Hidden Agenda: everyone ignored deaths from flu but not COVID-19

[Yehren]

The flu season comes around annually and people die. In the 2018-2019 (the longest flu season) there were an estimated 34,000 deaths for all ages in the USA. No one panicked, no one put on masks, and nothing happened to the economy.

In 2020, we put on masks, shut down non-essential functions, did social distancing and "shelter in place", and so far (Yehren checks) nearly 62,000 people died so far, in spite of all those precautions. And that's an undercount; people who died at home are usually not being tested, so we don't really know yet how many others died from the virus. That will come later, when there's time to look at it carefully.

No one panicked. In fact, our leaders were asleep at the wheel, and allowed the pandemic to spread widely in America before doing anything. That cost a lot of lives, but fortunately, governors stepped up and took action themselves, saving countless lives.

It's not over yet, and indications are that releasing controls at this time will kill even more people.

 

[Yehren]

.Fauci publicly *corrected* Trump on hydroxychloroquine (confirmed to be both effective and cheap) because he had a hand in helping his buddy who runs Gilead and has now come up with the more expensive and less effective Remdesivir. The mainstream media have also been waging war on hydroxychlorioquine. They do not want people to know the truth.

First available data from Trump's own administration indicate that hydroxychloroquine actually is worse than nothing as a treatment for COVID-19:

A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.


The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it’s the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.


The study was posted on an online site for researchers and has not been reviewed by other scientists. Grants from the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia paid for the work.
Veterans Affairs Study Found Malaria Drug Led to More Deaths, No Benefits in Coronavirus Patients

It is true that a major Trump supporter has a lot of money invested in hydroxychloroquine:

A conservative “dark money” group that received funding from the pharmaceutical industry’s largest trade organization pushed President Donald Trump to use unproven antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 and make it more widely available.

Last month, the conservative nonprofit group Job Creators Network collaborated with health care nonprofit Physicians for Reform to launch an online petition, a series of Facebook ads and a mass text message campaign urging Trump to make hydroxychloroquine available to treat patients battling COVID-19, Sludge reported. These groups do not disclose their sources of funding.

“There is clear and ever-mounting evidence that the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine can significantly help patients who contract coronavirus,” the petition read.

One of Trump’s most influential supporters, Home Depot co-founder Bernard Marcus, founded the Job Creators Network in 2011.
...
PhRMA represents the most powerful drug companies in the country such as Bayer, Novartis and Teva. These companies, along with Mylan, have pledged to donate 200 million hydroxychloroquine tablets for clinical testing, according to Job Creators Network’s petition. These pharmaceuticals stand to profit the most if the drug is officially used to treat COVID-19.
‘Dark money’ groups pushed Trump to back unproven COVID-19 treatment

"Hidden agenda." No kidding.

 

[Yehren]

Way the COVID-19 death undercount matters:

It’s not exactly breaking news that the United States has underreported COVID-19 deaths, especially early on in the pandemic. First, the delayed response to the virus, and the botched rollout of testing kits, means that many deaths occurring in late January, February, and even March may have been misidentified as pneumonia or influenza. Particularly in rural areas, where testing capacity is limited or unavailable, it’s possible that coronavirus cases—and deaths—are still misrepresented as more common diseases.

Meanwhile, despite moves to ease statewide lockdowns, widespread testing remains unavailable to the majority of Americans. In other words, thousands of probable cases are not accurately reflected in ongoing virus mapping efforts. One way to assess this gap is to compare daily local death to rates at a city or state level to average daily death rates before COVID-19 appeared. A recent report found that over 200 New York City residents were dying each day at home—an increase from 20 or 25 before the coronavirus appeared.

We're really blind to this now; we have no way of checking, which seems to be why the Trump administration continues to drag their feet in getting test kits available; the evidence shows that testing all those people would cause a large increase in the number of known COVID-19 deaths.
The COVID-19 Death Undercount Is Scarier Than You Think

 

[Cristo Rei]

As a newbie I don't want to project my opinions and get into a political argument
Therefore I will just present some facts

Coronavirus numbers in perspective
Total deaths in the USA for 2019 was 2,813,503

The top fourteen causes of death were
647,457 Heart disease
599,108 Cancer
250,000 Medical errors
169,936 Accidents
160,201 Respiratory disease
121,404 Alzheimer’s
83,000 Diabetes
80,000 Pneumonia/ Flu
64,795 Accidental poisoning
47,173 Suicide
40,922 Blood poisoning from bacteria
36,336 Falls
35,823 Alcohol induced deaths
35,000 Antibiotic resistant bacteria

The total deaths of C19 in the USA at the moment is 62,603
Total deaths from C19 would be even lower given how they are recording them
The early C19 models had predicted 240,000 deaths in America


Has the lockdown saved many lives?
Sweden didn’t lockdown, their deaths per 1M is 233 compared to Americas 172
South Korea had no lockdown, deaths per1M is 210
Taiwan had no lockdown, deaths per1M is 0.3

After reviewing the data can we say this lockdown is reasonable, is there a hidden agenda, is C19 being used by some for financial gain?

 

[Cristo Rei]

Im sure we have all seen the countless videos of medical staff doing these dance routines

Some people say that this is proof that the hospitals are not busy and are relatively empty
Others say that they are just letting off some steam by learning dance routines and performing
Still others say that it is a disrespectful thing to be doing if they really are surrounded by sickness and death

What do u think. Are the medical staff out of line or justified in these actions

 

[Justadude]

As a newbie I don't want to project my opinions and get into a political argument
Therefore I will just present some facts

Hmmmmmmm.........

Coronavirus numbers in perspective
Total deaths in the USA for 2019 was 2,813,503

The top fourteen causes of death were
647,457 Heart disease
599,108 Cancer
250,000 Medical errors
169,936 Accidents
160,201 Respiratory disease
121,404 Alzheimer’s
83,000 Diabetes
80,000 Pneumonia/ Flu
64,795 Accidental poisoning
47,173 Suicide
40,922 Blood poisoning from bacteria
36,336 Falls
35,823 Alcohol induced deaths
35,000 Antibiotic resistant bacteria

First, where are you getting your numbers from? The CDC estimates the annual deaths from influenza from 2010-2017 ranged from 12,000 (2011-2012) to 51,000 (2014-2015).

Second, and importantly....what's your point?

The total deaths of C19 in the USA at the moment is 62,603
Total deaths from C19 would be even lower given how they are recording them

Citation please.

The early C19 models had predicted 240,000 deaths in America

That was if we took no measures, correct?

Has the lockdown saved many lives?
Sweden didn’t lockdown, their deaths per 1M is 233 compared to Americas 172

Sweden didn't just do nothing though, right? Vulnerable people self-isolated and social distancing guidelines were issued. Yet as you note, their death rate is significantly higher than the US. If the US had the same rate you state for Sweden, we would be at over 80,000 dead already. So I guess you answered your own question...the lockdown has saved 20,000 lives.

South Korea had no lockdown, deaths per1M is 210
Taiwan had no lockdown, deaths per1M is 0.3

Both of those countries had immediate testing and contact tracing once the virus was detected in their countries, followed by aggressive quarantines. The US OTOH stalled in the early stages of the outbreak and missed our opportunity to do those things.

After reviewing the data can we say this lockdown is reasonable, is there a hidden agenda, is C19 being used by some for financial gain?

By your own measures, it's worked and saved lives.

But I have to wonder....if you're from Australia, why are you so interested in US policies?

 

[Yehren]

Has the lockdown saved many lives?

Yep.

Sweden didn’t lockdown, their deaths per 1M is 233 compared to Americas 172

Sweden is just now about to enter the exponential phase of the pandemic. Unless they take some precautions, they will have about 17,000 deaths or about 1700 per million people. If the U.S. continues controls, we will have about 72,000 deaths, or about 218 per million people. Apples to apples.

South Korea had no lockdown, deaths per1M is 210

But they did have quick response, unlike the U.S. where our leaders botched the response remaining in denial for an extended period of time. Fortunately, the governors of most states acted.



Taiwan had no lockdown, deaths per1M is 0.3[/QUOTE]

Why Taiwan was the only nation that responded correctly to coronavirus
The strongest argument against such claims is simply to look around the world. If there is an obvious, easy-to-apply protocol to control a pandemic, the world’s most advanced health-care systems generally missed it. On a per-capita basis — cases per million — the US currently ranks tenth in the number of COVID-19 deaths per million inhabitants, well behind Sweden, France and Belgium.


“I don’t think any country has a perfect record,” Bill Gates said in a recent interview. “Taiwan comes close.” Indeed, despite its location just 80 miles off the China coast, Taiwan has had only six deaths from the disease to date. How did they do it? Taiwan seems to have followed the model recommended by disaster expert Vaughan: It doesn’t expect infallibility from its leaders. Instead, Taiwan makes sure that its health institutions are hyper-vigilant about epidemic risks. After the SARS epidemic of 2003, Taiwan set up an interlocking set of agencies geared toward the early detection of pandemics and bioterrorism. If a threat is detected, containment plans and supply stockpiles are ready. That process starts at the bottom, not the top.

Today, many Americans want to identify the people who allowed the pandemic to spread so rampantly. President Trump usually tops that list. Though his administration took some steps to prepare for the virus beginning in early January, the president himself generally downplayed the potential crisis. (“We have it totally under control,” he said on Jan. 22.) Trump did make a decisive — and widely criticized — call to limit travel from China on Jan. 31. But his administration then squandered precious weeks, taking too long to force CDC and FDA administrators to cut red tape on testing and protective gear.

Trump’s defenders point to a long list of failings by Democrats, led by New York governor AndrewGov. Cuomo and New York City Mayor de Blasio. Like Trump, both leaders were slow to face reality and too eager to reassure constituents. “We can really keep this thing contained,” the mayor insisted on Feb. 26. “We’ve been ahead of this since Day 1,” Cuomo agreed a few days later.
https://nypost.com/2020/04/25/taiwan-was-the-only-nation-with-a-correct-coronavirus-response/

 

[Cristo Rei]

Citation please.

Citation for what, the death count method. U seriously haven't heard or read...
The disadvantages of relying on the one mainstream media source i guess

Second, and importantly....what's your point?

I can't see why I must make some point when I clearly said that i was presenting data

But I have to wonder....if you're from Australia, why are you so interested in US policies?

I said nothing about American policies. I only used their numbers

If your interested, Australia predicted 1,500 deaths with lockdown measures and have less than 100 deaths
Our hospitals have only 40 ICU patients for C19 and a whole lot of empty beds.
The average per 1M is only 3 and our lockdown is stage 3. In comparison our average annual flu deaths are 1,500-3,000
Meanwhile deaths from other causes are up cos people either won't go to the hospital or are being refused treatment

Sacrificing the lives of many young people to save the lives of a few sick and frail old people
All while medical staff do these choreographed dance routines

 

[Yehren]

What do u think. Are the medical staff out of line or justified in these actions

Whatever keeps them sane in the middle of all this death and disruption, is fine with me. Why would it bother you?

 

[Yehren]

Sacrificing the lives of many young people to save the lives of a few sick and frail old people

I wasn't aware that they were killing young people as a means of protecting old people. Where is that going on? Yes, in some societies, they just killed old people or left them out to starve or freeze. There are still some places like that on Earth. You can probably get a flight there, if you like.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Whatever keeps them sane in the middle of all this death and disruption, is fine with me. Why would it bother you?

Im not bothered. It just lacks decorum and is disrespectful to over 200,000 people who died from C19 and their families
Also the time spent choreographing such dance routines and performing them in empty hospitals shows how quite they really are

I wasn't aware that they were killing young people as a means of protecting old people. Where is that going on? Yes, in some societies, they just killed old people or left them out to starve or freeze. There are still some places like that on Earth. You can probably get a flight there, if you like.

Sacrificing a life doesn't necessarily equate to killing someone. Perhaps I should of stated it like this
"Ruining 20,000,000 young lives to save a few old lives"

 

[Yehren]

Whatever keeps them sane in the middle of all this death and disruption, is fine with me. Why would it bother you?

Im not bothered.

So what are you complaining about? You ever been in that kind of place?

It just lacks decorum

Yeah. Decorum. You never had someone die in front of you, because no one could do anything to save them? I've seen 50-year-old docs and 19-year-old medics break down and sob. I don't give a rat's rump what they do to stay sane. And neither should you.

acrificing a life doesn't necessarily equate to killing someone.

I put off my life for years, because Uncle Sam called. Cost me money, time, career. And considering what others gave, it was nothing. I'm grateful to be here; a lot of people I knew didn't come home.

It's hell to be out of a job; that happened to me once, too. My thought is that what doesn't kill me, makes me stronger.

But that's just me.

Crisis doesn't make character.

It reveals it.

 

[Cristo Rei]

So what are you complaining about? You ever been in that kind of place?

I told u my complaint and yes i have spent time in hospital

Yeah. Decorum. You never had someone die in front of you, because no one could do anything to save them? I've seen 50-year-old docs and 19-year-old medics break down and sob. I don't give a rat's rump what they do to stay sane. And neither should you.

Sorry but I can't help but feel for the families of the deceased. It's called empathy.

I picture myself visiting a very sick loved one only to walk in on that kind of shocking display...
They may as well be dancing on peoples graves

 

[Yehren]

Sorry but I can't help but feel for the families of the deceased.

That didn't come across very well, if that's what you were trying to say.

It's called empathy.

But not for the people risking their lives on the front lines, it seems.

I picture myself visiting a very sick loved one only to walk in on that kind of shocking display...

You think it's like some kind of a musical production in patient areas? Seriously?

What are you thinking?

 

[Cristo Rei]

You think it's like some kind of a musical production in patient areas? Seriously?

What are you thinking?

Can't u read, i told u what i was thinking. Repeat...
I go to visit my mother who is terminally sick in palliative care and i find that happening outside her room

Its a lack of professionalism and respect being displayed
Their duty of care is for the sick. They can work on "keeping their sanity" after hours

 

[Angelina]

As a newbie I don't want to project my opinions and get into a political argument
Therefore I will just present some facts

Coronavirus numbers in perspective
Total deaths in the USA for 2019 was 2,813,503

The top fourteen causes of death were
647,457 Heart disease
599,108 Cancer
250,000 Medical errors
169,936 Accidents
160,201 Respiratory disease
121,404 Alzheimer’s
83,000 Diabetes
80,000 Pneumonia/ Flu
64,795 Accidental poisoning
47,173 Suicide
40,922 Blood poisoning from bacteria
36,336 Falls
35,823 Alcohol induced deaths
35,000 Antibiotic resistant bacteria

The total deaths of C19 in the USA at the moment is 62,603
Total deaths from C19 would be even lower given how they are recording them
The early C19 models had predicted 240,000 deaths in America


Has the lockdown saved many lives?
Sweden didn’t lockdown, their deaths per 1M is 233 compared to Americas 172
South Korea had no lockdown, deaths per1M is 210
Taiwan had no lockdown, deaths per1M is 0.3

After reviewing the data can we say this lockdown is reasonable, is there a hidden agenda, is C19 being used by some for financial gain?

Greetings brother @Cristo Rei. Our country in NZ, went into lockdown on March 26th. Today's update: 1,132 are confirmed cases. 19 deaths and 1,252 recovered which is a 85% recovery rate. We have approx 5 million people living here.

I question some of the reports coming from other countries simply because they can manipulate those numbers, especially if they want to get the economy back as quickly as they can. This is just my opinion.

 

[Yehren]

I go to visit my mother who is terminally sick in palliative care and i find that happening outside her room

I'm looking at the room, and it sure doesn't look like it's on a patient room wing. Take a closer look. This wasn't in your hospital, was it?

Why not tell us what's really eating you here?

 

[Yehren]

Greetings brother @Cristo Rei. Our country in NZ, went into lockdown on March 26th. Today's update: 1,132 are confirmed cases. 19 deaths and 1,252 recovered which is a 85% recovery rate.

I expect that when all cases are discovered, the actual recovery rate will be significantly higher than that. The true mortality rate is probably between 1 and 3 percent.

I question some of the reports coming from other countries simply because they can manipulate those numbers, especially if they want to get the economy back as quickly as they can.

One way to do this, is just don't test people. I don't know if that was the plan in the United States, or they just botched the effort, but we are missing a lot of cases, and a lot of deaths as well.

This is just my opinion.

You might be right.

 

[Cristo Rei]

I'm looking at the room, and it sure doesn't look like it's on a patient room wing. Take a closer look. This wasn't in your hospital, was it?

Why not tell us what's really eating you here?

LoL what do u think is eating me? Is something eating u?
I think your trying too hard to read something between the lines when there is nothing there mate

I, like most others, find it unacceptable to be dancing at work
U find it acceptable to be dancing at work. That's ok no big deal.

Just watch out for your boss but, ye...

 

[Cristo Rei]

Greetings brother @Cristo Rei. Our country in NZ, went into lockdown on March 26th. Today's update: 1,132 are confirmed cases. 19 deaths and 1,252 recovered which is a 85% recovery rate. We have approx 5 million people living here.

I question some of the reports coming from other countries simply because they can manipulate those numbers, especially if they want to get the economy back as quickly as they can. This is just my opinion.

Hi. R u from the north island or south?
I had an unforgettable ski trip about 10 years ago when we went to Queenstown and Wanaka
Gorgeous little lakeside towns up in the alps

We have similar numbers in Australia. Total cases and deaths per 1M
I question all the reports coming from the left and the right. I have a healthy skepticism I think
Some numbers looks weird, there are conflicting reports coming from the mainstream news vs cable news
There are conflicting medical opinions. There are conflict of interests. There are suspicious decisions and actions being taken

Something sinister seems to be going on