HERESY?
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You don’t understand that I was asking: the leaven of men and heresy are the same thing, aren’t they?
Scratching head…I even gave an example…
What do you mean by the above highlighted?Agreed
On this I would say that the communion memorial was revealed as to how it was to be practiced and then the meaning of the "bread/artos and the wine in regards to the "New Covenant.
Agreed.
I'm sorry,,,I should have been more clear...
This is the part I don't understand...
For instance, when you teach that men without Gods Spirit will be eternally tortured, you are teaching that all men are born immortal,
in my post 1321.
You have not heard men preach the leaven that says men will be in eternal torment when hell is thrown into the lake of fire in the end?
No. I attend a Catholic church and this is not preached.
Jesus is preached and how we are to emulate Him, and serve our community.
So you're saying that hell is not eternal?
What does Jesus mean in Matthew 25:41 when He states that hell is everlasting?
Eternal fire, Jude 1:7
Tormented day and night, Revelation 20:10
Do you believe in annihilation?
Read the Rev 20:10 verse carefully. Who does it say will be tormented forever?
Only an eternal being could be tormented forever in fire.
It is true some men are sent to hell. And it is true that in the end, hell will be thrown into the lake of fire. What is not true is that a mortal being thrown there would still remain alive.
I think your own gathering teaches a purgatory? I would like to see what they say about it and any verses they use because the outer darkness appears to me to maybe be that place where the forgiven man who didn’t forgive another is cast until he pays the last farthing?
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What I mean about Protestantism is that we are getting farther and farther away from what has always been considered THE TRUTH.
If every denomination, incl the independent ones, teach different doctrine, how are we to know which one is right and which one is wrong?
I had occasion to watch a lot of YouTube the past year or so and if someone doesn't know the bible already, they'd be pulling their hair out trying to figure out who's right.
How many times have I heard "I'm looking for a good church".
My own brother is looking for a good church.
He moved down south, maybe he'll find one.
Some of us are not so lucky....
I know a priest that believes that hell is temporary.
Please clarify YOUR belief..is it the above?
Right now I do believe that wherever we end up, it will be forever.
You search scripture. If you search it and if you have the down payment of the Spirit, He will eventually show you places that seem to go against a doctrine. He will either show you the doctrine is wrong because it has not tied in those verses, or he will show you how they properly fit in without the part that is leaven.
That’s the only way I know or have ever learned by Him regarding men’s teachings.
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
I meant only that there were several aspects to the Last Supper and just what those ingredients of the supper were to be (i.e. bread & wine) and then the showing of how is was to be practiced in the future (after the resurrection) and that the "New Covenant" was revealed at that same event even though it did not become effective until after the resurrection - not while he was hanging on the cross.
I would love to speak to that man for any verses that brought him to that! Yes, hell is temporary. It says hell and it’s contents, and death, are cast into the fire in the end. No more hell, no more death, ever again.
It’s the outer darkness I don’t know if it’s temporary or eternal.
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
I would say that is an "understatement" about the status of the Protestant churches today....but then I do believe that since we are in the end times, it is to be expected....and since my other half was Catholic before converting that I could not live under the RCC due to many things that are not supported in scripture, starting with Mary.
I am with you on what you are saying. I think the outer darkness you speak of may be symbolic of something.
Are you speaking of the Parable of thee Wedding feast when you speak about outer darkness?
Yes. Mathew mentions the outer darkness three times. The wedding feast, the parable of the talents, and another where the sons of the kingdom will be cast there.
I don’t think the outer darkness and the lake of fire are the same thing. I think some man somewhere must have thought they were because they both mention gnashing of teeth so he taught it and everyone swallowed it.
It never says the outer darkness is thrown into the lake. It makes me get a headache and queasy because I want it to be temporary.
No, it sure didn't. I just looked at all of them Matt 8:12 , 22:13, 25:30.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
He already has....."Babylon the great" encompasses more than just apostate Christianity...it is much more wide spread than that.
Why is this 'harlot' called "Babylon the great" in the first place? And why is she called a prostitute?
It is because original Babylon was the springboard for all false religion. When Israel strayed into false worship, God accused her of spiritual immorality. So any kind of adoption of false worship made them spiritual prostitutes in God's eyes.
After the flood of Noah's day, it was Noah's great grandson (Nimrod) who started to elevate himself as the first political ruler and along with his wicked mother Semiramis, introduced all manner of false worship.....instead of spreading abroad in the earth as they were commanded by God to do, they decided to stay put and make a celebrated name for themselves. They built cities, the grandest of which was Babel and they intended to build "a tower with its top in the heavens". (Genesis 11:1-9)
(Legend has it that this was to save themselves in case God ever brought another flood)
So, because of their disobedience, God confused their language and thwarted their plans, forcing them to spread out in the earth, but in doing so, they took all their false religious ideas with them and that is why we see a common thread running through all of the religions in the world.....multiplicities of gods....and belief in an immortal soul that goes to either a hell of eternal torture or an eternity of heavenly bliss. Each added their own minor details, and the major religions of the world became largely geographical.
So "the greater Babylon" is an image of the original....all of its doctrines can be traced back to Babylon's false religious beliefs.
The rabbinic writings derived the name Nimrod from the Hebrew verb ma·radhʹ, meaning “rebel.” Thus, the Babylonian Talmud (Erubin 53a) states: “Why, then, was he called Nimrod? Because he stirred up the whole world to rebel (himrid) against His [God’s] sovereignty.”—Encyclopedia of Biblical Interpretation, by Menahem M. Kasher.
Nimrod distinguished himself as a mighty hunter “before” (in an unfavorable sense; Heb., liph·nehʹ; “against” or “in opposition to”) or “in front of” Jehovah. (Genesis 10:9)
According to M’Clintock and Strong Cyclopædia: “That the mighty hunting was not confined to the chase is apparent from its close connection with the building of eight cities. . . . What Nimrod did in the chase as a hunter was the earlier token of what he achieved as a conqueror. For hunting and heroism were of old specially and naturally associated . . . The Assyrian monuments also picture many feats in hunting, and the word is often employed to denote campaigning. . . . The chase and the battle, which in the same country were connected so closely in aftertimes, may therefore be virtually associated or identified here. The meaning then will be, that Nimrod was the first after the flood to found a kingdom, to unite the fragments of scattered patriarchal rule, and consolidate them under himself as sole head and master; and all this in defiance of Jehovah, for it was the violent intrusion of Hamitic power into a Shemitic territory.”—1894, Vol. VII, p. 109."
Nimrod apparently remained at Babel and expanded his dominion, founding the first Babylonian Empire.
Nimrod also features very clearly in Northern Hemisphere folk law. Tradition has it that Nimrod died a violent death. Since the god Marduk (Merodach) was regarded as the founder of Babylon, it has been suggested by some that Marduk represents the deified Nimrod. It is said that his mother placed him among the gods after his death, and thereby gave herself the title "Mother of God".
With the passage of time, the gods of the first Babylonian Empire began to multiply. The pantheon came to have a number of triads of gods, or deities. One such triad was composed of Anu (the god of the sky), Enlil (the god of the earth, air, and storm), and Ea (the god presiding over the waters). Another triad was that of the moon-god Sin, the sun-god Shamash, and the fertility goddess Ishtar, the lover or consort of Tammuz. Ishtar is where we get "Easter" and "Tammuz" was the false god wept over by the women of Israel....the dying God who was resurrected in the Spring.
The Babylonians even had triads of devils, such as the triad of Labartu, Labasu, and Akhkhazu.
Thought you might like a bit of interesting history and the origins of a lot of religious beliefs adopted by Christendom, but which find no support in scripture.....it all makes perfect sense. The "weeds" were predicted.....and they consumed the garden as weeds always do.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Perhaps this will help.....
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101991113?q=darkness+outside&p=par
If you don't want to read it all, just scroll to the subheading, "The Illustration of the Talents".
I hope it helps to ally your fears.
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