HERESY?

[Bible Highlighter]

Yet you have one Seriously BIG problem...
The term Trinity is completely missing from ALL Scripture! All!!!

What is eternal life?

Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

Joh 17:3
Αυτη δε εστιν η αιωνιος ζωη ινα γινωσκωσιν σε τον

SAME YET IS THE eonian LIFE THAT THEY-MAY-BE-KNOWING YOU THE

μονον αληθινον θεον και ον απεστειλας ιησουν χριστον

ONLY TRUE God AND WHOM YOU-commission JESUS ANOINTED

It is and was important to Jesus that we understand and know the only true God. That is what this is all about. To seek and know the only true God, The Father! The Father tells us the only way we can know him is through his Son, Jesus!

Jesus who is our lord and King through Agency as He sits at the right Hand of the Father. Jesus is not the source of his authority... The source is the Father. Jesus is the mediator between the one God the Father and Man, there is no other.

Paul tells you this fact!

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one.

Yet you say... "However, if a person rejects the truth of the Trinity, then I would say it is soul damning because it falls into the realm of worshiping God in spirit and in truth."

Yet you fail to follow the pattern Jesus taught...

If we may let our Lord and King have the final word. Jesus plainly states, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be his worshipers. God is spirit; and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:23-24). Who does Jesus declare are the "true worshipers"? He insists, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father…" If we would be amongst the true worshipers we must be with Jesus worshiping this Father. Evidently, those like you who worship "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, three persons in one God," Are not said by Jesus to be the true worshippers. Those who worship the Father as the "only true God" are. The worshipper of the One God, the Father, as Jesus’ own affirmation that he is the true worshipper.

You need to stop following the traditions of men... Your Pastor will not be standing next to you when you are judged by God on these matters!!!
I'm trying to help you!
Paul

I believe a person can initially be saved without knowing about the Trinity (or Jesus being God), but once that truth is revealed to them, they cannot deny it. For Jesus said, to whom much is given, much is required.

Jesus said, "if ye believe not that I am [he],
ye shall die in your sins." (John 8:24).

57 "Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."
(John 8:57-59).

"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." (Exodus 3:14).

Jesus is the great "I AM."
The Jews went ape crazy nuts and wanted to stone Jesus when they heard Him say that He was the great "I AM" from Exodus 3.

Jesus essentially was saying that if you do not believe He is the "I am," you will die in your sins. The word "he" is not in the Greek in John 8:24.

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him
must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:24).

"And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." (Luke 4:8).

We cannot worship false gods.

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe the Bible teaches the existence of the Nephilim. But I would not consider it to be heretical or soul damning if they did not believe in this truth taught in the Bible. However, if a person rejects the truth of the Trinity, then I would say it is soul damning because it falls into the realm of worshiping God in spirit and in truth. In other words, we cannot worship false gods and be saved.

I agree.
A heresy is a belief that changes a basic Christian tenet.

Otherwise, every little matter we disagree about would be a heresy, and this is not the case.

 

[Enoch111]

A heresy is a belief that changes a basic Christian tenet.

And the most fundamental Christian tenet is that Jesus is God who became sinless Man to die for our sins. So anyone who denies the deity of Christ -- which is a part of "the doctrine of Christ" -- is an antichrist. See the second epistle of John.

 

[GodsGrace]

And the most fundamental Christian tenet is that Jesus is God who became sinless Man to die for our sins. So anyone who denies the deity of Christ -- which is a part of "the doctrine of Christ" -- is an antichrist. See the second epistle of John.

I agree.
And they are not considered to be Christian.
And I also agree that they are antiChrist.

 

[Pierac]

Do you know why? It is to separate the scoffers and naysayers from the believers. And you are one of the scoffers. Believers have no problem with the triune Godhead (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

So... which triune Godhead... Is the God of Jesus???

John 8:40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God: this Abraham did not do.

Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God
performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him

Joh 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

Again.... which triune Godhead... Is the God of Jesus???

 

[GodsGrace]

So... which triune Godhead... Is the God of Jesus???

John 8:40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God: this Abraham did not do.

Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God
performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him

Joh 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

Again.... which triune Godhead... Is the God of Jesus???

Easy answer.
The Father.
Jesus the human, was here with us.

So easy to understand.

If one wants to.

 

[Pierac]

Easy answer.
The Father.
Jesus the human, was here with us.

So easy to understand.

If one wants to.

Really? So you actually believe as I do. That there is only one God... taught by Jesus as His/Our Father and.... the only true God whom He serves!

I'm glad you admit Jesus serves and has a GOD!

This fits well with Psalms 110:1

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."

Psalms 110:1 is a unusual verse. It is referred to in the New Testament 23 times and is thus quoted much more often than any other verse from the Old Testament. It’s importance must not be overlooked. It is a psalm that tells us the relationship between God and Jesus.

Psalms 110:1 is a divine utterance although poorly translated if your version leaves out the original word "oracle". It is “the oracle of Yahweh” (the One God of the Hebrew Bible, of Judaism and New Testament Christianity) to David's lord who is the Messiah, spoken of here 1000 years before he came into existence in the womb of the Virgin Mary.

I want to bring attention to the fact that David's lord is not David's Lord. There should be no capital on the word "lord." The Revised Version of the Bible (1881) corrected the misleading error of other translations which put (and still wrongly put) a capitol L on lord in that verse.

He is not Lord God, because the word in the inspired text is not the word for Deity, but the word for human superior- a human lord, not a Lord who is himself God, but a lord who is the supremely exalted, unique agent of the one God.

The Hebrew word for the status of the son of God and Psalms 110:1 is adoni. This word occurs 195 times in the Hebrew Bible and never refers to God. When God is described as "the Lord" (capital L) a different word, Adonai, appears. Thus the Bible makes a careful distinction between God and man. God is the Lord God (Adonai), or when his personal name is used, Yahweh, and Jesus is his unique, sinless, virginally conceived human son (adoni, my lord, Luke 1:43; 2:11). Adonai is found 449 times in the Old Testament and distinguishes the One God from all others. Adonai is not the word describing the son of God, Jesus, and Psalms 110:1. adoni appears 195 times and refers only to a human (or occasionally an angelic) lord, that is, someone who is not God. This should cut through a lot of complicated post Biblical argumentation and create a making which in subtle ways that secures the simple and most basic Biblical truth, that God is a single person and that the Messiah is the second Adam, "the Man Messiah" (1 Tim. 2:5).

Let's have a look at a few Old Testament verses that show us the clear distinction alluded to here. In Genesis 15:2, Abraham prays to God and says, "O LORD, God [Adonai Yahweh], what will you give me, since I am childless?" In another prayer Abraham's servant addresses God: "O LORD, God of my lord Abraham, please grant me success today" (Gen. 24:12). The second word for "my lord" here is adoni which according to any standard Hebrew lexicon means "Lord," "Master," or "owner." Another example is found in David's speech to his men after he had cut off the hem of King Saul's robe and his conscience bothered him: "So he said to his men, far be it from me because of the Lord [here the word is Yahweh, Lord God] that I should do this thing to my lord [adoni].”

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, page 157. states… "The form Adoni (‘my lord’), a royal title (Sam. 29:8), is to be carefully distinguished from the divine title Adonai (‘Lord’) used of Yahweh. Adonai the special plural form [the divine title] distinguishes it from adoni [with short vowel] = ‘my lords.’” Hastings Dictionary of the Bible, vol. 3, page 137. States… “lord in the Old Testament is used to translate Adonai when applied to the Divine Being. The [Hebrew] word… has a suffix [with a special pointing] presumably for the sake of distinction... between divine and human appellative.” Wigram, The Englishman’s Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the Old Testament, p. 22. states…

“The form ‘to my lord,’ I’adoni, is never used in the Old Testament as a divine reference… the general excepted fact is that the masoretic pointing distinguishes divine reference (adonai) from human references (adoni).”

“The Hebrew Adonai exclusively denotes the God of Israel. It is attested about 450 times in the Old Testament…Adoni [is] addressed to human beings (Gen 44:7; Num 32:25; 2 Kings 2:19, etc.). We have to assume that the word Adonai received it’s special form to distinguish it from the secular use of adon [i.e. adoni]. The reason why [God is addressed] as Adonai [with long vowel] instead of the normal adon, adoni or adonai [short vowel] may have been to distinguish Yahweh from other gods and from other human Lord's.” from

Dictionary of deities and demons in the Bible, p. 531.

If David the Psalmist had expected the Messiah to be the Lord God he would not have used "my lord" (adoni), but the term used exclusively for the one God, Jehovah- Adonai. Unfortunately, though, many English translations which faithfully preserved this distinction elsewhere capitalize the second "lord" only in Psalms 110:1. This gives a misleading impression that the word is a divine title.

Occasionally, it will be objected that this distinction between Adonai and adoni was a late addition to the Hebrew text by the Mesorites around 600 to 700 AD and therefore is not reliable. This objection needs to be considered in the light of the fact that the Hebrew translators of the Septuagint (the LXX) around 250 B.C. recognize and carefully maintained this Hebrew distinction in their work. They never translated the second “lord” of Psalm 110:1 (“my lord,” kyrios mou) to mean the Deity. The first LORD of Psalm 110:1 (the LORD, Ho Kyrios) they always reserve for the one God, Jehovah.

Both the Pharisees and Jesus knew that this inspired verse was crucial in the understanding of the identity of the promised Messiah. Jesus quoted it to show the Messiah would be both the son (descendent) of King David and David's “lord” (see Matt. 22:41-46; Mark 12:35-37; Luke 20:41-44). This key verse, then, quoted more than any other in the New Testament, authorizes the title "lord" for Jesus. Failure to understand this distinction has led to the erroneous idea that whenever the New Testament calls Jesus "Lord" it means he is the Lord God of the Old Testament.

Your welcome... GodsGrace
Glad I could help you
Paul

 

[bbyrd009]

I agree.
A heresy is a belief that changes a basic Christian tenet.

well, unless all of our Christian tenets are false, right I know the wolves will rush in as soon as I leave…
.

Otherwise, every little matter we disagree about would be a heresy, and this is not the case

hmm, are you sure? How do you know? Pretty sure those are basically all irrelevant though, ya

I agree.
And they are not considered to be Christian.
And I also agree that they are antiChrist.

mmmkay…but imo dont forget we can exclude Catholics by the same process though, eh? inclusion is better than exclusion prolly, if they are not against us, they are for us

there is a weird connection to knowing and not hearing, and not knowing and hearing, i think; wish i could describe it without sounding so coy lol…anyway, there is a secret at the bottom of the Bible imo, whenever one is ready to handle it; but who is ready to hear that they are evil, and that is why they seek a blood covering? Esau sure wasnt i guess
Oh daughters of Jerusalem, do not find love until you are ready

how ya been gg? ltns!

 

[Pierac]

I agree.
And they are not considered to be Christian.
And I also agree that they are antiChrist.

Yet Our Jesus has a God! Both before and after His birth!

Perhaps it's you that is the antiChirst!

Because you have no idea what the title Christ actually means!!

Dr. Hugh Schonfield, in his book the Passover Plot. Reported that many Christians he spoke with were not even aware that the term "Christ" was simply a Greek translation of the Hebrew title Messiah, and thought somehow that it referred to the Second Person of the Trinity. "So connected had the word ‘Christ’ become with the idea of Jesus as God incarnate that the title ‘Messiah’ was treated as something curiously Jewish and not associated.”

N.T. Write, the Bishop of Litchfield, agrees: “One of the most persistent mistakes throughout the literature on Jesus and the last hundred years is to use the word ‘Christ,’ which simply means ‘Messiah’, as though it was a ‘divine’ title.” Who was Jesus? p.57.

According to its OT usage, the term Messiah, the Anointed One, indicates a call to office.

Most certainly, it was not the title of an aspect of the Godhead. This is a later Gentile invention that came about by ignoring Jesus’ Jewish context and inventing a doctrine called the Incarnation- the idea that a second member of the Trinity, God the son, became a human being. As Lockhart says, in Jesus the Heretic, p.137. “Christianity ignored the ‘Messiah’ and theologically worked the ‘Christ’ up into the ‘God-Man.’ Jesus as the ‘Messiah’ is a human being; Jesus as the ‘Christ’ is something entirely different.”

Jesus calls himself "a man" (John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. and the apostles call him "a man" (Acts 2: 22; 1 Tim. 2:5). Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know-- 1Ti 2:5 For there is one

God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, He is constantly contrasted with and distinguished from God, his Father.

The Hebrew Bible or OT, predicted Jesus would be a man (Is.53:3). But never does the scriptures use the term "God-Man" to tell us who Jesus is. The Greek language of the day had a perfectly good word for “God-Man” (theios aner) but it never appears in the New Testament. So why do we persist with these extra-biblical terms? Why do we continue to employ non-biblical (i.e. unbiblical) language to describe Jesus?

The Bible verse saying is true which says that we are very quick to spot the speck in the eye of another's theology, but how blind we are to the beam in our own. Mary is not the mother of God, according to the scriptures. And neither is Jesus God the Son, nor is he the "God-Man" according to the Bible. And he is nowhere called "God of from God" as the later Nicene Creed called him. Protestants, people of the Bible ought to know that the contentious extra-biblical word used at Nicea, homoousios, meaning ‘of equal substance,’ “did not come from Scripture but, of all things, from Gnostic systems.” Quote from Born Before All-Time? p. 500. Kuschel.

The result was that such terminology introduced alien notions into Christian understanding of God. In other words, "an epoch-making paradigm shift has taken place between Scriptures and Nicea.” Born Before All-Time? p. 503. Kuschel

To the Jewish mind, accustomed to Old Testament teaching on the principles of agency and representation by which God appoints a man to speak or act on his behalf, such a concept was both familiar and acceptable. Whilst it is true that some of Christ's enemies believed him to be usurping or laying claim unlawfully to certain Divine rights or powers, not a single Jew ever thought that the miracles performed by Christ proved that he was a Divine being, and the gospel record indicates that many recognised that he was a man Divinely appointed to exercise power and authority on God's behalf.

You don't even see what God is doing...? Yet... you claim you have the authority to preach and teach... THAT I'm the antiChirst!!! WOW... how blind you are to that you cannot see... The Truth!!!

 

[Pierac]

well, unless all of our Christian tenets are false, right I know the wolves will rush in as soon as I leave…
.
hmm, are you sure? How do you know? Pretty sure those are basically all irrelevant though, ya

mmmkay…but imo dont forget we can exclude Catholics by the same process though, eh? inclusion is better than exclusion prolly, if they are not against us, they are for us

there is a weird connection to knowing and not hearing, and not knowing and hearing, i think; wish i could describe it without sounding so coy lol…anyway, there is a secret at the bottom of the Bible imo, whenever one is ready to handle it; but who is ready to hear that they are evil, and that is why they seek a blood covering? Esau sure wasnt i guess
Oh daughters of Jerusalem, do not find love until you are ready

how ya been gg? ltns!

Finally to the real matter! Yes pretty much all your Christian tents are false! All of them...

What was the rhetorical question that Jesus ask... in Luke... will He find faith on the earth when he returns... I think Not!!!

Luk 18:7 now, will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them? 8 "I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?"

Jesus will not find faith from your Christian tenets... as it is written from old!
Paul

 

[Pierac]

I believe a person can initially be saved without knowing about the Trinity (or Jesus being God), but once that truth is revealed to them, they cannot deny it. For Jesus said, to whom much is given, much is required.

Jesus said, "if ye believe not that I am [he],
ye shall die in your sins." (John 8:24).

57 "Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."
(John 8:57-59).

"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." (Exodus 3:14).

Jesus is the great "I AM."
The Jews went ape crazy nuts and wanted to stone Jesus when they heard Him say that He was the great "I AM" from Exodus 3.

Jesus essentially was saying that if you do not believe He is the "I am," you will die in your sins. The word "he" is not in the Greek in John 8:24.

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him
must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:24).

"And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." (Luke 4:8).

We cannot worship false gods.

Did you actually come up with this crap? No, you just posted what you were told about this topic. You did no research what so ever... just put your thumb in your mouth and sucked away....

There has been quite a bit of discussion on John 8:58. What happened to this verse as to confuse so many? Let's start in Exodus.

KJV Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Now we shall read the same verse from the Greek Septuagint

Septuagint Exo 3:14 και ειπεν ο θεος προς μωυσην [εγω ειμι ο ων] και ειπεν ουτως ερεις τοις υιοις ισραηλ [ο ων] απεσταλκεν με προς υμας
Note the two separate Greek words used for 'am'

Concordant Literal Version Exo 3:14 Then Elohim spoke to Moses: I shall come to be just as I am coming to be. And He said: Thus shall you say to the sons of Israel, I-Shall-Come-to-Be has sent me to you. Now when translated literally you get a whole different look. What happened to the other I am's?

The Hebrew Bible uses the word (hâyâh H1961) in the place of "Am" which is a verb meaning to exist, to be.
Check the Strongs' number.

Clearly Jesus did not say (εγω ειμι ο ων) nor did he state (ο ων), in John 8:58. Jesus spoke the words (εγω ειμι) just like other people in the bible who are not God. So just what was Jesus saying?

But what about the great "I Am" statement of Jesus? You claim he Made... That classic one in John 8:58 where Jesus says, "Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born I am"?

Surely here Jesus makes the same claim for himself that Jehovah God made back in Exodus 3 where the LORD says to Moses at the burning Bush "I Am Who I Am." Surely Jesus is claiming to be the I AM of the Old Testament as Trinitarian belief asserts?

Now here is something very obvious that they never told you in church. This expression from Jesus' lips "I am" (Greek ego eimi) occurs throughout the Gospel of John and in no other text in John can it mean I AM, the God of the Old Testament.

Go back to John 4:25-26 for instance. The woman at the well said to Jesus, "I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ); when that one comes, he will declare all things to us." And Jesus said to her, "I who speak with you am he." You will notice that in most Bibles that word he is in italics. This means that the translators have correctly supplied a word in English that is not in the Greek but that nevertheless makes the intended sense quite clear. Here Jesus says to the woman - in the context of her question about the Messiah - that he is the Messiah, the Christ. "I who speak to you am he." In the Greek it reads ego eimi. Jesus simply says I am he, the Messiah. Definitely not “I am is the one speaking to you!”

In John 9 Jesus heals the blind man. Is this really the beggar who used to sit groping in the dark? Some people said, "Yes, it's him all right." Other said, "No, he just looks like him." But the beggar says, " ego eimi!" And the translators have no problem writing, "I am the one." So why aren't the translators consistent? Why not capitalize what this man says as I AM? Because it is clear that he is not claiming to be the God of the Old Testament. Saying "I am" (ego eimi) does not make somebody God in the Bible!


What Jesus is saying is simply “Before Abraham was born, I am he,” that is, "I am the Messiah."

Notice the context in John 8:56 where Jesus says, "Abraham rejoiced to see my day." By faith Abraham looked forward and saw the coming Messiah before he came in history. He believed the promise that God would send the Promised One. On the other hand these Jews did not believe that Jesus was their Messiah. They were claiming to be Abraham's descendents. Jesus said that this was impossible for they did not recognize him as their Messiah. But Jesus asserts that even before Abraham was born, he is the One who was always in God's plan. This Abraham believe and saw. The Messiah preexisted in God's plan and therefore in Abraham's believing mind, because he trusted the promise of God. Jesus positively did not say, before Abraham was, I was." Also, Jesus did not say, “Before Abraham was, I AM WHAT I AM."

The conclusion is inevitable. Jesus’ claim "Before Abraham was born, I am he" is the straightforward claim that he is the long promised one, the Messiah, the One in question. Jesus is the Savior in God's promise even before Abraham was born.

Jesus, NEVER claimed to be God and Jesus never said "I AM" apart from any others who said the same scripture!

So Bible Highlighter... you can let go of your ankles... Your Biblical spanking is complete!
Paul

 

[Pierac]

The Trinity

The Bible teaches that there is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4) (1 Timothy 2:5) (Isaiah 45:5).

Yet, the Bible also teaches that there are distinctions within the Godhead or that there is a plural nature to God.

Here are a couple of quick points:

#1. The word Elohim (אֱלֹהִ֔ים) is both a singular and a plural noun.
#2. God refers to Himself in plural form (Genesis 1:26) (Genesis 3:22) (Genesis 11:7) (Isaiah 6:8).
#3. Plurality of God in New Testament (Matthew 28:19) (2 Corinthians 13:14) (John 14:16-20).
#4. Introductions to both the Son & Holy Spirit (Daniel 7:9,10,13,14) (John 14:16)
#5. Different persons of Godhead appear at one time (Luke 3:21-22)
#6. Distinctions of Wills (Luke 22:42).
#7. Conversations Between the Godhead (Psalm 2:1-12) (Psalm 45:6-7) (Psalm 110:1) (Matthew 11:27) (John 17:24).​

Time to grab your spiritual ankles... you about to get Spanked again!!!

Elohim
Elohim has been a very confusing word for many people. The word elohim is used various ways in Scripture. It is not only used to describe the Almighty, but also individual pagan gods and even mighty human beings. Elohim may be translated as God, god, angels, judges, or even a human being who stands as God's representative or agent. For example, the sons of Heth address Abraham as "a mighty prince," the word for "mighty" being elohim (Genesis 23:6). Some translations have Abraham here being called "Prince of God." Take another instance. In Exodus 4, the Lord tells Moses that he "shall be as God" (elohim) to his brother Aaron. Moses will have God's words in his mouth, and will stand as God's representative before Aaron. Here is a case where an individual human is called elohim. Again in Exodus 7:1, the Lord says to Moses, "See, I make you God [elohim] to Pharaoh." No one dares to suggest that there is a plurality of persons within Moses because he is called elohim, that is, God's representative. The pagan god Dagon is also called elohim in the Hebrew Bible. The Philistines lamented that the God of Israel was harshly treating "Dagon our God [elohim]" (1 Sam. 5:7). Dagon was a single pagan deity. The same holds true for the single pagan god called Chemosh: “Do you not possess what Chemosh your god [elohim] gives you to possess?" (Jud. 11:24). The same for the single deity called Baal.


The Hebrew language has many examples of words which are plural but whose meaning is singular. In Genesis 23, Abraham's wife Sarah dies. The Hebrew text says, "the lives [plural] of Sarah were 127 years" (v. 1). Even the plural verb that accompanies the pronoun does not mean Sarah lived multiple lives. The Hebrews never taught reincarnation or plurality of personhood. Another example of this kind of anomaly in the Hebrew language is found in Genesis 43. After Joseph wept to see his brothers, we read that Joseph "washed his faces" (plural). This is another instance where in the Hebrew language the plural noun functions as a singular noun with a singular meaning, unless, of course, Joseph was a multi-faced human being! The same occurs in Genesis 16:8 where Hagar flees from "the faces" (plural) of her mistress Sarah. These are "anomalies" of the Hebrew language that are clearly understood by Hebrew scholars who rightly translate to a singular form in English.

The better explanation is that the Hebrews used a form of speech called "the plural of majesty." Put simply this means that someone whose position was warrant of dignity was spoken in this way as giving a sign of honor. The plural acted as a means of intensification:
Elohim must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and majesty.

Whenever the word elohim refers to the God of Israel the Septuagint uses the singular and not the plural. From Genesis 1:1 consistently right through, this holds true. The Hebrews who translated their own scriptures into Greek simply had no idea that their God could be more than one individual, or a multiple personal Being! This is true too when we come to the New Testament. The New Testament nowhere hints at a plurality in the meaning of elohim when it reproduces references to the One God as ho theos, the One God.

You can let go now...
Paul

 

[bbyrd009]

Finally to the real matter! Yes pretty much all your Christian tents are false! All of them...

What was the rhetorical question that Jesus ask... in Luke... will He find faith on the earth when he returns... I think Not!!!

Luk 18:7 now, will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them? 8 "I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?"

Jesus will not find faith from your Christian tenets... as it is written from old!
Paul

ha well im not sure it's that cut and dried? nor ezackly written, for that matter...dunno

 

[farouk]

Easy answer.
The Father.
Jesus the human, was here with us.

So easy to understand.

If one wants to.

@GodsGrace God in Three Persons has much Biblical evidence...

 

[farouk]

WHAT are you talking about?

My discussion with you ends here.

Learn some christian teachings please.

There comes a point when further discussion becomes fruitless when it's just so unBiblical...

 

[theefaith]

Not sure where this should be...
the study of God seemed appropriate (maybe).

Every denomination has some teaching or doctrine that we would not agree with.

How would you explain the difference between an
incorrect teaching
and
a heretical teaching...?

IOW,,,when does an incorrect teaching become heretical?

Thanks.

Interpretation provides meaning!

Meaning provides understanding!

Understanding produces unity!

Examples:

Text: a Fat sandwich man.

What does it mean: a fat man making sandwiches?

Or does it mean: a man making fat sandwiches?

No Hurry:

Does it mean we don’t have time so hurry up?

Or does it mean we got lots of time?

Seven spirits of God:

Does it mean there are seven holy spirits?
Or the seven gifts of the spirit?

Seven churches:

Does it mean there are seven churches?

Or the one church at seven different locations?

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Does it mean “faith alone”? “Accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior”?

Or does it mean the Christian sacrament of baptism?

Only the church who wrote the scripture in the first place has authority from Christ to interpret scripture! and teach all nations! Matt 28:19

 

[farouk]

I agree.
And they are not considered to be Christian.
And I also agree that they are antiChrist.

@GodsGrace John's First Epistle is indeed very searching. Especially since Father, Son and Holy Spirit feature so deeply in John's Gospel.

 

[Moriah's Song]

@GodsGrace - troll is on!

 

[Enoch111]

@GodsGrace - troll is on!

There is another thread waiting for trolls. I don't believe you are one, but if you wish to identify as such, who's to stop you?

 

[Moriah's Song]

There is another thread waiting for trolls. I don't believe you are one,

No I am definitely not a troll