as a matter of unrepentant disobedience, just like the saved person did before they were saved. John said this is how you can tell a born again person from a not born again person. It's a matter of mindset. The born again person has his mind set on righteousness, and so he walks in righteousness but may struggle with sin. The not born again person has his mind set on unrighteousness, and so he walks in unrighteousness and his struggle is with righteousness. Don't you remember this from before you were born again?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If I go to the bar, pick up a woman and spend the night with her, spending the night with her is the fruit of sin that first took root in my heart. Focusing on externals will only turn one into a white-washed tomb. Clean on the outside but full of defilement.
This is what Jesus was referring to when He said, "Clean the inside of the cup and the outside will be clean."

This logic fails in the church because many Christians ignore the fact that the dirty cup signifies that it's also dirty inside, and so they rationalize having a dirty cup all the time. They need to realize that, ultimately, a dirty cup indicates it's dirty, both, on the inside and the outside. This is the point they miss in the analogy. They miss it to their own destruction.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

WE see the world totally different you and I... I mind my own business... I know God is good and HE is in the business of saving and redeeming those HE saves... My job is to work out my own salvation...

I would never insist that someone who has the job of being in God's business of saving and redeeming those He saves adopt this attitude. It may be suited for you and I, personally, but not for someone God has been called and ordained to be an instrument through which he calls people out. Fruit inspecting (and branch trimming) is a legitimate spiritual ministry given to some among us. We can't say that no one is allowed to do that work. That would be wrong. And that is the problem. Not enough people who are supposed to be doing that work have been doing that work! They will one day explain to God why they did not do what they were supposed to do.

 

[Truman]

This logic fails in the church because many Christians ignore the fact that the dirty cup signifies that it's also dirty inside, and so they rationalize having a dirty cup all the time. They need to realize that a dirty cup indicates it's dirty, both, on the inside and the outside. This is the point they miss in the analogy. They miss it to their own destruction.

Getting clean inside is a process, at least it has been for me.

 

[Addy]

Could you not have picked the issue we agree on complete with PICNIC and CELEBRATION??

I think BB covers this dilemma in post #45. Those who think they are getting away with sin = abusing God's grace will have to answer for their behaviour... as BB put it... God will NOT be mocked.

Yes we can clearly see by the fruit if a person is living a peace and joy filled life... Sin always brings misery... and NO one gets away with it...

Our disagreement Ferris is whose job it is to JUDGE an UNFINISHED vessel... which we ALL are. AGAIN... God looks at the inside of the cup as Truman so eloquently stated... and man looks at outward appearance... Legalism breeds pride and self-righteousness... it also breeds hypocrisy... so I'll stick to how I see things... Last chance for a free picnic!!!!!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Happy Labour Day.

No, it's 'labor' day, lol.

 

[amigo de christo]

Apart from Christ There is none righteous . Have all faith in Christ and learn the biblical Jesus well and all sound doctrine .
For sin has hardened and can harden many a heart .

 

[DPMartin]

This is CORRECT.... often times... too often... the brethren are giving themselves permission to correct those who already know they have fallen short. WE do have the right to work out our own salvation without 80 fingers pointing at us stating that we have sinned.

why not? because you don't like it? is that what it is?

 

[Addy]

I would never insist that someone who has the job of being in God's business of saving and redeeming those He saves adopt this attitude. It may be suited for you and I, personally, but not for someone God has ordained to be an instrument through which he calls people out. Fruit inspecting is a legitimate spiritual ministry given to some among us. We can't say that no one is allowed to do that work. That would be wrong. And that is the problem. Not enough people who are supposed to be doing that work have been doing that work! They will one day explain to God why they did not do what they were supposed to do.

And that is the CHURCH as a whole's fault.... that is due to a ton of FALSE teaching. I agree that biblical correction is healthy. What is being expressed within these forums for the most part is simply the result of legalistic teaching. Anyways... .I'm done here... LOL

 

[farouk]

Getting clean inside is a process, at least it has been for me.

@Truman the Levite I think from Scripture that sanctification is both positional - Paul addresses believers in the Lord Jesus Christ as saints (those who are sanctified) - and by way of day to day condition: the daily walk with the Lord.

 

[Addy]

why not? because you don't like it? is that what it is?

Sorry DP... you missed the party... I am done here... LOL

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Our disagreement Ferris is whose job it is to JUDGE an UNFINISHED vessel... which we ALL are.

I'm assuming you mean 'judge' as in 'call it what it is' and not 'condemn them to hell'. To an extent all of us have this job of calling out sin, but only to this extent...

"If your brother sins against you,c go and confront him privately. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’" Matthew 18:15-16
​

After that, it's a matter for the church leadership to deal with. We've not been given the job of church discipline and putting people out of the church. But surely some have been ordained to perform that task.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Getting clean inside is a process, at least it has been for me.

I'm not sure I can relate to this. I'd have to think about it. I relate more to my outer man being more where the process is taking place.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

On this we agree.... CAN we just stop here and have a picnic to CELEBRATE?? LOL

Oops! Too late. I'm just now reading this, lol.