HERESY?

[Marymog]

You don’t get that is was the authorisation that made the difference between something sacred to God and something that humans dreamed up because they justified it? Look what happened with the golden calf...and this was straight after the people of Israel had vowed to keep God’s laws. They called that calf “Jehovah” and held their own festival with it at the center of their worship.....but it was a relic from idol worshipping Egyptian religion, and it offended God to a great degree.....He sent Moses down to put a stop to it, and he put those idol worshippers to death.....

hi Jane,

They worshiped the graven image they made. That is where they went wrong. If they had not worshiped the actual graven image they made then they would not have violated God's command. Do you really believe that when God said Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth he meant that man can't make statues of cute puppy's or beautiful birds or elephants or whales etc otherwise they are violating one of His commandments? Is that what you believe?

 

[Marymog]

Again all these were made at God’s command, none were the idea of any man. Solomon was given complete instructions from God on how to construct his temple and what to include in it.

Solomon’s own palace was itself highly decorated but none of the trappings of his wealth were used in worship. You do understand the difference between a decoration and something that is used as an idol I hope......

Exactly....they were made by Gods command. But he also commanded us not to do it. Is he a hypocrite? Or are you saying as long as God commands us to violate the 2nd commandment then it's ok to violate it?

 

[JohnPaul]

Very good points.

Also, Catholics don't worship statues...at least they're not supposed to.
Ditto for saints.

I must be living on another planet then and was raised in some other church labeled Roman Catholic and did my sacraments and didn’t even know I did them? How many times have I seen people put money in the charity box in the place off to the side from the altar where they have the candles and the effigies and the person putting money in that box and kneeling before the effigy of the Saint or Mary or Christ they wish to pray to and kneel before them and pray, you’re talking to a former Catholic who lived it and even prayed the Rosary and did his confessions to the Priest in the confessional booth.

Excuse me for saying this but your lying to yourself and others who are reading your posts.

If you can’t see what you do and your fellow brothers and sisters do in Church then you are truly blind and trying to deceive those who don’t know or trying to twist the truth and somehow trying to sugar coat it, I lived it, I did all those things you say are false and Catholics don’t do.

Please stop!

 

[Marymog]

Now I find that quite amusing.....you perhaps should take that advice to heart yourself....and maybe do some more exploring....there is a difference between a reason and an excuse.....God knows the difference but sometimes we do not...we tend to justify doing what God tells us not to because we find it appealing, or because we have been lied to and don’t want to change.

I find it amusing that you find it amusing. For you see what you find amusing is what you have already said in a previous post....so that means you find your own words amusing....

 

[Marymog]

You don’t understand English? I needn’t interpret something I understand, when you interpret something you change it’s true meaning, something Mother Rome and her daughters have done for centuries.

You couldn’t understand if you wanted to, you’ve been indoctrinated and brainwashed, so until you get struck with the light as I did, you won’t understand.

I understand English quit well. What I don't understand is how you can say you adhere to the bible but you don't interpret it. How can you adhere to the law if you don't interpret the law???? That's fascinating to me....

 

[Marymog]

Take a look....but this was only last year for a while...

drive through communion during covid - Google Search

That is just bizarre to me. I wonder if the Vatican authorized any Catholic Churches to do that? I hope not....

I can understand Protestant denominations doing that since it is only bread and wine to them...but I hope no Catholic churches did that. Sadly, they probably did.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Absolutly not true. Gods command to men to make graven images ie the Ark is not about seeing it. He tells us not to worship it (it being a graven image). That is where you are confused. Men had to see it to make it.

None so blind, apparently. Go in peace Mary, and believe as you wish. I am not your judge....I am merely a messenger.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I think most on this thread believe that a heresy is a belief contrary to orthodoxy, or the belief accepted by the majority of Christianity as to the truth of scripture and the doctrines derived thereof.

Saying that a heresy is a doctrine of demons is very strong and would allow any belief to be accepted because the threshold is so high to go so far as to say that it is demonic.

I'm having a little bit of trouble understanding what you said about scholars...

Thanks for acknowledging my post GodsGrace. Everyone else has ignored it.


As far as "Orthodoxy" the majority of Christians are taught by "scholars" that teach we will always sin, so we will always struggle with sin. Many people struggle with sin so believe this "orthodox" but heretical teaching. They don't teach that Jesus changes our very nature, except to twist scripture and teach the unscriptural that our past, present and future sins are already forgiven. Those who believe them are on the wide road. Just because the majority believes a lie doesn't mean that Jesus ever knew them. Satan doesn't care if you believe in Jesus, just as long as you keep sinning, because he knows then that it is he that owns you, not Jesus. Romans 8:9 So, my friend, "orthodoxy" doesn't mean it isn't heretical, so that's terrifying that most on these forums think that the majority rules. No! Jesus rules! Many scholars teach doctrines of demons, and just like abuse in families, it just gets passed down to the next generation.

Think of the warnings of Jesus:

The Narrow Way
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[bbyrd009]

I needn’t interpret something I understand, when you interpret something you change it’s true meaning

"wait here for the present"

 

[JohnPaul]

Who Is The Roman Catholic Church Really Worshiping?.

Heresy!

 

[amigo de christo]

Enoch,
don't you think EVERYONE uses scripture for their source!

Those that believe in OSAS use scripture for support.
Calvinists use scripture for support.
Post tribs use scripture for their sourse.

and everything else we discuss.

WHO is to determine WHO is correct???
And WHO is wrong???

Not the catholic church . THEY dont determine what is right and wrong any more than calvin and etc .
The bible is not difficult to learn, IF we have the SPIRIT .
The reason there are so many interpretations is cause men HUNG to teachings of men . OF MEN gone wrong .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think the best way is to let scripture interpret scripture. If you see a contradiction. Or what you think is one. Look for interpretations of the passage they are not contradictory. In doing so. You will most likely find the truth.

In most heresy doctrines. They use verses which contradict other passages. And most of the time, You see they are stuck on these verses and will not even look at the rest.

Also. Would recommend if you do look to other people or churches for help. Realize that they could be wrong. Remember, the religious jews and priesthood was given by God and had history and the word given by God to them. Yet they were so wrong in their theology they crucified their own messiah because in their heresy they did not recognize him.

Your eternity is in your hands. Don;t place them in the hands of anyone. Even if you study or look to what they say, test each spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

That is just bizarre to me. I wonder if the Vatican authorized any Catholic Churches to do that? I hope not....

I can understand Protestant denominations doing that since it is only bread and wine to them...but I hope no Catholic churches did that. Sadly, they probably did.

No.
It was Catholic churches.
Catholics are used to receiving communion regularly - Protestants are not so I doubt they would be in need of something like
a drive-thru communion.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think the best way is to let scripture interpret scripture. If you see a contradiction. Or what you think is one. Look for interpretations of the passage they are not contradictory. In doing so. You will most likely find the truth.

In most heresy doctrines. They use verses which contradict other passages. And most of the time, You see they are stuck on these verses and will not even look at the rest.

Also. Would recommend if you do look to other people or churches for help. Realize that they could be wrong. Remember, the religious jews and priesthood was given by God and had history and the word given by God to them. Yet they were so wrong in their theology they crucified their own messiah because in their heresy they did not recognize him.

Your eternity is in your hands. Don;t place them in the hands of anyone. Even if you study or look to what they say, test each spirit.

Just came upon this.

I agree with you.
But we have one poster here that seems to be stuck on one verse and basis much of his belief system on that one verse.
I'm happy to hear you don't agree with that method of study.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thanks for acknowledging my post GodsGrace. Everyone else has ignored it.


As far as "Orthodoxy" the majority of Christians are taught by "scholars" that teach we will always sin, so we will always struggle with sin. Many people struggle with sin so believe this "orthodox" but heretical teaching. They don't teach that Jesus changes our very nature, except to twist scripture and teach the unscriptural that our past, present and future sins are already forgiven. Those who believe them are on the wide road. Just because the majority believes a lie doesn't mean that Jesus ever knew them. Satan doesn't care if you believe in Jesus, just as long as you keep sinning, because he knows then that it is he that owns you, not Jesus. Romans 8:9 So, my friend, "orthodoxy" doesn't mean it isn't heretical, so that's terrifying that most on these forums think that the majority rules. No! Jesus rules! Many scholars teach doctrines of demons, and just like abuse in families, it just gets passed down to the next generation.

Think of the warnings of Jesus:

The Narrow Way
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

I agree.

I do want to say that our nature is changed and we are slaves of the one to whom we present ourselves, as you've stated above. (Romans 8)
But I also believe that sin will not be 100% eradicated from our lives...
I do believe that sins are cut down drastically howwever.

I know persons that believe they NEVER sin...I just cannot accept this as being biblical because John himself states that if we say we have no sin we are lying and that if we do sin we have an advocate with the Father.

Would you agree?

IOW, there's a difference between practicing lawlessness and living a life of sin and sinning when we do not listen to the Holy Spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not the catholic church . THEY dont determine what is right and wrong any more than calvin and etc .
The bible is not difficult to learn, IF we have the SPIRIT .
The reason there are so many interpretations is cause men HUNG to teachings of men . OF MEN gone wrong .

What do you think of the men that were taught by the Apostles?
That would be the Early Church Fathers.
If those of us here are debating a specific teaching...
would it be wrong to see what the ECFs believed?

(I tend to trust them).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Just came upon this.

I agree with you.
But we have one poster here that seems to be stuck on one verse and basis much of his belief system on that one verse.
I'm happy to hear you don't agree with that method of study.

1 verse.

The bible was not written in chapter and verse form.

That should tell us about trying to use one verse and its fatal flaw.

 

[GodsGrace]

1 verse.

The bible was not written in chapter and verse form.

That should tell us about trying to use one verse and its fatal flaw.

Again, I agree.

However, it IS now divided by chapter and verses, which was originally used to make it easier to find the part of the N.T. that was being discussed.


For those interested:
Chapters and verses of the Bible - Wikipedia

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Again, I agree.

However, it IS now divided by chapter and verses, which was originally used to make it easier to find the part of the N.T. that was being discussed.


For those interested:
Chapters and verses of the Bible - Wikipedia

Sadly. Like everything else. Satan took a good things and caused some people to use it in a bad way.

 

[Aunty Jane]

IOW, there's a difference between practicing lawlessness and living a life of sin and sinning when we do not listen to the Holy Spirit.

I believe that this is an important point.....there are two kinds of “sin”....and only one is cancelled by Jesus’ sacrifice.

“Grace” is not a licence to sin.....it is the atonement for the sin and imperfection that was an inheritance from our forefather, Adam. (Romans 5:12) That is the sin that leads to death, one that all of us suffer from birth, no matter how righteous we try to be....it is an inevitable decline into old age, the breakdown of the physical organism, and eventually death.

This is the sin David spoke about in Psalm 51:5...
“Behold, I was brought forth in guilt, And in sin my mother conceived me.” (NASB)

This lethal inheritance is what Christ’s blood cancels out.....but the deliberate breaking of God’s Law is a choice, like the one the devil and our first parents made....there is no excuse or pardoning of a wilful and deliberate act of wrongdoing with no remorse or attempt to right the wrong.

Our sinful inheritance gives us weaknesses that can lead to sin, but at the end of the day, we are responsible for our own actions. If our weakness led us to commit sin, then we have a conscience to direct us to the only one who made forgiveness possible by sincere repentance. Jesus blood cleanses us from sin, but only if we repent. (1 John 1:7)

God forgives in a large way, but only if we are truly sorry and try our best never to repeat that sin.