Heresy within Christianity

[Jay Ross]

I do have an M.A. in English so I can recognise a metaphor when I see one. But Genesis 1 is straight narrative from Someone who was there and was an eye-witness of the events.

A short lesson in English from an expert (ex-hasbeen; spert=drip under pressure):
That fellow barks like a dog - (simile)
That fellow is a dog in the way he eats - (metaphor)
The dog barks when it sees another dog - (narrative)
That dog is a real pooch! - (synonym)
When a burglar appears a good dog will bark but a bad dog won't - (antonym)

So, let's look at Genesis 1:1:
"God created the heavens and the earth" which figure of speech?
"God took dust from the ground, formed a man and breathed the breath of life into him" which figure of speech?
"Except you repent you will likewise perish" what figure of speech is this (narrative, metaphor, simile, synonym, antonym or direct speech)?

Given the examples of the figures of speech given in the above list, identify any metaphors in Genesis 1, stating the example and explaining why it is a metaphor.

Paul, I am not interested in your game at the moment.

In Genesis 1:1 that you quoted, the word "earth" is a metaphor if one were to go past the Literal reading of the verse, but i doubt that you would be looking at this verse this way.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Paul, I am not interested in your game at the moment.

In Genesis 1:1 that you quoted, the word "earth" is a metaphor if one were to go past the Literal reading of the verse, but i doubt that you would be looking at this verse this way.

I find your response very interesting. I thought it was a very simple exercise and not a game. It is a serious look at what exactly is a metaphor compared to straight narrative. I think your real reason is not that you don't know how to answer, but you don't want to because it might reveal that your "metaphor" view of the Bible may be suspect.

I wasn't insulting your intelligence, but to show you that a narrative is a narrative and a metaphor is a metaphor.

My request is honest - show me anywhere in the Bible where what is stated is a metaphor. But if you don't want to answer, that is okay.

 

[Grailhunter]

Science...some see it as the fly in the ointment.
First I need to remind some that we are on a worldwide internet forum...communicating through satellites over 20,000 miles in space. Some maybe using smart phones and tablets that have a thousand times the computing power than the computers used to send man to the moon.

And that is just one of the points....it is time to think about someone other than ourselves. Like our children and Christianity. Some of us are older, we can lean on our Ford pickup that has over 32 processors in it while we talk on our Smart phone or watch the super bowl on it, while telling someone that science is all lies! If our children are sick we can take them to the technology building better know as the hospital and get them medical attention from professional persons of science...but say they do not know anything either. Of course some have got fancy and selectively deny science.

For some of us, none of that matters. Some of us have grown up juggling inconsistent and incongruent realities. Science is all bunk, doctors do not know anything, the world is flat, Man will never fly or go out in outer space. And that is ok for a lot of people....Deny reality and believing in the Bible...no contradictions! Ahhh! It is all good, especially for those that have juggled their Smart phones and the Bibles for years. And that is ok, religion is about beliefs...and they vary.

For many, this is no harm, the real problem is with the children and young adults...preaching what appears to be a fantasy compared to the world they live in, can cause a lot of them to walk away. Mommy and daddy living in a fantasy world does not give credence to their religious beliefs. The Lord of the Rings is a much more interesting fantasy.

The Bible was written for a primitive people to understand. Science doesn't know it all, but there is very little of it that the people of the biblical era would have understood. How could that of been explained to them? It is not like the Bible had a copyright on creation stories....if you look at the time period there are many texts that are similar.

More effective to teach young persons the path to salvation and the application of Christianity in the modern world, than try to convince them that everything around them is not real. Sons and daughters that are in technical professions, doctors, scientists, or astronauts that when they go home have to sit politely while their parents tell them that everything they learnt is a lie and not real. God is real, science is real, and we live in the real, best not to stick our head in the sand.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Science...some see it as the fly in the ointment.
First I need to remind some that we are on a worldwide internet forum...communicating through satellites over 20,000 miles in space. Some maybe using smart phones and tablets that have a thousand times the computing power than the computers used to send man to the moon.

And that is just one of the points....it is time to think about someone other than ourselves. Like our children and Christianity. Some of us are older, we can lean on our Ford pickup that has over 32 processors in it while we talk on our Smart phone or watch the super bowl on it, while telling someone that science is all lies! If our children are sick we can take them to the technology building better know as the hospital and get them medical attention from professional persons of science...but say they do not know anything either. Of course some have got fancy and selectively deny science.

For some of us, none of that matters. Some of us have grown up juggling inconsistent and incongruent realities. Science is all bunk, doctors do not know anything, the world is flat, Man will never fly or go out in outer space. And that is ok for a lot of people....Deny reality and believing in the Bible...no contradictions! Ahhh! It is all good, especially for those that have juggled their Smart phones and the Bibles for years. And that is ok, religion is about beliefs...and they vary.

For many, this is no harm, the real problem is with the children and young adults...preaching what appears to be a fantasy compared to the world they live in, can cause a lot of them to walk away. Mommy and daddy living in a fantasy world does not give credence to their religious beliefs. The Lord of the Rings is a much more interesting fantasy.

The Bible was written for a primitive people to understand. Science doesn't know it all, but there is very little of it that the people of the biblical era would have understood. How could that of been explained to them? It is not like the Bible had a copyright on creation stories....if you look at the time period there are many texts that are similar.

More effective to teach young persons the path to salvation and the application of Christianity in the modern world, than try to convince them that everything around them is not real. Sons and daughters that are in technical professions, doctors, scientists, or astronauts that when they go home have to sit politely while their parents tell them that everything they learnt is a lie and not real. God is real, science is real, and we live in the real, best not to stick our head in the sand.

You made a really good post and I enjoyed reading it.

The science that you are describing is operational science. This is the science that shows how everything works. This is the science that shows the truth of how things happen, through observation and laboratory experimentation. Operational science does not oppose the Bible. It shows how what is described in the Bible works.

You are correct. The Bible is not a comprehensive science text. It is God's spoken record of who He is, how the world and man came into being, why there is sin, disease, and suffering in the world, and God's plan to restore humanity back into fellowship with Him. In the process, we have historical science through the Old Testament narratives, and the gospels about the life of Christ. Other types of historical science are archaeology, forensic science, palaeontology, historical linguistics, etc. Historical science, as does operational science, supports the Bible, and this is becoming clearer as more discoveries are made.

But origin science is more difficult to substantiate through observation, because no scientist was there at the origin of the cosmos, the world, and mankind. And no scientific experimentation is possible. So there are only two ways origin science can explain the origin of the universe:
1. Evolution in which everything was created out of nothing and slowly formed over millions of years. There is evidence that evolutionists use, and they interpret that evidence in certain ways.
2. Creation, based on the record of the literal Bible account, This involves the belief in a creator who designed the DNA instructions for all the plants, organisms, and animals, plus man.

To be honest, either way depends on faith. This is the type of faith that we have when we get into our motor car and believe that we can get from A to B without getting killed in an accident; it is also faith in the airline pilot when we get into a plane and fly from one city to another; also it is the faith we have in our spouse that he or she loves us and wants to continue living with us. It all depends on who or what we put our trust in. We are exercising faith all the time - as soon as we get up out of bed in the morning, until we go to bed at night, and then we trust that we will wake up in the morning.

So, what makes the more common sense? The computer you are looking at created out of absolutely nothing? Or that it was designed by someone intelligent to put the parts together and program it so you can take part in this forum?

What I am doing here is just to make people think.

 

[Grailhunter]

You made a really good post and I enjoyed reading it.

The science that you are describing is operational science. This is the science that shows how everything works. This is the science that shows the truth of how things happen, through observation and laboratory experimentation. Operational science does not oppose the Bible. It shows how what is described in the Bible works.

You are correct. The Bible is not a comprehensive science text. It is God's spoken record of who He is, how the world and man came into being, why there is sin, disease, and suffering in the world, and God's plan to restore humanity back into fellowship with Him. In the process, we have historical science through the Old Testament narratives, and the gospels about the life of Christ. Other types of historical science are archaeology, forensic science, palaeontology, historical linguistics, etc. Historical science, as does operational science, supports the Bible, and this is becoming clearer as more discoveries are made.

But origin science is more difficult to substantiate through observation, because no scientist was there at the origin of the cosmos, the world, and mankind. And no scientific experimentation is possible. So there are only two ways origin science can explain the origin of the universe:
1. Evolution in which everything was created out of nothing and slowly formed over millions of years. There is evidence that evolutionists use, and they interpret that evidence in certain ways.
2. Creation, based on the record of the literal Bible account, This involves the belief in a creator who designed the DNA instructions for all the plants, organisms, and animals, plus man.

To be honest, either way depends on faith. This is the type of faith that we have when we get into our motor car and believe that we can get from A to B without getting killed in an accident; it is also faith in the airline pilot when we get into a plane and fly from one city to another; also it is the faith we have in our spouse that he or she loves us and wants to continue living with us. It all depends on who or what we put our trust in. We are exercising faith all the time - as soon as we get up out of bed in the morning, until we go to bed at night, and then we trust that we will wake up in the morning.

So, what makes the more common sense? The computer you are looking at created out of absolutely nothing? Or that it was designed by someone intelligent to put the parts together and program it so you can take part in this forum?

What I am doing here is just to make people think.

Never said....something created out of nothing.....
God the Father created everything.
The atom looks like a solar system....solar system looks like a galaxy.....galaxy looks like a universe.
Things created and made by God.....just a little more complex than zap.
And making people think is a good thing....

 

[XRose]

But that is like so much. all assumption. And we know what happens when we assume. There is lots left out of the bible, one day we will know.

without knowing how many twins, triplets etc were born to Adam and Eve and their generations until Adam died at 930 the population could easily have been Population in 930 = 7,407,807,940.
Follow this through and by 1650 The Flood could have drowned
Population in 1650 = 697,742,399
Or allow them good fertility and by the flood it would be 19,304,497,205,760,000. nineteen thousand trillion?

Obviously this higher total is impossible due to the fact that the Nephilim were warring among themselves, ruining the earth and eating humans.

 

[XRose]

No. That's what racists will tell you, but it's wrong. There are no genetic human races. There is more genetic variability in any "race" you might define than there is between them.
No, for the reason I just showed you. Evolutionary theory has shown that there are no biological human races, but into the 1990s, creationists like ICR director Henry Morris was still blathering about the supposed intellectual and spiritual inferiority of black people:

This is not to say that all YE creationists are racists and eugenicists. Most are not. It merely demonstrates that racism among the YE creationist leadership has been a problem at a time when evolutionary theory has debunked both racism and eugenics.

Meanwhile out in the real world James Watson's meticulous research proves what human observation and the Bible says: Black races are descended from Ham and have an IQ that averages 70:
James Watson’s most inconvenient truth: Race realism and the moralistic fallacy

 

[XRose]

It's directly observed. They, and only they, have put their salvation at risk by being creationists.

Better to be a Creationist headed for eternal life with Jesus than a walking dead evolutionist following Satan?

 

[XRose]

Show me one organism that is exactly the same in the fossil record as it is today. What do you have.
But YE creationists are not very open to evidence, and it doesn't matter what evidence is produced, their dogmatism will blind them to it.

Yehren, your idol Satan is delighted you worship him so assidiously as to prattle and believe the nonsense you post.
However you ask for an organism that is exactly the same as fossils of it?
OK. Grow up and research Ceolocanths that supposedly lived and died out 300 -OOPS! 400 MYA!

Then try switch on than Neanderthal peanut you have for a brain and answer me this: Meticulous research by me and another proves worms build topsoil at the rate of one inch per five years. Therefore if Ceolocanths died out 400 MYA and presumably lived many more MY then over say 420 MY the worms should have built up 420,000,000 divided by 5 - 84,000,000 inches of topsoil. So with your infinitesimal wisdom kindly tell us where that topsoil is or went to?

 

[XRose]

That's what evolution is.

Nope. For example, H. sapiens is the same today than it was just a six thousand years ago when GOD created Adam.
It's pretty clear that you don't even know what it is. As Everett Dirkson remarked, "People are usually down on things they aren't up on."
But Old Earth Evolutionists are not very open to evidence, and it doesn't matter what evidence is produced, their dogmatism will blind them to it.

You surely meant to write:
H. sapiens is the same today than it was just a six thousand years ago when GOD created Adam.
It's pretty clear that you don't even know that Everett Dirkson described you: "People are usually down on things they aren't up on."
But Old Earth Evolutionists are not very open to evidence, and it doesn't matter what evidence is produced, their dogmatism will blind them to it.

And excuse me asking but why is a follower of Satan like yourself on a Christianity forum?
There are plenty of occult forums for you to follow.

 

[Yehren]

Show me one organism that is exactly the same in the fossil record as it is today. What do you have?
But YE creationists are not very open to evidence, and it doesn't matter what evidence is produced, their dogmatism will blind them to it.

Yehren, your idol Satan is delighted you worship him so assidiously as to prattle and believe the nonsense you post.

Calm yourself, and think what you're posting. I suppose it's a violation of the TOS to call other Christians "Satanists"; you should be more careful to be honest and Christian on this site. I won't turn you in, but other people might.

However you ask for an organism that is exactly the same as fossils of it?
OK. Grow up and research Ceolocanths that supposedly lived and died out 300 -OOPS! 400 MYA!

Neither of the two species of coelacanths known today are found in the fossil record. They have evolved to be deep sea fish, from ancestors that were smaller, fresh water species. Try again?

Then try switch on than Neanderthal peanut you have for a brain

Actually, Neandertals had larger brains than humans do today.

and answer me this: Meticulous research by me and another proves worms build topsoil at the rate of one inch per five years. Therefore if Ceolocanths died out 400 MYA and presumably lived many more MY then over say 420 MY the worms should have built up 420,000,000 divided by 5 - 84,000,000 inches of topsoil.

If there was no such thing as erosion. But there is. The Mississippi Delta formed from all that topsoil, for example. There's millions of cubic kilometers of such sediment along the underwater shelves of all the continents.

So with your infinitesimal wisdom kindly tell us where that topsoil is or went to?

Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

 

[Yehren]

You surely meant to write:
H. sapiens is the same today than it was just a six thousand years ago when GOD created Adam.

Altering someone's posts, and pretending that's what they actually wrote, is surely a violation of TOS. It's definitely not a Christian thing to do. Is that the message you want to give us? Again, I won't report you, but someone else might. And now, you've told anyone who cares to notice, that you traffic in falsehoods.

 

[Yehren]

Better to be a Creationist headed for eternal life with Jesus than a walking dead evolutionist following Satan?

Better yet to be an evolutionist walking with Jesus. You can be a creationist and be saved, no less than a Christian who is an evolutionist; God doesn't care what you think of the way He created things. He does care about your behavior toward others. Think about it. It could be critical to your eternal life.

 

[XRose]

Altering someone's posts, and pretending that's what they actually wrote, is surely a violation of TOS. It's definitely not a Christian thing to do. Is that the message you want to give us? Again, I won't report you, but someone else might. And now, you've told anyone who cares to notice, that you traffic in falsehoods.

You call GOD's truth falsehoods! Satan delights in your adulations.
As for altering post etc... you obviously lack understanding as my alterings were to show WHAT YOIU ACTUALLY MEANT TO WRITE - not what you wrote. It's called spiritual correction.

 

[XRose]

Better yet to be an evolutionist walking with Jesus. You can be a creationist and be saved, no less than a Christian who is an evolutionist; God doesn't care what you think of the way He created things. He does care about your behavior toward others. Think about it. It could be critical to your eternal life.

Calling GOD and Jesus liars may please your hero Satan but will see you destroyed in the run-up to Armageddon or during it.
You lack holy spirit as it is given by GOD not Satan.

 

[XRose]

[QUOTE="Yehren, post: 711480, member: 8363"[/QUOTE]
As for your falsehoods I notice you have not responded to my post about CEOLOCANTHS and WORMS?
It's definitely not a Christian thing to do. Need more time?

 

[Yehren]

So, if you can answer this question: Where did our seven day week come from,

The Sumerians. Abraham, as you might recall, was from Sumeria. The Sumerians, being moon-worshipers, set a week as seven days, because that is the approximate length of time for one quarter of the moon's cycle.

The four principal phases of the Moon are new moon, first quarter, full moon, and third quarter (also known as last quarter)

A month was one full cycle of the moon. Abraham kept that calendar, although he ceased to put any religious notions on it, if he ever did. So God used seven days as the symbol for completion of creation.

and that each day is 24 hours?

It's not precisely 24 hours, and it was shorter in the past. The recession of the moon (a very tiny, but measurable increase in distance from the Earth, is caused by the increase in kinetic energy of the Moon, taken from the Earth by tidal friction. This gradually slows the rotation of the Earth. Fossil tidal rhythmites show that the day was much shorter millions of years ago.

 

[Yehren]

Calling GOD and Jesus liars

I would prefer to think you are merely mistaken, not actually calling God a liar. (Jesus is God, BTW)

may please your hero Satan

Remember what I told you? Getting angry and making false accusations might feel good at the moment,but then you have to live with what you have done forever. It's a bad idea. Calm yourself and do the right thing.

 

[Yehren]

In other words, God is not saying the light didn't exist at all until the fourth day, he just didn't let it shine through our atmosphere until the fourth day. Before the fourth day there was nothing but darkness on the face of the deep, simply because the light he created was blocked from shining on earth.

That is your addition to God's word. It's a bad idea. Let it be His way, not yours.

 

[101G]

The Bible literally says it, I believe it, and that's it. The Holy Spirit inside of me confirmed it, so I am adamant about it and implacable in my belief that all six days were 24hr days. So any argument against it will be like water off a duck's back! So, bring it on!

GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for the reply, second, the Holy Spirit inside of you confirmed that the day is 24hrs? correct. what did the Lord Jesus say? who suppose to be inside you. but before you answer hear him again, John 11:9 "Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world". now if the Holy Spirit is telling you one thing and the Lord Jesus is saying another, then I question what "spirit" is confirming this in you. for I know that the Holy Spirit is the Lord Jesus himself and he is not divided nor confused.

so when I hear these types of statement I'll leave you to Revelation 22:11 for now.

PICJAG.