HERESY?

[Aunty Jane]

What's the point of Jehovah's Witnesses coming on to a Christian forum when they reject all sound Christian doctrines? Surely there must be a JW forum somewhere.

Preaching to the converted accomplishes nothing....it just recycles and reinforces the lies. Who did Jesus and his apostles preach to? They had a message for their fellow Jews that largely fell on deaf ears because of the attitude you display. They worshiped the same God, but their leadership had steered them off course through the traditions that they introduced, making God’s word “invalid” because they gave it a different meaning. (Matthew 15:7-9)

Do you think you cannot learn anything? Do you think running away screaming “heretic” will do you any good? Counter the arguments and demonstrate that what you believe is solidly based in scripture...if you cannot do that then I suggest you do some serious study instead of these snide insults that simply expose your lack of knowledge and betray an insecurity about your own beliefs.

Consider all viewpoints and learn something. What you reject could be what Jesus is trying to teach you? Closing your mind never results in anything good. The truth can withstand all assaults, otherwise it isn’t the truth.

 

[Wrangler]

What's the point of Jehovah's Witnesses coming on to a Christian forum when they reject all sound Christian doctrines? Surely there must be a JW forum somewhere.

Pharisee. Luke 18:10-14

I am grateful for AJ’s contributions to this forum.

 

[GodsGrace]

I remember as kid even into adulthood I could not miss Mass, as long as I lived under my parents roof I had to attend, unless of course I was sick, but every Sunday I had to go no matter what, even if there was a blizzard going on as long as the Church doors were open, I had to go.

There seems to be some difference in how to treat the above...
Some priests believe that a child should be forced to go to Mass because it then becomes a habit.
Some priests believe this will leave the person disliking "religion" even more.
It's a toss up.
For you it seems to have worked!
I attended Mass from about the age of 10 or 11 even if my parents were not going.
I was 2 blocks away and it was a different world back then, so it was possible to do this...I don't think so these days.
(depends on where you live too).

But do you believe if you miss ONE MASS you're going straight to hell?

 

[GodsGrace]

Never heard of drive through Communion, that's plain silly, no offense.

It was going on during covid.
Not here, but some places in the states did do this.
I'm surprised you don't know about it.
I agree that it was silly.

 

[GodsGrace]

Heresy
"Commonly refers to a doctrinal belief held in opposition to the recognized standards of an established system of thought. Theologically it means an opinion at variance with the authorized teachings of any church, notably the Christian, and especially when this promotes separation from the main body of faithful believers."

One could say that the church, in general, is opposed to the teaching in scripture about what and who the church is and as a result has practices that you will not find in scripture and does not seem to want to emulate what the scripture teaches. It seems to place more emphasis on tradition and denominational rules than what the scripture says.

When I raised this with various denominational leaders they all said the same thing. Yes, I agree but.....

Right...
but....each one wants to be right.

Same problem we have on these sites!

 

[Enoch111]

Right... but....each one wants to be right.

Well someone has to right. There has to be sound doctrine based exclusively upon Scripture. So Scripture is the filter and everything has to be examined through it. If it is right it is right. And if it is wrong it is wrong.

 

[amigo de christo]

Gumming and then swallowing even a very tender chunk of meat is at least difficult if not impossible and dangerous.

Was für ein Mensch bist du?

Amadeus was typing in german for us all .

 

[GodsGrace]

Well someone has to right. There has to be sound doctrine based exclusively upon Scripture. So Scripture is the filter and everything has to be examined through it. If it is right it is right. And if it is wrong it is wrong.

The problem Enoch, is they every denomination and every individual person believes they have the correct understanding of scripture.

Would you agree that the early church was right till it went wayward?

 

[atpollard]

Not sure where this should be...
the study of God seemed appropriate (maybe).

Every denomination has some teaching or doctrine that we would not agree with.

How would you explain the difference between an
incorrect teaching
and
a heretical teaching...?

IOW,,,when does an incorrect teaching become heretical?

Thanks.

I find more precise theological terms are often useful:

Orthodox: the traditionally and historically held belief of the church (usually a belief in agreement with the early ecumenical creeds) and in agreement with the teaching of scripture.

Heterodox: a belief different from the historic/traditional position, but not a belief contradicted by scripture.

Heretical: a belief contradictory to the explicit teaching of scripture.

So as a Reformed Baptist, my credobaptist (baptism of only those that believe) beliefs would be “heterodox”, since the traditional/historic view of the church was to allow the baptism of babies (Paedobaptism - baptism as a family covenant), however Credobaptism is not contrary to scripture, only to church tradition.

A church that viewed Jesus as a man created by God and not as God, would be an example of a true Heretical belief since scripture is explicit about the divinity of Christ.

We (people) tend to be to quick with the “heretic” label. For a Protestant (Sola Scriptura), the word of God must explicitly contradict a belief and offer no legitimate support for that position for it to be a true heresy. Scripture tells us to have nothing to do with such people if they will not accept correction. It is a matter of last resort, not a weapon for casual debates.

 

[Wrangler]

A church that viewed Jesus as a man created by God and not as God, would be an example of a true Heretical belief since scripture is explicit about the divinity of Christ.

Except it’s not true. Scripture is explicit Jesus is not God but God’s son and God is the Father alone.

 

[bbyrd009]

Orthodox: the traditionally and historically held belief of the church (usually a belief in agreement with the early ecumenical creeds) and in agreement with the teaching of scripture.

the traditional/historic view of the church was to allow the baptism of babies

hmm

 

[bbyrd009]

Except it’s not true. Scripture is explicit Jesus is not God but God’s son and God is the Father alone.

fwiw "God" is a pretty generic term though
I said "you are Elohim"

 

[atpollard]

Except it’s not true. Scripture is explicit Jesus is not God but God’s son and God is the Father alone.

John 1

 

[amadeus]

Amadeus was typing in german for us all .

Ja, eben so! Yes, even so! Our God speaks all languages!

 

[Cooper]

Preaching to the converted accomplishes nothing....it just recycles and reinforces the lies. Who did Jesus and his apostles preach to? They had a message for their fellow Jews that largely fell on deaf ears because of the attitude you display. They worshiped the same God, but their leadership had steered them off course through the traditions that they introduced, making God’s word “invalid” because they gave it a different meaning. (Matthew 15:7-9)

Do you think you cannot learn anything? Do you think running away screaming “heretic” will do you any good? Counter the arguments and demonstrate that what you believe is solidly based in scripture...if you cannot do that then I suggest you do some serious study instead of these snide insults that simply expose your lack of knowledge and betray an insecurity about your own beliefs.

Consider all viewpoints and learn something. What you reject could be what Jesus is trying to teach you? Closing your mind never results in anything good. The truth can withstand all assaults, otherwise it isn’t the truth.

The JW bible is the silent witness to a corrupt religion.
.

 

[Wrangler]

John 1

The Gospel of John is the most anti-trinitarian book of the NT. The vaguer the statement the more adamant trinitarians assert it proves Christ divinity.

it is certain that John 1 cannot be used for this purpose because John explicitly tells us @ 20:31 everything he wrote was for another purpose; namely, to prove Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The Gospel of John is the most anti-trinitarian book of the NT. The vaguer the statement the more adamant trinitarians assert it proves Christ divinity.

it is certain that John 1 cannot be used for this purpose because John explicitly tells us @ 20:31 everything he wrote was for another purpose; namely, to prove Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

We can't forget John 1:18....."no one has ever seen God...".....how many thousands of people saw Jesus?

 

[Cooper]

We can't forget John 1:18....."no one has ever seen God...".....how many thousands of people saw Jesus?

God is Spirit, and therefore, invisible. He did however appear to men in the OT in visible form as an Angel or as a Man, and again in the New Testament as Jesus Christ.
.

 

[Wrangler]

We can't forget John 1:18....."no one has ever seen God...".....how many thousands of people saw Jesus?

Thanks for making this point. I was going to point out how v 18 is one of many that undermine trinitarianism by having only the dynamic duo as @APAK likes to say: God, in his unitarian nature, and his Son. Nowhere is the HS mentioned in this critical verses.

God is Spirit, and therefore, invisible. He did however appear to men in the OT in visible form as an Angel or as a Man, and again in the New Testament as Jesus Christ.
.

Cooper. Basic logic here. Has God been seen by man, yes or no?

You want to have it both ways. Another appeal to duality. Scripture explicitly states no one has seen God and explicitly states thousands saw Jesus.

To be literal about a highly figurative book like the Bible is difficult. I know it says that God appeared to Jacob as a man to wrestle all night but another passage says it was an Angel. The same thing with the burning bush. It seems v 18 removes all doubt; God has never been seen but does things through other beings, such as Angels to be seen and prophets, including Jesus, to say God's words.

Cooper, why do you suppose Jesus said @ 20:3 that his Father is the only true God and that he (Jesus) has not yet gone to his God @ 20:17 if Jesus were God? Also, why do you suppose Jesus did not teach the trinity but tell us to pray to our Father in heaven? Who are we praying to?

 

[amigo de christo]

Ja, eben so! Yes, even so! Our God speaks all languages!

May all that has breath praise the glorious Lord .