HERESY?

[atpollard]

The Gospel of John is the most anti-trinitarian book of the NT. The vaguer the statement the more adamant trinitarians assert it proves Christ divinity.

it is certain that John 1 cannot be used for this purpose because John explicitly tells us @ 20:31 everything he wrote was for another purpose; namely, to prove Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

You worship a different "god" than the God proclaimed in the GOSPEL (good news) of John and Paul about our LORD, Jesus, the Christ.

You have crossed one of the very few lines for which I believe fellowship should be broken.
I will now leave you to my LORD to deal with as I shake the dust off my shoes and abandon you to your heresy.
[engage ignore].

 

[Wrangler]

You worship a different "god" than the God proclaimed in the GOSPEL (good news) of John and Paul about our LORD, Jesus, the Christ.

Nowhere in Scripture is Jesus referred to in capital LORD, only lowercase lord, of which there are many lords in Scripture but only one LORD, who is God, the Father alone.

 

[Wrangler]

You have crossed one of the very few lines for which I believe fellowship should be broken.
I will now leave you to my LORD to deal with as I shake the dust off my shoes and abandon you to your heresy.
[engage ignore].

This is the trinitarian heresy: Making believing the trinity a condition of salvation and fellowship, which is found nowhere in Scripture.

 

[atpollard]

hmm

If one is going to remain honest, then one must acknowledge that however strongly we feel about "Sola Scriptura", it was not always the litmus test of the "church". There was a time (right or wrong) when both the written Word of God and the Tradition associated with that word from the ECF were held in equal esteem as two legs of a stool working together (with the Holy Spirit and the Living Church being the third leg to provide balance and stability during those early and ecumenical centuries).

While the scriptural case for "infant baptism" comes close to an argument from silence, the written record of infant baptism from church history is as old as the earliest "Bible" (collected together into a single book in the 4th Century if I remember correctly). As a "Protestant" and a "Particular Baptist", I adhere to "sola scriptura". Yet I would not embrace "revisionist" history and deny what happened ever really happened.

Therefore, an honest Baptist must concede "Orthodoxy" to Paedobaptism or argue from Scripture that we have returned to the practice from Acts and the First Century (where scripture is not explicit either way).

 

[JohnPaul]

There seems to be some difference in how to treat the above...
Some priests believe that a child should be forced to go to Mass because it then becomes a habit.
Some priests believe this will leave the person disliking "religion" even more.
It's a toss up.
For you it seems to have worked!
I attended Mass from about the age of 10 or 11 even if my parents were not going.
I was 2 blocks away and it was a different world back then, so it was possible to do this...I don't think so these days.
(depends on where you live too).

But do you believe if you miss ONE MASS you're going straight to hell?

@GodsGrace I no longer belong to the RCC, so no I don’t believe that if you miss one mass you will go straight to hell.

 

[JohnPaul]

It was going on during covid.
Not here, but some places in the states did do this.
I'm surprised you don't know about it.
I agree that it was silly.

I no longer consider myself Catholic but simply Christian, I don’t agree with what the RCC adheres to in its teachings and all the idolatry that goes on in the Church.

 

[Wrangler]

@GodsGrace I no longer belong to the RCC, so no I don’t believe that if you miss one mass you will go straight to hell.

Did you used to believe as a RCC that if you miss one mass you will go straight to hell? I was raised RCC and never thought that.

 

[JohnPaul]

Did you used to believe as a RCC that if you miss one mass you will go straight to hell? I was raised RCC and never thought that.

No I was never taught that either so I never thought about missing mass that way, but I hardly missed mass when I was younger.

 

[Marymog]

Did you used to believe as a RCC that if you miss one mass you will go straight to hell? I was raised RCC and never thought that.

I have never been taught that either....

 

[Marymog]

I no longer consider myself Catholic but simply Christian, I don’t agree with what the RCC adheres to in its teachings and all the idolatry that goes on in the Church.

So if you don't adhere to the RCC teaches then WHO's teachings do you adhere to?

Also, The Church condemns idolatry so any catholic committing idolatry is not adhering to Catholic teaching.

 

[JohnPaul]

So if you don't adhere to the RCC teaches then WHO's teachings do you adhere to?

Also, The Church condemns idolatry so any catholic committing idolatry is not adhering to Catholic teaching.

I adhere to the Bible. lol the RCC condemns Idolatry, then what do you call all the statues of Saints and Mary and Christ and people praying and kneeling before them?

 

[Marymog]

I adhere to the Bible. lol the RCC condemns Idolatry, then what do you call all the statues of Saints and Mary and Christ and people praying and kneeling before them?

Oh...YOU adhere to the bible? So if I follow what YOU (a mere man) teach then I would be adhering to the bible but if I follow what the men of The Church teach I am not adhering to the bible? It sounds like you believe the men of the church.....any church (denomination) are not as smart as you when it comes to reading and understanding the bible?

Yes, The Church condemns idolatry. Scripture condemns sin. Do you sin? I know you do so that means you are not following the teachings of Scripture. If there are some Catholics that commit idolatry then they are not following the teachings of The Church.

I call the statues of saints, Mary and Christ a reminder of people we admire, love and respect etc. Just like some of the pictures you have in your home or on your phone of your loved ones or people you admire/respect. Did you know there were no cameras back then to take pictures of Mary and Jesus? I guess a statue as a reminder of them will just have to do......

 

[JohnPaul]

Oh...YOU adhere to the bible? So if I follow what YOU (a mere man) teach then I would be adhering to the bible but if I follow what the men of The Church teach I am not adhering to the bible? It sounds like you believe the men of the church.....any church (denomination) are not as smart as you when it comes to reading and understanding the bible?

Yes, The Church condemns idolatry. Scripture condemns sin. Do you sin? I know you do so that means you are not following the teachings of Scripture. If there are some Catholics that commit idolatry then they are not following the teachings of The Church.

I call the statues of saints, Mary and Christ a reminder of people we admire, love and respect etc. Just like some of the pictures you have in your home or on your phone of your loved ones or people you admire/respect. Did you know there were no cameras back then to take pictures of Mary and Jesus? I guess a statue as a reminder of them will just have to do......

First of all I adhere to the Bible myself, I don’t teach, so no one follows me nor would I want them to.
Second that’s a bad comparison pictures to statues or vice versa, the effigies you have in your Church are idols, images created by man which you and your brethren kneel down to and pray to those images. Just like the golden calf.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Not sure where this should be...
the study of God seemed appropriate (maybe).

Every denomination has some teaching or doctrine that we would not agree with.

How would you explain the difference between an
incorrect teaching
and
a heretical teaching...?

IOW,,,when does an incorrect teaching become heretical?

Thanks.

An heretical teaching would be a doctrine of demons. Demons twist the words of Jesus and His teachings and say they cannot be true. There are scholars that look at their own lives to judge whether they have lived up to Jesus' teachings, or even can. Because their own lives do not reflect the indwelling Spirit of God, but believe they are saved, they do not believe Jesus words that He takes away our sin. They twist His teaching to be imputed righteousness, and Jesus blood covers the sins we have no power over committing. There is a huge difference between the truth of take away sin, "cleansing of all unrighteousness," and the heretical you are a liar if you say you have no sin (which in the next verse is the context and is before Christ "takes away our sin." For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. That is why we need Christ.)

 

[Marymog]

First of all I adhere to the Bible myself, I don’t teach, so no one follows me nor would I want them to.
Second that’s a bad comparison pictures to statues or vice versa, the effigies you have in your Church are idols, images created by man which you and your brethren kneel down to and pray to those images. Just like the golden calf.

Thanks JP,

How do you KNOW you are adhering to the bible? I know you think you are....but how do you KNOW you are? The key point I was making is that you (a mere man) believe that you adhere to the bible. You do this according to YOUR interpretation of the bible. Other men interpret the bible and they adhere to that interpretation of the bible. Their interpretation is different than yours. How do you know you are right and they are wrong?

Nope, not a bad comparison. It is a FACT that statues of Jesus and Mary remind us of Jesus and Mary. Just like pictures of our loved ones remind us of our loved ones. It is a very accurate comparison. AND you are completely wrong about praying to those statues. No one prays to the statues. If they do they are violating Scripture. Just like you do when you sin.

 

[GaryAnderson]

Thanks JP,

How do you KNOW you are adhering to the bible? I know you think you are....but how do you KNOW you are? The key point I was making is that you (a mere man) believe that you adhere to the bible. You do this according to YOUR interpretation of the bible. Other men interpret the bible and they adhere to that interpretation of the bible. Their interpretation is different than yours. How do you know you are right and they are wrong?

Nope, not a bad comparison. It is a FACT that statues of Jesus and Mary remind us of Jesus and Mary. Just like pictures of our loved ones remind us of our loved ones. It is a very accurate comparison. AND you are completely wrong about praying to those statues. No one prays to the statues. If they do they are violating Scripture. Just like you do when you sin.

I agree with you 100% but some people will never understand this.

 

[Marymog]

I agree with you 100% but some people will never understand this.

Thanks Gary. To some it's just common sense. To others, like @JohnPaul, they are comfortable reading Scripture and interpreting it on their own thinking they are right and everyone else is wrong. Scripture teaches opposite of that.

Respectfully, Mary

 

[Aunty Jane]

It is a FACT that statues of Jesus and Mary remind us of Jesus and Mary. Just like pictures of our loved ones remind us of our loved ones. It is a very accurate comparison. AND you are completely wrong about praying to those statues. No one prays to the statues. If they do they are violating Scripture. Just like you do when you sin.

Actually, it is a breach of the second Commandment to even make an image for use in worship.

Exodus 20:4-6.... New Catholic Bible....
“You shall not make idols or any image of things that are in the heavens above or that are upon the earth or that are in the waters under the earth. You shall not bow before them nor shall you serve them. I, the Lord, am your God, a jealous God, who punishes the sins of fathers upon their sons until the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but I will show my favor for a thousand generations of those who love me and observe my commandments.”

JP is absolutely correct. To even make an image of anything (even a cross) is against God’s law.

 

[JohnPaul]

Thanks Gary. To some it's just common sense. To others, like @JohnPaul, they are comfortable reading Scripture and interpreting it on their own thinking they are right and everyone else is wrong. Scripture teaches opposite of that.

Respectfully, Mary

I never said everyone was wrong, you’re putting words in my mouth, you do it your way I do it mine.

God bless

 

[Marymog]

I never said everyone was wrong, you’re putting words in my mouth, you do it your way I do it mine.

God bless

And I never said that you said everyone was wrong. I said that Some read Scripture, interpret it to their own thinking and whoever disagrees with them well then the other person is wrong...not them. Soooooo how do you conflate that into me putting words in your mouth??? YOU are not talked about in that entire sentence....


Curious Mary