Heresy within Christianity

[Yehren]

After saying all that you have never looked to see how poorly American students stack up against the students in other countries.

We actually have data on that, based on identical math and science tests. Out of about 40 nations, where do you think we fit in?

Don't notice the number of our youth that are embracing this crazy form of socialism that is be pushed on us by the democrats.....scared of cow pooh!

It's not about socialism. It's about how well our kids do in science and math. I'm not sure how the last round of testing went... (I'll see...)
Math:

Grade 8 is the last year that all nations have all students in academic tracks; after 8th, many nations track lower-scoring students into technical/trade training. Notice also that the United States is far ahead of any nation but Canada with a immigrant population over 10% of the total population. (refer to CIA World Factbook)

Science:

Pretty much like math. We're above average in both, even with a very large immigrant population. Not good enough; we aren't doing as well with immigrant kids as Canada is doing. That needs work.

 

[Yehren]

Japan, seeing a lack of creativity an innovation in many of its public school graduates, has implemented reforms to be more like the American system...

Under such a situation, the students learned faithfully the textbooks. The students who memorize and understand the textbooks got higher grades. Fostering creativity was not so important goal in ordinary public schools, excepting some private schools and attached schools of Faculty of Education. However, a lot of problems, that involve environmental, social, informational, educational, humanistic, moral problems, were occurred when the society of Japan was matured and the differences between Japan and European/American countries were shrunk too much. In some small areas or regions, for example, science and technology, it is decreasing the models to learn from these countries. Japan has to make new models. It requires “Creativity” in Japan’s Education. In order to solve the problems, a new national curriculum was introduced in all of Japan’s public education at the beginning of April 2002. It includes "Period of Integrated Study" that has no textbook, no guidelines. Teachers have to make original curriculums that fit to each student.

There was a tendency for school education to emphasize volume of knowledge. Now however, the school education looks itself from the children's standpoint and places a high value on the development of children's intellectual interests and inquiring minds. It also emphasizes the importance of motivating children to learn and helping them develop abilities to learn, to reason, to judge, to express, to discover and to solve problems, to create and to cope with social changes independently. Besides, to aim at children's successful self-realization, it is indispensable to relate knowledge with actual life. This requires the promotion of the hands-on learning and problem-solving approaches.
http://dyumiken.com/MID/world/Edu-reformJapan2002.pdf

 

[Grailhunter]

We actually have data on that, based on identical math and science tests. Out of about 40 nations, where do you think we fit in?



It's not about socialism. It's about how well our kids do in science and math. I'm not sure how the last round of testing went... (I'll see...)
Math:

Grade 8 is the last year that all nations have all students in academic tracks; after 8th, many nations track lower-scoring students into technical/trade training. Notice also that the United States is far ahead of any nation but Canada with a immigrant population over 10% of the total population. (refer to CIA World Factbook)

Science:

Pretty much like math. We're above average in both, even with a very large immigrant population. Not good enough; we aren't doing as well with immigrant kids as Canada is doing. That needs work.

The story gets a lot worse than this. A lot worse. Do some digging if you wish and see what you find.

 

[Yehren]

The story gets a lot worse than this. A lot worse. Do some digging if you wish and see what you find.

I'm showing you an apples-to-apples comparison. You can't do better than identical tests.

• 
  
  

And yes, in some parts of the country, very conservative states, or those with very large immigrant populations have much poorer results. But then in less conservative states or states with few immigrants, the results are up there with East Asian nations. Common core basically took results from the more successful states, and recommended them to lower-performing states.

 

[Grailhunter]

I guess it is a matter of where you look...lol...I have said my peace...now it is up to you....do as you wish

U.S. academic achievement lags that of many other countries

https://www.usnews.com/news/educati...in-math-reading-science-on-international-exam

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...e3b37c-153d-11ea-9110-3b34ce1d92b1_story.html

PISA 2015 Worldwide Ranking - average score of math, science and reading - FactsMaps

 

[Yehren]

From your link...

Younger American students fare somewhat better on a similar cross-national assessment, the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study. That study, known as TIMSS, has tested students in grades four and eight every four years since 1995. In the most recent tests, from 2015, 10 countries (out of 48 total) had statistically higher average fourth-grade math scores than the U.S., while seven countries had higher average science scores. In the eighth-grade tests, seven out of 37 countries had statistically higher average math scores than the U.S., and seven had higher science scores.

Now, the difference between the PISA tests and the TIMSS tests, is the TIMSS tests are identical in all nations. The PISA can't do this because they include language arts, social studies, and something called "financial literacy" which are different in different nations. So when we're comparing apples and oranges, instead of apples to apples, we don't do as well. That's kind of a revelation in itself, isn't it?

Most people who've looked at that discrepancy between tests, think it has to do with that 14% immigrant family issue. While math and science are relatively common over all nations, social studies and language differ a lot. And so we're at a particularly difficult position with social studies and language, while we shine in science and math.

I notice that from your PISA link...

The US is above average, even with language arts (reading) added in. In fact, it's 12.3 points from being in the top group. Given that large group of non-English-first-language students, that's more than a little impressive, isn't it? Apples to apples, remember.

I once had a student who had come from Mexico. She spoke very little English, but she had apparently gone to pretty good schools in Mexico. She struggled in most classes, but not mine. I taught science, mostly physical science, and so she was doing science and math in my class. The math was no problem for her, because it was just like in Mexico, and most scientific terms are commonly used everywhere. And I can speak a little Mexican-style Spanish. Think of the other classes (except math) as PISA, and science class as TIMSS. You see why her grades in my class were a better measure of achievement than her grades in other classes?

I'll agree that merely "above average" is not where we want to be. But given the demographics, we're surprisingly high in ranking. Only Canada does better with such a large number of immigrants.

 

[Yehren]

I get all that, but none of this answers the basic question about evolution - where is the evidential, directly observed and tested proof that one organism type has changed to another through evolution?

As you learned, there are many directly observed speciations. Even many creationists admit this fact, as you also learned. So for example, one type of plant evolved to a separate, reproductively isolated type by a polyploidy mutation. They aren't just a different type, they can't even hybridize, as many other, different types can do.

And your fellow YE creationists have admitted that there is "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory." Really no point in you denying the fact. Here's another:

Evolution is not a theory in crisis. It is not teetering on the verge of collapse. It has not failed as a scientific explanation. There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well.
...
Creationist students, listen to me very carefully: There is evidence for evolution, and evolution is an extremely successful scientific theory. That doesn't make it ultimately true, and it doesn't mean that there could not possibly be viable alternatives. It is my own faith choice to reject evolution, because I believe the Bible reveals true information about the history of the earth that is fundamentally incompatible with evolution. I am motivated to understand God's creation from what I believe to be a biblical, creationist perspective. Evolution itself is not flawed or without evidence. Please don't be duped into thinking that somehow evolution itself is a failure. Please don't idolize your own ability to reason.
The truth about evolution

 

[Grailhunter]

From your link...

Younger American students fare somewhat better on a similar cross-national assessment, the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study. That study, known as TIMSS, has tested students in grades four and eight every four years since 1995. In the most recent tests, from 2015, 10 countries (out of 48 total) had statistically higher average fourth-grade math scores than the U.S., while seven countries had higher average science scores. In the eighth-grade tests, seven out of 37 countries had statistically higher average math scores than the U.S., and seven had higher science scores.

Now, the difference between the PISA tests and the TIMSS tests, is the TIMSS tests are identical in all nations. The PISA can't do this because they include language arts, social studies, and something called "financial literacy" which are different in different nations. So when we're comparing apples and oranges, instead of apples to apples, we don't do as well. That's kind of a revelation in itself, isn't it?

Most people who've looked at that discrepancy between tests, think it has to do with that 14% immigrant family issue. While math and science are relatively common over all nations, social studies and language differ a lot. And so we're at a particularly difficult position with social studies and language, while we shine in science and math.

I notice that from your PISA link...

The US is above average, even with language arts (reading) added in. In fact, it's 12.3 points from being in the top group. Given that large group of non-English-first-language students, that's more than a little impressive, isn't it? Apples to apples, remember.

I once had a student who had come from Mexico. She spoke very little English, but she had apparently gone to pretty good schools in Mexico. She struggled in most classes, but not mine. I taught science, mostly physical science, and so she was doing science and math in my class. The math was no problem for her, because it was just like in Mexico, and most scientific terms are commonly used everywhere. And I can speak a little Mexican-style Spanish. Think of the other classes (except math) as PISA, and science class as TIMSS. You see why her grades in my class were a better measure of achievement than her grades in other classes?

I'll agree that merely "above average" is not where we want to be. But given the demographics, we're surprisingly high in ranking. Only Canada does better with such a large number of immigrants.

It is so much worse than that. I am not much for conspiracy theories but there are people on to them now. Once it is uncovered it will do down in history as the largest conspiracy ever. Time will tell.

 

[Yehren]

It is so much worse than that.

I'm looking at the data you presented, but even with language arts added, the U.S. is still above average. Not where we should want to be, but not in a bad position.

I am not much for conspiracy theories but there are people on to them now. Once it is uncovered it will do down in history as the largest conspiracy ever.

Finding data to support it will probably be the most important thing.

Time will tell.

Yes. The key is data. Do you have anything else?[/quote]

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm looking at the data you presented, but even with language arts added, the U.S. is still above average. Not where we should want to be, but not in a bad position.



Finding data to support it will probably be the most important thing.



Yes. The key is data. Do you have anything else?

[/QUOTE]
It is not just about the grades. Watch the news

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

As you learned, there are many directly observed speciations. Even many creationists admit this fact, as you also learned. So for example, one type of plant evolved to a separate, reproductively isolated type by a polyploidy mutation. They aren't just a different type, they can't even hybridize, as many other, different types can do.

And your fellow YE creationists have admitted that there is "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory." Really no point in you denying the fact. Here's another:

Evolution is not a theory in crisis. It is not teetering on the verge of collapse. It has not failed as a scientific explanation. There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well.
...
Creationist students, listen to me very carefully: There is evidence for evolution, and evolution is an extremely successful scientific theory. That doesn't make it ultimately true, and it doesn't mean that there could not possibly be viable alternatives. It is my own faith choice to reject evolution, because I believe the Bible reveals true information about the history of the earth that is fundamentally incompatible with evolution. I am motivated to understand God's creation from what I believe to be a biblical, creationist perspective. Evolution itself is not flawed or without evidence. Please don't be duped into thinking that somehow evolution itself is a failure. Please don't idolize your own ability to reason.
The truth about evolution

Yes but the Satanist love to peddle that we came from apes and all, just to bastardise and lower Man as just a beast and this is because the Atheist is a Beast, because such a one is not in contact with there own Soul, so they are devoid of God. so such a one is much like an Ape. so one who is devoid of Jesus Christ, one has to be carful of such people because they are clearly devoid of Grace, oh they talk the talk, we see many a Priest do that but they push a social doctrine and the majority just lap that worldly nonsense up, because it's the nature of carnal man to do so.

Oh I am a good trendy person, I will abide with what ever the trend is at the time to justify myself with my peers. that's what Jesus did ? he came and jumped into the septic tank with us and went with the flow. did you not know ? well no ! he came to offer to help you get out of the septic tank, but you had to understand what he was offering and reach out to him to drag you out.
Jesus offended such people who love to be in the septic tank, but because they see opportunity in that they can take advantage of others to drive the power of there ego and such is like a drug addict getting a hit with all they take advantage off.
I have seen this at hand, I look at the monkey go for it with all the cunning they can muster to get one to sign up to the deal, not to mention turn to me and abuse such a person for swallowing it all, they totally despise the person who put faith in them, not to mention that they are going to do anything to get away with anything they can as to the Law and you are dealing with one who knows the Law and plays it better than anyone, it's like a amateur taking on a pro.

You will never see one pushing evolution that's honest and open in the schools, it's always peddled with an angle that is totally opposed to anything Christian, not to mention full on make out that the Christian is totally devoid of the subject, well some maybe, but I have seen where the RCC wipes the floor with any such peddlers on the subject and clearly shows such people up as ignorant fools in light of the true Christian stance on the subject.
I remember the school I went to in the 1970's peddling that we came from apes and bagging anything Christian, the world revolves around subject you name it with total contempt and I was like hey fools have you shallow minded dupes ever bothered to study what the RCC has truly to say on any such subjects in depth, as they will wipe the floor with you ignorant dupes, fact was that I could see they were clearly misleading the class, as to what they were only indoctrinated about. oh yes half truths and diddling around with shallow content on a subject that ends up being just dribbling indoctrination that we had to swallow as facts. nonsense ! the RCC did not just come up with such things that they were just claims out of thin air, but this Mob diddled with the content skewing the content to try and make out that the RCC had no credibility.

 

[Paul Christensen]

As you learned, there are many directly observed speciations. Even many creationists admit this fact, as you also learned. So for example, one type of plant evolved to a separate, reproductively isolated type by a polyploidy mutation. They aren't just a different type, they can't even hybridize, as many other, different types can do.

And your fellow YE creationists have admitted that there is "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory." Really no point in you denying the fact. Here's another:

Evolution is not a theory in crisis. It is not teetering on the verge of collapse. It has not failed as a scientific explanation. There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well.
...
Creationist students, listen to me very carefully: There is evidence for evolution, and evolution is an extremely successful scientific theory. That doesn't make it ultimately true, and it doesn't mean that there could not possibly be viable alternatives. It is my own faith choice to reject evolution, because I believe the Bible reveals true information about the history of the earth that is fundamentally incompatible with evolution. I am motivated to understand God's creation from what I believe to be a biblical, creationist perspective. Evolution itself is not flawed or without evidence. Please don't be duped into thinking that somehow evolution itself is a failure. Please don't idolize your own ability to reason.
The truth about evolution

If evolution is not without evidence, then show me one even small piece of evidence that shows a definite transformation from one species kind to another. As long as you can't, you are just firing blanks.

 

[rockytopva]

Apologies for repeating a post, but I believe there are seven churches making up the one, all which will be sealed in the Lambs Book of Life....

Candlesticks - Seven church congregations
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

If this interpretation is not correct why all the ado?

1. Ephesus - Messianic - Obstained from the Gentiles
2. Smyrna - Martyr - The Foxes Book of Martyrs has the Roman Persecution as ten.
3. Pergamos - Orthodox- Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
4. Thyatira - Catholic - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
5. Sardis- Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
6. Philadelphia - period of revivals - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
7. Laodicea - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

These are very much different churches. If you read into the prophecy all have their issues. I believe, as all these churches are different, that we are all heretics in the eyes of some other congregation. Thank God for the Lord Jesus Christ, who alone is the one without heresy.

 

[rockytopva]

And... If there was such thing as a perfect church I would be afraid to go there, as I would make such a place imperfect. Father forgive me of sin and iniquity in Jesus name!

 

[face2face]

If evolution is not without evidence, then show me one even small piece of evidence that shows a definite transformation from one species kind to another. As long as you can't, you are just firing blanks.

Do you believe in an instantaneous creation?

 

[Paul Christensen]

Do you believe in an instantaneous creation?

No. I believe in creation over 6 days according to what the Bible says.

 

[Yehren]

If evolution is not without evidence, then show me one even small piece of evidence that shows a definite transformation from one species kind to another.

I just did. O. lamarkania to O. gigas. Two entirely different species, which can't reproduce with each other. Gigas evolved from lamarkania by a polyploid mutation.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I just did. O. lamarkania to O. gigas. Two entirely different species, which can't reproduce with each other. Gigas evolved from lamarkania by a polyploid mutation.

Ok. We have got the first stage of the scientific method, now we are confronted with the second stage. - lab testing to repeat it several times, before we can come up with a hypothesis. Has this been done?

 

[Taken]

If evolution is not without evidence, then show me one even small piece of evidence that shows a definite transformation from one species KINDto another. As long as you can't, you are just firing blanks.

Hit the nail on the head!

KIND

God Created KINDS if things.

Every KIND of thing EVOLVES, according to the true meaning of EVOLVE, (which is simply a development of "A KIND" of thing into a more complex form.)

Man Begins as a Seed, and Developes into a baby, a child, an adult, (maybe receives a Quickened spirit, maybe not), still a man KIND of Thing.

Same with animals.

Same with plants.

Man-KIND

Men Mixing ONE KIND of Seed with another KIND of Seed...is a Fail.
Men will never become Animals or Plants.
Animals will never become Man or Plants.
Plants will never become Man or Animals.

God Divided Men.
(Hebrews/Gentile's...Tribes/ Gentile's)
Men have Mixed themselves.
(The result, is they become neither Jew or Gentile)
God has a PLAN;
To further Divide Man.
First Dividing Israel...
Those believing IN God & the Messiah.
Those believing IN God and Christ Jesus their Messiah.
Division from unbelievers.
Second Dividing Gentile's...
Believers IN God, IN God & Christ Jesus the Messiah.
To Mix ISRAEL (Tribes) & Gentiles, and they become Neither (ISRAEL or Gentiles)...
Division from unbelievers.
Point IS: the EVOLVING development DOES NOT CHANGE the Man, into something other than a Man.
Israel does Not BECOME Gentile's.
Gentile's Do NOT BECOME Israel.
They Each Remain Men, with AN EVOLVED "STATUS";
1) EVOLVED (developed) from children OF God,
to "sons of God"
2) EVOLVED (developed) from ISRAEL and Gentiles, to "saints".

Animals - KIND

Land beasts, Sea, Air.
Require Air, cloven hoof, chew cud, birth live, lay eggs...KINDS of animals are taught in Scripture. "Species" EVOLVE (develop), when two of the same KIND of animals BREED, and produce an offspring, a new species of the Same KIND of animal.

(WHICH by the way, lends Flood deniers to a misunderstanding of HOW Noah got Every KIND of animal into the Ark!
First, KINDS of animals were taken aboard the Ark...NOT every species! Which amounted to a couple hundred, not thousands of animals.)

Plants -
Cross pollinate, become a new species, not a new KIND.

In Brief:
Darwin wrote about his THEORY on the "Origin of SPECIES"...(dubbed as the Eveloution of Man).
Some Scientists run with the Theory: making acknowledgements between Similar Characteristics of Man AND Animals.
Further Scientific studies with the introduction of DNA (Deoxyribonucleic acid ), a complex molecule, required for reproduction, furthers the Science studies...of Finding Similar/Same DNA molecules in Man and Animals.

(STOP THE PRESSES!!!)
"Man and Animals must be of the "SAME" Species..."SAME" KIND of thing, one "EVOLVING" from the "other"" <--- LOL!


Man AND Animals CAME FROM THE SAME ONE CREATED (existing) Earth...
The Same Dust, Elements, Minerals IN the Earth, are IN the Bodies of Man and Animals!
The Same Elements, Minerals IN the Earth "Sustain" (developed and keep alive) both Man an Animals...while Each Remains a Completely different KIND of thing, with Similar "Characteristics". ( which probably has a little something to do with they each (man and animals, not plants) have Gods Breath of LIFE / soul... (sarcasm)... for the unbelieving Scientist! )

Yes... Every living man-KIND and Animal-KIND of thing Naturally EVOLVES (from immature to a mature complex form)...
Animals can produce an offspring of another Species.
Man-KIND does NOT reproduce an other species.

A Natural MAN can become A Spiritual MAN...
Only BY the Power of God planting HIS SEED in a man's natural spirit, in a man's new heart. (A New Heart; Also EFFECTED / Given a man as a gift from God). And the THING...is Still a MAN-KIND of thing.

In summary, Man-KIND, can not, does not EVOLVE into Another "species or KIND" of thing, by Nature or Man's Scientific efforts, or Even BY God...it is Still a man-Kind of thing.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Prayer Warrior]

We actually have data on that, based on identical math and science tests. Out of about 40 nations, where do you think we fit in?



It's not about socialism. It's about how well our kids do in science and math. I'm not sure how the last round of testing went... (I'll see...)
Math:

Grade 8 is the last year that all nations have all students in academic tracks; after 8th, many nations track lower-scoring students into technical/trade training. Notice also that the United States is far ahead of any nation but Canada with a immigrant population over 10% of the total population. (refer to CIA World Factbook)

Science:

Pretty much like math. We're above average in both, even with a very large immigrant population. Not good enough; we aren't doing as well with immigrant kids as Canada is doing. That needs work.

This is a very colorful display, but surely you know that there are more subjects than math and science. Not EVERY child will go into these fields. This display doesn't show what education should be in the U.S., and it doesn't show the MAIN problem.

The main problem with education in the U.S. is that the schools are watering down academic subjects and spending more and more time on what they call affective education. The word affective has to do with attitudes, beliefs, values and emotions. They're currently calling this trend Social and Emotional Learning (SEL). The States have developed, or are developing, lists of SEL competency levels called Performance Descriptors (i.e. behavioral objectives) to be used by the schools to teach and test the SEL competencies.

Do you want your grandchildren's values and beliefs TESTED/ASSESSED by their schools??? This is happening now throughout the U.S., not only through yearly assessments, but also through what is called "embedded assessment," which is used throughout the school day.

Several years ago, the state departments of education received federal grants to develop Statewide Longitudinal Data Systems that allow local schools to report info to the States on a daily basis, and this info also goes to the National Center for Education Statistics (U.S. Department of Education). From there, it can be used by third party vendors who express an interest in the info. These codes are very specific. I reviewed the 4000+ pages of codes for data elements at the federal level called the Common Education Data Standards (CEDS).

Parents have no control over what data is collected and who uses this data!
.