HERESY?

[1stCenturyLady]

I'm on a phone and it's difficult to post...
Hope my computer is good soon...

You say we are to be like Christ and we have His nature.

Jesus has the nature of God,,,how could we have Jesus' nature if we're not God?

We have a human nature and that includes the possibility of sinning.

Jesus is the only human that never sinned.

We are God's children,,,,Jesus is His Son.
We are to use Jesus as an example and follow His teachings.

Does Jesus ever say we will not sin?

When we are born again of His Spirit, our carnal nature is crucified with Christ. Therefore, we no longer have the human nature you are referring to. Romans 8:9. We are not in the carnal nature but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells within us. And if we do not have the Spirit of Christ (His nature) we do not belong to Him.

Did you study 2 Peter 1:2-11 yet? Do you see that we partake of the Divine Nature? That is the nature of God. Jesus did not sin, and in Romans 8:29-30 we are told that He was the firstborn of MANY BRETHREN. IOW, many like Christ. That is how we can be holy, as God is holy. 1 Peter 1:15-16. Understand?

GG, this is very important. The Great Tribulation starts only weeks or months from now. Those Christians who do not understand the gospel - that Jesus takes away our sin nature and gives us His own nature, and have the evidence that they have received and been filled with the Holy Spirit through righteousness and holiness will be martyred. It will be a time of great testing for those who have not overcome. Revelation 2 and 3. The Bible says they will be beheaded. That is why I post what I do.

 

[marksman]

When we are born again of His Spirit, our carnal nature is crucified with Christ. Therefore, we no longer have the human nature you are referring to. Romans 8:9. We are not in the carnal nature but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells within us. And if we do not have the Spirit of Christ (His nature) we do not belong to Him.

Did you study 2 Peter 1:2-11 yet? Do you see that we partake of the Divine Nature? That is the nature of God. Jesus did not sin, and in Romans 8:29-30 we are told that He was the firstborn of MANY BRETHREN. IOW, many like Christ. That is how we can be holy, as God is holy. 1 Peter 1:15-16. Understand?

GG, this is very important. The Great Tribulation starts only weeks or months from now. Those Christians who do not understand the gospel - that Jesus takes away our sin nature and gives us His own nature, and have the evidence that they have received and been filled with the Holy Spirit through righteousness and holiness will be martyred. It will be a time of great testing for those who have not overcome. Revelation 2 and 3. The Bible says they will be beheaded. That is why I post what I do.

1st century lady, you post what you do because you have this penchant to make the scriptures say what the scripture does not say. Nothing is more obvious than your claim that the tribulation is going to start only weeks or months from now.

AND

The person who does not understand the gospel will be martyred

AND

Those who do not overcome will be beheaded.

I suggest you stop fantasising about what is or is not going to happen and get down to brass tacks and deal with your own life in the here and now.

 

[Grailhunter]

I cannot believe people cannot grasp this. I have explained it about a hundred ways in Grailhunter's Corner that the one God formula for the Trinity is a lie. From the start it was intended to be lie. This doctrine was created to stop arguments upon the threat of excommunication or death if anybody brought the same questions up.

Grailhunter’s Corner

It is pretty much the rule that if someone comes up with a slogan that is not in the Bible...ie Trinity or Original Sin or hyper grace, it is a lie. You can pretty much bet on it. Someone is trying to get you to believe a lie.

And this why you cannot understand the Bible without understanding the culture. What is the oneness concept in this culture....unity...solidarity....accord....
Christ explained what this oneness was about in a prayer from God the Son to God the Father....that is two of them....not praying to Himself...
John 17:21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
and then again
John 17:23 I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, that the world may know that Thou didst send Me, and didst love them, even as Thou didst love Me.

Christ, a God, talking to His Father, a God and explains that this unity this oneness is for us..."that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in Me and I in You. Words mean things! "may all be one" and the word "as" is important...the word is not like....it is not symbolically....it is not even similarly. "As" is the word, exactly the same.

Now we are not going to be absorbed into the great godhead....as one person and we are not going to be Gods. So there is something else about this unity....this oneness that Christ speak of.

The debate is over the wrong topic....even though we can only speculate....What is this unity? This oneness that Christ speaks of? Christ did the will of the Father, not His own....that is two wills....two minds. Still speculating, it might be important for three Gods to agree, or have a unity in such a fashion that would prevent disagreement. What that is, is speculative.

I hate to bring up science or logic with Christians but.....if you have three computers and they do calculations.... the results will be identical. So if God the Father...Yahweh...and God the Son, Yeshua....and God the Holy Spirit have ultimate and flawless intelligence they will always agree. Is this the oneness? Again speculative.

As it appears in the scriptures
The Trinity includes
Yahweh, God the Father, God Almighty, Supreme God. Creator of heaven and earth.
Yeshua, God the Son, a full fledged God, Savior and Redeemer and Messiah.
God the Holy Spirit a full fledged God that remained unnamed. Strengthener, comforter, teacher, and guide.

All equally Gods, but the authority of the Father is supreme. I explain this about hundred ways in Grailhunter's Corner. Now I still use the word Trinity....but it is three Gods in a Godhead, not one God, not one person.

You think this is a popular belief that spans centuries, so it must be correct? Misunderstandings that span millenniums exist within Judaism and Christianity. How many people believe that the Ten Commandments are in Chapter 20 of Exodus? How many people believe that God offered heaven to the Israelites or threatened them with hell? How many people believe that the star the Magi followed rested over the nativity?

 

[Enoch111]

This is as the scripture tells us...

No. That is purely what you imagine, since you have neglected to mention many other things which also happen, but must happen in a particular order (not as you believe). However, since you have set yourself up as an enemy of Dispensationalism (which is a sound way to interpret the Bible) you have blinded yourself to the truth. Do let me know if you are interested in the truth rather than calling Dispensationalism a heresy.

 

[Enoch111]

Now I still use the word Trinity....but it is three Gods in a Godhead, not one God, not one person.

There is no such thing as "three Gods in a Godhead". It is always ONE GOD eternally existent as three divine Persons (1 John 5:7 KJB).

 

[Grailhunter]

There is no such thing as "three Gods in a Godhead". It is always ONE GOD eternally existent as three divine Persons (1 John 5:7 KJB).

The Johannine comma addition!
Keep reading the King James Version of the Bible...it makes it easy for me to prove you wrong! The real question is how many other errors are in the KJV?

 

[Enoch111]

The real question is how many other errors are in the KJV?

Oh, so now the King James Bible is under attack. What next?

 

[Grailhunter]

Oh, so now the King James Bible is under attack. What next?

It is common knowledge. Great for poetic verses....hard to find a Bible that has as many errors.

Excuse me! There is a Bible that has more errors.....the Jehovah's Witnesses' Bible....The New World Translation, which is based on the KJV just with additional errors in the scriptures to deny Christ was/is a God.

 

[Marymog]

You seem to think that we do not accept the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.....but we most certainly do. We just do not interpret the three as ONE GOD, since the church calls each of them "God". That is three gods and something Jesus would never have taught.
Squeezing three "gods" into one "head" doesn't find any support whatsoever in the Bible.
Yahweh is God the Father. Jesus Christ is never once called Yahweh but only ever "the son of God"....never "God the Son".
The holy spirit is God's power directed to whomever or wherever he wants it to go to accomplish his will. It is not a person and it has no name. Giving it gender is more grammar than personification.


Yes all three recognized but not as one God....no trinity there unless you imagine it.....

Good morning Jane,

Thank you for the clarification.

“Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” If you can explain to me how Jesus was BEFORE Abraham without being a God then I will join your denomination.

For this reason, the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because he was not only breaking the sabbath, but was also calling God his own Father, thereby making himself equal to God. The Jews answered, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you, but for blasphemy, because you, though only a human being, are making yourself God.” Apparently, the Jews at the time thought he was making himself God. But the men of your denomination don't????

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. Christians believe what Scripture says. That the Word became flesh and the Word was God. Why don't your men teach you that?

yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. Can the men who teach you not see from this passage that the Father and the Son are equal?


Bible study Mary

 

[Marymog]

There is no Holy Ghost. You are still reading into these words what you want to see. What the Catholic church wants you to see.




Where? If the trinity was a true doctrine it would be clearly stated....it isn't....because it never was believed by the first Christians or the AF's.

Trinities were found in many parts of pagan religions however.....

It is not Biblical....it is a pagan idea masquerading as Christian doctrine.

Hmmmmm.....The AF's clearly talked about the concept of the Trinity (even though they didn't use the word "trinity")

BUT....according to you....the AF's (men who are students of the Apostles) are wrong???????? You trust the men who were not students of the Apostles that created the JW denomination in the 19th century?????? Simply fascinating........

 

[Marymog]

Got it … I quote 3 dozen verses from God that each one destroys the trinity. All you got to say is ignore God’s Word and pretend the Holy Spirit of God is incapable of teaching me.

The Spirit is capable of teaching you. Maybe, someday, you will hear Him.

 

[Cooper]

Notice again that is not true. I quoted 1 Cor 8:6, which explicitly goes against the trinity.

Your intellectual dishonesty is on display because I am primarily pointing out what is absent from Scripture; namely, the trinity in a verse like a wrote in red. Just admit it is not there and we can go on.

(1Co 8:6 KJV) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

ALL THINGS ARE OF THE FATHER.

ALL THINGS ARE BY THE SON.

ONE GOD. God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
.

 

[Wrangler]

The Spirit is capable of teaching you. Maybe, someday, you will hear Him.

And in your enlightened view, the only way I can demonstrate being taught by the Spirit is if it leads me back to your corrupt collective eh?

(1Co 8:6 KJV) But to us there is but one God, the Father
.

One God, the Father. For the purpose of this thread, that is the important part of 1 Cor 8:6. There is no trinitarian God verse. The explicit verse is states is one God, the Father.

 

[Moriah's Song]

No. That is purely what you imagine,

1 Thess. 4:16-18 - "a)For the Lord himself will descend from heaven b)with a cry of command, c)with the archangel's call, d)and with the sound of the trumpet of God. e)And the dead in Christ will rise first; f)then we who are alive, who are left, g)shall be caught up together with them h)in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; i)and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."

This is not my "imagination" and so I give you the chronology of Paul's account of what we can expect on the "last day" if we have died before the resurrection as well as if we should still be alive on "that same day."

This is the order of events at the end of this age according to what Paul tells us - not my words.

Verse 16a-i:

a. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven...(First to happen)
b, c, and d ...with a cry of command, c) with the archangel's call, and the sound of the trumpet (2nd equal-phase)
e. ...And the dead in Christ will rise first (3rd phase)
f. ...then we who are alive, who are left, (4th phase)
g. ... shall be caught up together with them (5th phase).."them" meaning both dead and alive saints"
h. ... in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (6th phase)
I. ... and so we shall always be with the Lord (7th phase)​

Paul, in the paragraph context of Thess 4, is responding to the concerns of those who had loved ones that died as to what would happen to them in their future afterlife...as well as what will happen with us who may be alive then.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Yes three different and separate things, only two of which are entities. God's spirit is not an entity.

Still waiting for your respone to these from my earlier post....

But let me ask you to explain these to me please...
1. explain how Jesus was able to speak to Lazarus who had been dead for 4 days. His spirit had left him but Jesus was able to call back Lazarus' spirit and restore him back to a natural life;
2. explain how Jesus was able to ressurect himself from the dead when he was dead for hours if not days;
3. explain how it was that Jesus in Matthew 27:52-53, could have opened those tombs of the saints, raised them from the dead, and have them ascent into heaven with him;
4. Explain how Jesus used the term "We will come unto him and make our abode with him." Who are the "our" and the "we" in that verse?
5. How could Jesus have said, "I and the Father are one" without being condemned as a liar? If Jesus was lying he would not have been sin free. If he was not sin free, you and I and all other human beings on planet earth have been duped and are still in our sins because, as a sinner, he could never have been our sacrifce; he would have been reduced to being no different than you and I. How does that make you feel?
6. At Christ baptism the Son came up out of the water, the Spirit descended upon Him and the Father's voice spoke from heaven (Matt. 3:16,17). Explain that please?
7. Probably the most beautiful description of the work of "atonement" is found in Hebrews 9:14, where it is stated that Christ, through the Eternal Spirit, offered Himself without spot to God; and there we behold the three Persons operating together again in Matthew 3:16,17.

 

[Cooper]

And in your enlightened view, the only way I can demonstrate being taught by the Spirit is if it leads me back to your corrupt collective eh?


One God, the Father. For the purpose of this thread, that is the important part of 1 Cor 8:6. There is no trinitarian God verse. The explicit verse is states is one God, the Father.

For the purpose of this thread "ALL THINGS ARE BY THE PRE-INCARNATE SON." THE ONE GOD.
.

 

[Wrangler]

explain how Jesus was able to ressurect himself from the dead

Your questions have implied premises that are wrong. Acts 17:31 informs us that Jesus did NOT resurrect himself but God, in his unitarian nature, resurrected Jesus. Jesus died and did not resurrect himself. So, your question of how he did this is an invalid question.

 

[Wrangler]

For the purpose of this thread "ALL THINGS ARE BY THE PRE-INCARNATE SON." THE ONE GOD.
.

For the purpose of this thread, go against the word of God?! Never.

The Son is not the Creator. Father's create son's. Colossians 1:15 informs us Jesus was the firstborn of all creation.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Your questions have implied premises that are wrong. Acts 17:31 informs us that Jesus did NOT resurrect himself but God, in his unitarian nature, resurrected Jesus. Jesus died and did not resurrect himself. So, your question of how he did this is an invalid question.

From GotQuestions.org.....
In Acts 2:24, Peter says that “God raised [Jesus] from the dead.” So that’s the basic answer. God resurrected Jesus. As we read more Scripture, that basic answer becomes more nuanced.

The Bible indicates that all three Persons of the Trinity were involved in Jesus’ resurrection. Galatians 1:1 says that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. First Peter 3:18 says that the Spirit raised Jesus from the dead (see also Romans 1:4, and note that Romans 8:11 clearly says that God will resurrect believers “through His Spirit”). And in John 2:19 Jesus predicts that He will raise Himself from the dead (see also John 10:18). So, when we answer the question of who resurrected Jesus, we can say God did. And by that we can mean it was the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

It may seem puzzling how Jesus could be said to raise Himself. How can a dead man have any say in his own resurrection? The answer is that Jesus was more than a man who died; He was the eternal Son of God incarnate. Wicked men could kill His body, but they could not change His eternal nature or diminish His divine power. In John 10:17–18 Jesus says something that no mere mortal could ever say: “I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again.” No one else in the history of the world has ever had the authority both to lay down his life and to raise it up again.

Furthermore, Jesus said, “I am the resurrection and the life” (John 11:25). He claimed to be the resurrection Himself; He has absolute authority over life and death (Revelation 1:18). Jesus is God. He could say He would raise up His body on the third day because He, being God, has power over death.

 

[Cooper]

For the purpose of this thread, go against the word of God?! Never.

The Son is not the Creator. Father's create son's. Colossians 1:15 informs us Jesus was the firstborn of all creation.

You do not understand the meaning of firstborn. When talking about firstborn, we are talking about the law of Primogeniture.

In the Bible, Manasseh was born first, but Ephraim is the "firstborn," not because he was born first, he wasn't, BUT Ephraim was pre-eminent over Manasseh. When we are told Jesus is the firstborn over all creation we are not only being told Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, but also Jesus is pre-eminent over all creation, meaning Jesus is the Creator God, which is a re-affirmation of Col 1:16.

You speak in ignorance.
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