Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Let me just ask you this. Do you see any scripture which specifically talks about any people being tested after they are bodily resurrected? That seems uncomfortably similar to what Jehovah's Witnesses believe.
HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT: Why I believe this about the timing of the NHNE
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Talk about adding unto Scripture. You add 1000 years to text after text in order to let Premil fit. Well, this is forbidden in Scripture.
Sorry to burst your bubble, when Jesus comes it is the end.
Nice slur introduced at this point by you. It's what you typically do when you post - introducing a slur.
I'm not a JW and I do not need to be a JW in order to compare scripture with scripture.
Comparing scripture with scripture I see scripture that implies that the NHNE follows immediately after the return of Christ.
Comparing scripture with scripture I see what you deny - scripture teaching us that the first thousand years of the ages of the ages follows the return of Christ.
Comparing scripture with scripture I see what you deny - Satan being bound after the return of Christ - for a thousand years - in terms of his ability to deceive the nations.
Comparing scripture with scripture I see Satan NOT currently bound in terms of his ability to deceive the nations - something you deny.
Comparing scripture with scripture I see the conclusion of the events of the third chapter of the Bible (and the first three chapters of the Bible) in the third-last chapter of the Bible (and in the last three chapters of the Bible).
Comparing scripture with scripture I cannot see how non-regenerated creation (mortals) will co-exist with regenerated creation and immortals.
Comparing scripture with scripture I see Satan being loosed after a thousand years and permitted one last time to deceive mankind - not Adam and Eve this time - but the nations descended from them.
Comparing scripture with scripture I know that only God has life in Himself and the life of created human beings is in Christ, and the immortality of created human beings depends on this God-given life, and I see this immortality itself being God-given.
Comparing scripture with scripture I know that God our Creator is able to destroy both soul and body in the lake of fire.
Comparing scripture with scripture I see scripture implying that the nations deceived by Satan will believe - like Adam and Eve did - the lie of Satan "You will NOT surely die".
Comparing scripture with scripture I see this as implying that those nations who are deceived by Satan are immortals who died in Christ and were resurrected from the dead but have no root in themselves - their faith was shallow and is still shallow. They were not promised like those who overcome that the second death will have no authority over them.
Comparing scripture with scripture I see the second death as the destruction of death.
Comparing scripture with scripture I see the GWT coming at the close of the first thousand years of the ages of the ages.
Comparing scripture with scripture and having the Holy Spirit of Christ as my helper I recognized the motive behind your above slur, though that does not mean I do not regard you as someone who belongs to Christ. It means that though you belong to Christ, you are capable of sinning against a brother in Christ by slurring him with a FALSE implication that he shares JW doctrine with JW's and "therefore at the very least believes in false doctrine".
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I did not accuse you of being a JW. Get a grip. I'm saying that it seems uncomfortably similar to what they believe. They also believe that people will be resurrected and then will live on the earth and be judged on how they live after they are resurrected. I'm not saying you believe exactly as they do, but it's too close to what they believe for comfort, in my opinion.
The Holy Spirit would tell you to stop acting as if you can read my mind and that it should make you think about what you believe when it's similar to something JWs believe about the after life. Again, I'm not saying you are a JW or believe exactly the same as them, but your belief is similar to theirs in terms of what they believe about the resurrection of the dead and I think that should make you think twice about it.
You are far too overly sensitive sometimes. I did NOT imply that you share JW doctrine. I said it SEEMS uncomfortably SIMILAR to what they believe. You're acting as if I said your belief IS with 100% certainty the SAME as theirs, but I did not say that.
If you were not intending to imply something by it, then you would not have said it.
I have a grip. It's you who loses your grip whenever you choose to.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I explained what I meant by it. Did you not read my post? It wasn't that I was accusing you of being a JW.
You get angry and get offended very easily sometimes and you jump to conclusions like thinking that I was saying you are a JW, which I was not doing at all. People have to walk on eggshells talking to you.
This is all religious noise. You have zero corroboration to cover every single main tenet of Premil.
- Where else in Scripture is a thousand years mentioned after the second coming?
- Where in Scripture (including Rev 20) is Jesus shown to be on a millennial earth?
- Where else in Scripture is the binding of Satan?
- Where else in Scripture are the 2 future resurrections?
- Where else in Scripture are the 2 future judgments?
- Where else in Scripture is the release of Satan and an unparalleled global uprising 1,000 years after the second coming?
You will note: his evidence is his opinions. That is it. He thinks if he states an opinion, that makes it a fact. He is building is argument on sand.
Ronald D Milam
Well-Known Member
Wud have been easier just to name what NHNE was instead of others having to look it up. Jesus spoke to his 7 Churches about OVERCOMING. Then we see the Pre Trib. Rapture in Rev. 4:1 and in Rev. 4:4 (go look) we see the Church a God's THRONE, with WHITE RAIMENT on and who have Crowns on their heads. Just just described the Church Age in Rev. 2 & 3 and told us what we would have on in heaven, after we OVERCOME then God shows us a group of people in heaven with all those things, on their head were crowns ad they were wearing white robes, and sitting at God's THRONE. And the 24 Elders is a coded way to beckon us to look at 1 Chronicles 24, the 24 Orders of the Priesthood, in Rev. 1:6 and in Rev. 5:9-10 God calls us a Kings and Priests. You miss the Church being at the throne of Gid before Jesus ever opens the Seals, I wonder why you miss this. seems odd? You talk about those who OVERCOME then miss its first appearance, and the first appearance of men sitting at God's Throne.
I just showed you the Church in heaven with Jesus in Rev. 4:4.
The whole "Thief in the Night" can only be a Pre Trib. Rapture, any other notion fails the test of time. At the 2nd coming ay person who knows when the Anti-Christ conquered Israel could count 1260 days and now exactly when the 2nd coming of Jesus was. God loves his mixed up riddles, thus is why He jumbled up the book of Revelation out of order to start with.
In Zech. 13, we get the first 5 verses about Jesus blood i the END TIME Cleansing Israel a Fountain has been opened to cleanse them and they repent. In verses 8-9 we are told 1/3 (5 million by todays numbers) will repent whilst 2/3 refuses to do so and will die. All this is end time prophesy, in Zech. 14:1 we see the DOTL arrives and in vs. 2 Israel is sacked, so it is end times, but in Zech. 13:6-7 and odd thing happens, we see Jesus was betrayed by friends of his own house and his flock was scattered. This is how Prophesy sometimes works, God intermingles TWO PROPHESIES in one place who time is 2000 years apart, one 500 years after the prophesy and the other 2500 years after the prophesy, it makes the prophesy that much more dynamic and powerful.
Likewise, Jesus at the 6th Vial, will not show up like a thief at the 7th Vial, this is God mocking them, saying did I not tell you this would all happen like a thief in the night. The Pre Trib. Rapture sealed their fates, they WERE GOING THROUGH THE 70th Week Troubles/Tribulations, just like once the rain started there was no flood until a few days later but not getting on the Ark sealed their fate also. So, when Vial #6 happens, just before Jesus' 2nd coming, God through John reminded them, I TOLD YOU SO, you refused to heed my warnings, with talking points like, "Where is the Promise of his coming?" etc. etc.
We see this same group in Rev. 4:4, in Rev. 7 we see the 144,000 a CODE for ALL Israel who repents, so the 144,000 is the Jews Fleeing Judea at the AoD which happens JUST BEFORE God Wrath fall on mankind, because the Seals DO NOTHING except open the Scrolls with God's Wrath in them, the 7 Trumps = ALL of God's Wrath, the 7 Vials are the 3rd Woe, which comes forth from the 7th Trump. So, in Rev. 7 that is why God says HURT NOT the Earth, Tree nor Seas until the 144,000 (all Israel who repent, not every Jew) have been SEALED (by the holy spirit like us) and protected (in the Petra/Bozrah area). This is also why the 7th Seal is over in Rev. 8, it CAN NOT BE OPENED until Israel repents and Flees Judea to safety.
Those seen in Rev. 7:9-16 are the Pre Trib. Raptured Church which came out of MUCH TRIBULATION. In John 16:33 we are told by Jesus that in him we will have peace but in this [evil] world we will have continual tribulation. How many pf our brothers were murdered by the Romans? By the Muslims and Moore's by Jungle tries we tried to bring the Gospel unto? Millions and millions, we have troubles every day because the god of this world hates us, he never stops trying to harm us, but mostly if we live in the holy spirit and in the Western Cultures, we are pretty much, at least now, safe.
So, those were the Pre Trib. Raptured Church who came out of much TRIBULATION in this EVIL WORLD. The 5th Seal and Rev. 20:4 proves this is one stops and thinks it through logically. Jesus told those under the 5th Seal (who had not yet died by the way....it was a Prophetic Utterance, he FOREKNEW their hearts desires after they would soon die as Martyrs, but only after the Rev. 8 Asteroid hits earth. But the point is, Jesus SPECIFICALLY TOLD THEM..........they MUST WAIT for a Season before they could get vengeance, meaning for the Beasts 42 moth rule. Also, in Rev. 20:4 we see those Martyrs are RAISED & JUDGED only after the 2nd coming, so how could it be them in heaven? I am a realist and a dream dasher. It CAN NOT be them in Rev. 7 thus it can ONLY BE the Pre Trb. Raptured Church.
People instead of goin the extra mile, just seemingly accept way to much from other men, I used to do the same, but God wants to reveal these things unto us Himself.
3.) The THIRD POINT you make about the NHNE is not really a point tbh. Reread Rev. 20:4, ONLY THOSE who refused to take the Mark of the Beast (thus they have to have been on earth and gotten saved AFTER the Pre Trib. Rapture) will LIVE & REIGN with Jesus for 1000 years. Gid only needs so many with Glorious bodies under him, God hates idleness, and thus I assume God sends us the Bride of Christ to finish off New Jerusalem, thus as it Descends it will be called the Bride of Christ because we descend with it. But that happens after the 1000 year reign.
All those among us who believe the Word of God in Jesus Christ need to understand that Satan has never and will never receive his power to deceive the nations from God. He receives his power to deceive the nations when created human beings give him that power through believing (placing their faith in) the words of 'spiritual enlightenment' that originate in the father of lies, which are offered in opposition to the Word of God (Truth).
Satan has never been able to stop the spread of the gospel. Abel believed God and in the promise of the gospel, and God accepted His sacrifice. Noah believed God and in the gospel of the coming seed, and "being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith." Abraham believed God and in the gospel of the promised seed, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
Satan is not judged by God for the power created human beings have given him to deceive the nations - because God knows - and has told us - that the reason why created human beings give Satan power to deceive the nations is because some (many) of them LOVE DARKNESS rather than THE LIGHT, and this is BECAUSE THEIR deeds are evil (John 3:19).
in the Garden of Eden Satan was bound from offering his words of 'spiritual enlightenment' to created human beings in opposition to the Word of God (Truth) until the day God permitted him to do so. God withdrawing permission from the father of lies to offer words of 'spiritual enlightenment' to created human beings is what binds him - but he still receives no power to deceive the nations UNTIL his lying words of 'spiritual enlightenment' are believed by created human beings.
You know - we who believe in Jesus all know - that the day those created human beings believed his words of 'spiritual enlightenment' - which are always offered in opposition to the Word of God (Truth), those created human beings died - death came into their created bodies.
Created human beings who believe in (place their faith in) the Word of God who has become a human being (who is begotten, not created), who died for the sins of created human beings, and is risen from the dead, have passed from death to life.
But those created human beings who continue to give Satan power to deceive the nations through believing (placing their faith in) the words of 'spiritual enlightenment' which oppose the Word of God and which ALL originate in the father of lies, are condemned - because the reason they do so is because they LOVE DARKNESS rather than THE LIGHT, and this is BECAUSE THEIR deeds are evil.
So God has told us by what criteria created human beings will be judged either unto eternal life, or unto condemnation, and this status quo will continue for as long as God permits the words of 'spiritual enlightenment' originating in the father of ALL lies to be offered to created human beings.
For the first thousand years of the ages of the ages after our Savior has returned there will be no words of 'spiritual enlightenment' to oppose the Word of God, because God will not permit it to be so, and all those who are alive will have been resurrected from the dead bodily, each living in his own immortal body - just like Adam and and Eve were, before they sinned.
At the close of the thousand years God will permit the father of lies one last time to offer created human beings words of 'spiritual enlightnement' which oppose the Word of God (Truth) and imply that God is a liar
- so that each and every individual created human being which God created in His own image can be finally tested in order to ascertain how deep in himself the root of faith in the Word of God has been allowed by the individual to sink into his soul.
God has promised only those who overcome that Christ will not blot their names out of the book of life and that the second death will have no authority over them - and the God who created us is able to destroy both soul and body in the lake of fire. Jesus told us to fear Him. [/JUSTIFY]
Satan has never been able to stop the spread of the gospel. Abel believed God and in the promise of the gospel, and God accepted His sacrifice. Noah believed God and in the gospel of the coming seed, and "being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith." Abraham believed God and in the gospel of the promised seed, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
Satan is not judged by God for the power created human beings have given him to deceive the nations - because God knows - and has told us - that the reason why created human beings give Satan power to deceive the nations is because some (many) of them LOVE DARKNESS rather than THE LIGHT, and this is BECAUSE THEIR deeds are evil (John 3:19).
in the Garden of Eden Satan was bound from offering his words of 'spiritual enlightenment' to created human beings in opposition to the Word of God (Truth) until the day God permitted him to do so. God withdrawing permission from the father of lies to offer words of 'spiritual enlightenment' to created human beings is what binds him - but he still receives no power to deceive the nations UNTIL his lying words of 'spiritual enlightenment' are believed by created human beings.
You know - we who believe in Jesus all know - that the day those created human beings believed his words of 'spiritual enlightenment' - which are always offered in opposition to the Word of God (Truth), those created human beings died - death came into their created bodies.
Created human beings who believe in (place their faith in) the Word of God who has become a human being (who is begotten, not created), who died for the sins of created human beings, and is risen from the dead, have passed from death to life.
But those created human beings who continue to give Satan power to deceive the nations through believing (placing their faith in) the words of 'spiritual enlightenment' which oppose the Word of God and which ALL originate in the father of lies, are condemned - because the reason they do so is because they LOVE DARKNESS rather than THE LIGHT, and this is BECAUSE THEIR deeds are evil.
So God has told us by what criteria created human beings will be judged either unto eternal life, or unto condemnation, and this status quo will continue for as long as God permits the words of 'spiritual enlightenment' originating in the father of ALL lies to be offered to created human beings.
For the first thousand years of the ages of the ages after our Savior has returned there will be no words of 'spiritual enlightenment' to oppose the Word of God, because God will not permit it to be so, and all those who are alive will have been resurrected from the dead bodily, each living in his own immortal body - just like Adam and and Eve were, before they sinned.
At the close of the thousand years God will permit the father of lies one last time to offer created human beings words of 'spiritual enlightnement' which oppose the Word of God (Truth) and imply that God is a liar
- so that each and every individual created human being which God created in His own image can be finally tested in order to ascertain how deep in himself the root of faith in the Word of God has been allowed by the individual to sink into his soul.
God has promised only those who overcome that Christ will not blot their names out of the book of life and that the second death will have no authority over them - and the God who created us is able to destroy both soul and body in the lake of fire. Jesus told us to fear Him. [/JUSTIFY]
AN ADVERSARY EXISTING IN A KING'S KINGDOM
It's logical that if a king has an adversary in his kingdom who is causing disruption, killing or harming the king's subjects, deceiving as many as he can, continuously encouraging dissent against the king and continuously calling the king's authority and integrity into question,
then if the king wants to put a stop to it, he would need to either bind the adversary and lock him in a dungeon, rendering the adversary completely unable to cause more harm, or simply destroy the adversary,
but if the king in his wisdom and sovereign will continues to permit the adversary for a season and a time to continue, whether it be in order to separate the king's loyal and faithful subjects from his adversaries or for any other reason, then this choice and decision is within the king's sovereign right.
then if the king wants to put a stop to it, he would need to either bind the adversary and lock him in a dungeon, rendering the adversary completely unable to cause more harm, or simply destroy the adversary,
but if the king in his wisdom and sovereign will continues to permit the adversary for a season and a time to continue, whether it be in order to separate the king's loyal and faithful subjects from his adversaries or for any other reason, then this choice and decision is within the king's sovereign right.
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