Home-schooling

[junobet]

Hi there, in the other thread this is off-topic, so I just started a new one. I hope that’s ok with you.

You have your facts mixed up, my German friend. There has been more than one family in Germany adversely affected by Germany's outlawing of home schooling. My understanding is that the German home school law is a remnant of Hitler's takeover and brainwashing of the youth in your country.

​

Uwe and Hannelore Romeike and their six children fled Germany in 2008 to seek asylum in the United States so they could home-school their children. Adolf Hitler had banned home schooling in 1938 and the law was never repealed. Rather, it appears the German government has ramped up its opposition to home schooling in the last decade.​

​

The German Supreme Court has stated that the purpose of the home-school ban is to “counteract the development of religious and philosophically motivated parallel societies”

As evangelical Christians, the Romeike parents became aware that the German public school material undermined their own religious beliefs. In 2006, they withdrew their children from the system. But after two years of police visits, plus about $10,000 in fines, the Romeike family decided to seek asylum in the United States. The Homeschool Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) took up their case.​

​

Source: Fighting Germany's home school ban​

You don't believe that parents should have the right to raise their children as they see fit? Here in America, the prevailing belief has been that parents do have a right to raise our children as we see fit.​

Well, yes, Hitler certainly was keen to enforce the German “Schulpflicht” after he had turned the school-system into a Nazi-Propaganda-Apparatus. But it was actually already around in the Weimar Republic. And even before that the Schulpflicht was around: My Granddad was born in 1895 in Prussia and he certainly would not have been allowed to skip school just because his parents needed him on the farm’s fields.

In fact the very idea of public schooling in Germany goes way back to Martin Luther, who wanted every child to learn how to read the Bible itself so that it could form its own opinions on it.

Enabling children to form their own opinion is certainly not what Hitler hoped for and sadly it seems it’s also not what the Romeike parents want. Why else keep your children shielded from society? Why not let their children learn all about Darwin in school, hope they write a brilliant essay on evolution and finish it with the sentence “Personally I don’t believe Darwins findings hold water, because I’m a creationist?” Are they the Romeike's that unconvinced of their own argument?

The German Supreme Court was correct when it stated that the purpose of the home-school ban is to “counteract the development of religious and philosophically motivated parallel societies”. After WWII the Allied forces had it in the Potsdam declaration that German children should be taught democratic values at school. Hence my horror when I saw the Louis Theroux’s feature on an American Nazi-family home-schooling their kids in order to make them racist. To me that was child abuse. Also I’m glad that my boys Muslim classmates must interact with Western society in school. Would you grant their parents the same right that you demand for the Romeike’s?

I'm pleased that you got a taste of home schooling. Even though I'm a certified teacher and taught in the public schools, I ended up home schooling my children. It was one of the biggest blessings of my life.[FONT=verdana,Arial,sans-serif] [[/FONT]/QUOTE]

Well, yeah, even though I got almost nothing else done, it was really nice to spend that much time with my kid. However, I could have done with some teaching skills. I happen to have a university degree in educational sciences, but I did not specialize on primary school didactics. Plus: I’ve been using a calculator for the past thirty years, so I’ve had to get my head around how to do written divisions all over again. But at least I tried. I shudder to think how other children fared. Some parents in my boy’s class don’t even speak German. How were they to help with German grammar? And what all children lacked in the past months: the vital interaction with their classmates. Children just need other children to develop proper social skills. Thank God, school will be back next Monday over here. Let’s pray all goes well with Corona then.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Well, yes, Hitler certainly was keen to enforce the German “Schulpflicht” after he had turned the school-system into a Nazi-Propaganda-Apparatus. But it was actually already around in the Weimar Republic. And even before that the Schulpflicht was around: My Granddad was born in 1895 in Prussia and he certainly would not have been allowed to skip school just because his parents needed him on the farm’s fields.

Thanks for sharing this info. Very interesting.

Enabling children to form their own opinion is certainly not what Hitler hoped for and sadly it seems it’s also not what the Romeike parents want. Why else keep your children shielded from society? Why not let their children learn all about Darwin in school, hope they write a brilliant essay on evolution and finish it with the sentence “Personally I don’t believe Darwins findings hold waterbecause I’m a creationist?” Are they that unconvinced of their own argument?

You and I see this very differently. I am a strong believer that God gave children to parents to raise because parents have the strongest interest in their children succeeding in life. Also, parents tend to know their children better than anyone. When a mom carries and child in her womb and gives birth and feeds and nurtures that child, she really comes to know the child.

As far as schooling, the publics schools in America used to be strong academically, but they have become weak, generally speaking. Many American parents who home school their children want to ensure that they receive the best education. When I home schooled my three kids, I made sure that they all became very good readers. I agree with Martin Luther that children need to be able to read the Bible for themselves...and other books as well. My kids became such avid readers, I had a hard time finding enough good books for them to read. I made sure to teach my children about evolution (which is explained in all textbooks) and other controversial topics.

The German Supreme Court was correct when it stated that the purpose of the home-school ban is to “counteract the development of religious and philosophically motivated parallel societies”. After WWII the Allied forces had it in the Potsdam declaration that German children should be taught democratic values at school. Hence my horror when I saw the Louis Theroux’s feature on an American Nazi-family home-schooling their kids in order to make them racist. To me that was child abuse. Also I’m glad that my boys Muslim classmates must interact with Western society in school. Would you grant their parents the same right that you demand for the Romeike’s?

Banning home schooling because it might create a parallel society sounds paranoid to me. It sounds like Germany is afraid that people WILL think for themselves instead of the groupthink taught in schools.

I've known many home school family here in American, and I've never heard that any of them home schooled in order to make their children racists. I'm not saying this doesn't happen, but this sounds very farfetched to me. If this is happening in America, I doubt that this applies to many families. Contrary to what you believe, I would grant Muslim parents the same rights I would grant the Romeikes.

You said: Well, yeah, even though I got almost nothing else done, it was really nice to spend that much time with my kid. However, I could have done with some teaching skills. I happen to have a university degree in educational sciences, but I did not specialize on primary school didactics. Plus: I’ve been using a calculator for the past thirty years, so I’ve had to get my head around how to do written divisions all over again. But at least I tried. I shudder to think how other children fared. Some parents in my boy’s class don’t even speak German. How were they to help with German grammar? And what all children lacked in the past months: the vital interaction with their classmates. Children just need other children to develop proper social skills. Thank God, school will be back next Monday over here. Let’s pray all goes well with Corona then.

I know what you mean about forgetting basic math functions after using a calculator for so long! But I've been teaching my children and tutoring other people's children for so many years, I've been able to keep up with these skills.

As a pubic school teacher, I came to believe that children need families to learn proper social skills. You put a bunch of kids in a room together all day, and they tend to learn bad thing from each other, lol. This is what I observed with my public school students.

It's been nice chatting with you. Many blessings to you and your family!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Personally, I don't feel comfortable commenting on another country's laws, especially when I have so little idea of the laws themselves, the history, and current culture driving things.

Speaking as an American, I don't have any problem with people here homeschooling, public schooling, private school, or whatever. I'm not really concerned about which vector information is being delivered by. I'm much more concerned that about the content of that information: strong practical academic, social skills, and general good character.

Regardless of the delivery vector of formal schooling, parents (or other responsible adults) should be involved in their kid's education & lives. Supporting them, helping them learn, reinforcing the good lessons, and filling in the gaps where things came up short.




Another thought I have learned from quarantine-schooling (which is different than actual home-schooling): is that my daughter's best teachers are her parents. We know her best, and know the best way to set things up so she learns and enjoys it. I also learned that we need other teachers too. That no matter how awesome hubby and I, that village-choir of other people supporting and singing in their own voices is also so needed.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Personally, I don't feel comfortable commenting on another country's laws, especially when I have so little idea of the laws themselves, the history, and current culture driving things.

If you ever want to learn about this, HSLDA is a great place to get info.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

If you ever want to learn about this, HSLDA is a great place to get info.

Honestly, I would only feel comfortable with first-hand learning: living & learning there myself for several years.

Edit--
Note: I thought you were talking about German laws.

General homeschooling is.... not for us right now. DD really benefits from the social environment. I have freinds that homeschool, and that's great for them.

 

[junobet]

Thanks for sharing this info. Very interesting.



You and I see this very differently. I am a strong believer that God gave children to parents to raise because parents have the strongest interest in their children succeeding in life. Also, parents tend to know their children better than anyone. When a mom carries and child in her womb and gives birth and feeds and nurtures that child, she really comes to know the child.

We do indeed see this from very different perspectives. You focus on parental rights and I focus on the childrens' rights.


Maybe what adds to my perspective is that my boy is a foster-kid, who has not seen the woman who gave birth to him in years. He’s still working on the traumata she inflicted on him. Sadly there are lots of children like him out there, who would still suffer abuse and neglect if kindergartens/the school-system had not raised the alarm.

As far as schooling, the publics schools in America used to be strong academically, but they have become weak, generally speaking. Many American parents who home school their children want to ensure that they receive the best education. When I home schooled my three kids, I made sure that they all became very good readers. I agree with Martin Luther that children need to be able to read the Bible for themselves...and other books as well. My kids became such avid readers, I had a hard time finding enough good books for them to read. I made sure to teach my children about evolution (which is explained in all textbooks) and other controversial topics.

I’m sure you made a fine home-school-teacher, but can home-schooling really be the answer to a failing public school system?

Not every parent is a trained teacher. Personally I’m glad I only had to teach a primary school kid. A-levels in English, French, Latin, mathematics, physics … ? No parent is that much of a polymath, not even the highly educated ones.

So to give every child a chance at a good education, would it not make more sense to see to it that the public school-system doesn’t fall into decay? For example by voting for politicians who are willing to give it adequate funding?

​

Banning home schooling because it might create a parallel society sounds paranoid to me. It sounds like Germany is afraid that people WILL think for themselves instead of the groupthink taught in schools.

In my experience German schools don’t teach group-think, but encourage children to think for themselves. For example I had a politics teacher, who was as conservative as they come. Being the pacifist anarcho-syndicalist punk that I was as a teen, man, did I get into heated discussions with him. I hated his cynical guts and his smirks. But then he surprised me by giving me the best marks at the end of term. Not because I had convinced him of my political views, but because he appreciated the ability to make an argument for them.

Of course teachers are supposed to be neutral, but everybody in school knew my chemistry teacher was a commie, my biology teacher a staunch Catholic, my Latin teacher was in the local SPD and my German teacher in the CDU. There were kids whose parents were hippies, kids whose parents were in the police, kids whose parents were rich, kids whose parents were poor … School has an important enculturating function exactly because it does not limit you to just the one perspective on life that happens to be your family’s, but gives you a broader spectrum of society.

I've known many home school family here in American, and I've never heard that any of them home schooled in order to make their children racists. I'm not saying this doesn't happen, but this sounds very farfetched to me. If this is happening in America, I doubt that this applies to many families. Contrary to what you believe, I would grant Muslim parents the same rights I would grant the Romeikes.

If you want to get the creeps, watch it: Louis and the Nazis - Wikipedia

Granted: this is a TV programme that’s seeking out the extraordinary. But alas, the US has as much of a Nazi-problem as the next country, and no I don’t think home-schooling Nazis have a right to indoctrinate their children. Nor do I think home-schooling ISIS supporters have a right to raise their children into the next generation of terrorists.

It honours you that you at least apply the same standards to a family whose religious views you don’t share as to the Romeike-family. But from my point of view everybody’s right to not become part of mainstream society ends where they rob their children of the chance to make that choice on their own.

You said: Well, yeah, even though I got almost nothing else done, it was really nice to spend that much time with my kid. However, I could have done with some teaching skills. I happen to have a university degree in educational sciences, but I did not specialize on primary school didactics. Plus: I’ve been using a calculator for the past thirty years, so I’ve had to get my head around how to do written divisions all over again. But at least I tried. I shudder to think how other children fared. Some parents in my boy’s class don’t even speak German. How were they to help with German grammar? And what all children lacked in the past months: the vital interaction with their classmates. Children just need other children to develop proper social skills. Thank God, school will be back next Monday over here. Let’s pray all goes well with Corona then.

I know what you mean about forgetting basic math functions after using a calculator for so long! But I've been teaching my children and tutoring other people's children for so many years, I've been able to keep up with these skills.

As a pubic school teacher, I came to believe that children need families to learn proper social skills. You put a bunch of kids in a room together all day, and they tend to learn bad thing from each other, lol. This is what I observed with my public school students.

You say the place for learning social skills is the family and that is true. But there comes the time when children also need peers of the same age to develop the social skills they’ll need in life. It certainly was not the academics my boy missed during lock-down: It was the wealth of his social life in school. It's in school where children take the first steps into a life of their own, learn how to make friends, get into conflicts, solve them etc.. Always being kept in the nest, won’t teach them how to fly. And yes, of course children will pick up swear-words in school, but in my experience they’ll also pick up when it’s not appropriate to use them. ​

It's been nice chatting with you. Many blessings to you and your family!

Many blessings to your family, too. Stay safe in these tumultuous times.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

We do indeed see this from very different perspectives. You focus on parental rights and I focus on the childrens' rights.

Maybe what adds to my perspective is that my boy is a foster-kid, who has not seen the woman who gave birth to him in years. He’s still working on the traumata she inflicted on him. Sadly there are lots of children like him out there, who would still suffer abuse and neglect if kindergartens/the school-system had not raised the alarm.

I'm sorry to hear about how your boy was traumatized. I know this must be very difficult for him to deal with.

I believe that most parents have our children's best interests at heart, so you can't judge all parents based on the irresponsible ones.

I’m sure you made a fine home-school-teacher, but can home-schooling really be the answer to a failing public school system?

Not every parent is a trained teacher. Personally I’m glad I only had to teach a primary school kid. A-levels in English, French, Latin, mathematics, physics … ? No parent is that much of a polymath, not even the highly educated ones.

So to give every child a chance at a good education, would it not make more sense to see to it that the public school-system doesn’t fall into decay? For example by voting for politicians who are willing to give it adequate funding?

Many home-schooled children in America have higher standardized test scores than public school children. These tests compare skill levels of children across the United States.

Even though I'm a certified teacher, I know that this is not necessary to be a good teacher. There are some good curricula available to home school parents. And many parents take advantage of co-ops that offer classes taught by certified teachers....

In my experience German schools don’t teach group-think, but encourage children to think for themselves. For example I had a politics teacher, who was as conservative as they come. Being the pacifist anarcho-syndicalist punk that I was as a teen, man, did I get into heated discussions with him. I hated his cynical guts and his smirks. But then he surprised me by giving me the best marks at the end of term. Not because I had convinced him of my political views, but because he appreciated the ability to make an argument for them.

Of course teachers are supposed to be neutral, but everybody in school knew my chemistry teacher was a commie, my biology teacher a staunch Catholic, my Latin teacher was in the local SPD and my German teacher in the CDU. There were kids whose parents were hippies, kids whose parents were in the police, kids whose parents were rich, kids whose parents were poor … School has an important enculturating function exactly because it does not limit you to just the one perspective on life that happens to be your family’s, but gives you a broader spectrum of society.

You were a "pacifist anarcho-syndicalist punk"? I've never heard this term. You must have been horrible, lol!

My kids are on social media, getting to know people from around the world, and we watch quite a few TV shows with various perspectives represented. My kids are young adults now, and they definitely know how to think for themselves. But I have also taught them what the Bible says about life. I think this is important for them to know.

I'll look at the link you posted. Sounds interesting.

You say the place for learning social skills is the family and that is true. But there comes the time when children also need peers of the same age to develop the social skills they’ll need in life. It certainly was not the academics my boy missed during lock-down: It was the wealth of his social life in school. It's in school where children take the first steps into a life of their own, learn how to make friends, get into conflicts, solve them etc.. Always being kept in the nest, won’t teach them how to fly. And yes, of course children will pick up swear-words in school, but in my experience they’ll also pick up when it’s not appropriate to use them.

I agree that kids need time with their peers. Many home school families are part of a home school group or church. What I was saying is that spending all day in a room full of peers is not the best way for children to learn socialization skills. I have a college degree in psychology, and I learned that one of the prominent social psychologists was a Communist named Vygotsky. I don't think we need the Communists telling us how to socialize our children. Maybe you feel differently, but that's how I feel about it.

Good talking to you, as usual. I pray that you and your family will be safe and blessed!

 

[junobet]

I'm sorry to hear about how your boy was traumatized. I know this must be very difficult for him to deal with.

I believe that most parents have our children's best interests at heart, so you can't judge all parents based on the irresponsible ones.

Thank God most children have loving and caring parents and I’m not judging all parents by the irresponsible ones. However, there are very many children whose family life is a living hell. If abusive parents don’t have to send their kids to school, they won’t even have to hide the bruises anymore. So compulsory school for everybody is an important security net for the weakest in society.

Many home-schooled children in America have higher standardized test scores than public school children. These tests compare skill levels of children across the United States.

Even though I'm a certified teacher, I know that this is not necessary to be a good teacher. There are some good curricula available to home school parents. And many parents take advantage of co-ops that offer classes taught by certified teachers....

I’m sure there are great provisions for home schooling in the US and other countries that allow for it.

But home-schooled kids faring well in exams does not say much statistically if you don’t count out the factor that home-schooling parents are likely to be well off/therefore likely to have a college degree and an interest in education. Even within the school-system children from such families have a better chance of succeeding.

That brings me back to the necessity of a well-equipped public school system, a school-system that gives the children of a single-mum working three jobs a chance to succeed also.

You were a "pacifist anarcho-syndicalist punk"? I've never heard this term. You must have been horrible, lol!

Yepp, I was among the quirky kids in school. Still am in a way, but by now my bones are too brittle for pogo-dancing.

My kids are on social media, getting to know people from around the world, and we watch quite a few TV shows with various perspectives represented. My kids are young adults now, and they definitely know how to think for themselves. But I have also taught them what the Bible says about life. I think this is important for them to know.

Glad to hear your kids tuned out just fine.
And I agree that it is important to know the Bible. However, I can only ever teach my child what I think the Bible says. I’m quite pleased he also gets different perspectives in the religion lessons at his Catholic primary school. (It’s one of the oddities of the German school system that there are lessons in either Catholic or Protestant and sometimes Islamic religion. Those are the only lessons parents can exempt their kids from until the children are 14 and deemed old enough to decide on their own wether they want to do religion or not.)

I'll look at the link you posted. Sounds interesting.



I agree that kids need time with their peers. Many home school families are part of a home school group or church. What I was saying is that spending all day in a room full of peers is not the best way for children to learn socialization skills. I have a college degree in psychology, and I learned that one of the prominent social psychologists was a Communist named Vygotsky. I don't think we need the Communists telling us how to socialize our children. Maybe you feel differently, but that's how I feel about it.

Frankly I never heard of Vygotsky and just quickly looked him up. It seems Stalin did not like him very much, so you may want to give his work another chance. Just because somebody was a commie/happened to live in a commie-country, doesn’t necessarily mean they never had any good ideas.


I’m glad you realize the importance of peers in a child’s socialisation. But while Sunday-school, sport’s clubs and the like are cool, there’s nothing like school to get kids out of their bubble and let them face that wild real world out there in which they have to find a place.

Again I may of course be viewing this through the lense of my personal situation: One of the things our foster-son had difficulties with when he first moved in with us, was appropriate social interaction with other children. He could not have made the enormous progress he’s made in his social/emotional development, had it not been for spending all morning with other kids in school. In a week’s time he’ll be leaving primary school and if it wasn’t for Corona, I’d give all teachers and social workers there a big hug for not giving up on him ever, even though helping him to integrate was tough at times.

Good talking to you, as usual. I pray that you and your family will be safe and blessed!

You too

 

[kcnalp]

I read that some home schoolers were getting expelled during the pandemic. lol

 

[Scoot]

Why not let their children learn all about Darwin in school, hope they write a brilliant essay on evolution and finish it with the sentence “Personally I don’t believe Darwins findings hold water, because I’m a creationist?”

Oh how I wish evolution was the big problem with public schools these days. Now we have schools introducing information on sex at too young ages - and that misinformation about sex - encouraging kids that they should experiment to find out what sexual orientation they are. Abstinence not even mentioned (unless it's as a derogatory joke)

And recently even further with the whole gender fluidity thing. In some schools having kids exposed to children of the opposite sex in bathrooms because of their choice in gender.

And schools being used to question kids to get an idea of what's going on at home. So many kids abused, and apparently the system doesn't have 'the evidence' to rescue so many children - yet if a child says that their parents won't let them change their name to one of the opposite sex - watch out.

I see that the public education system has been invaded with people that are no longer wanting to teach education, but indoctrinate children on ideologies.

I was well prepared to home school here and take whatever sacrifice we needed to do. Thankfully we were able to get into a Christian private school that offers a certain level of protection from the wickedness and evil that has infiltrated our government education sector.

I believe in choices. Each child is different. Some public schools may be OK - and better suited for some kids. Other kids may need home schooling for their particular needs. Add to this that I believe in small government, and parents being left alone with their families (except for obvious cases of abuse) - in the end I'm a very strong supporter for homeschooling remaining an option.

Or have I posted to the off-topic thread off-topically?

 

[kcnalp]

Oh how I wish evolution was the big problem with public schools these days. Now we have schools introducing information on sex at too young ages - and that misinformation about sex - encouraging kids that they should experiment to find out what sexual orientation they are. Abstinence not even mentioned (unless it's as a derogatory joke)

And recently even further with the whole gender fluidity thing. In some schools having kids exposed to children of the opposite sex in bathrooms because of their choice in gender.

And schools being used to question kids to get an idea of what's going on at home. So many kids abused, and apparently the system doesn't have 'the evidence' to rescue so many children - yet if a child says that their parents won't let them change their name to one of the opposite sex - watch out.

I see that the public education system has been invaded with people that are no longer wanting to teach education, but indoctrinate children on ideologies.

I was well prepared to home school here and take whatever sacrifice we needed to do. Thankfully we were able to get into a Christian private school that offers a certain level of protection from the wickedness and evil that has infiltrated our government education sector.

I believe in choices. Each child is different. Some public schools may be OK - and better suited for some kids. Other kids may need home schooling for their particular needs. Add to this that I believe in small government, and parents being left alone with their families (except for obvious cases of abuse) - in the end I'm a very strong supporter for homeschooling remaining an option.

Or have I posted to the off-topic thread off-topically?

Many kids who have phones or computers know more about sex than their parents.

 

[Brakelite]

My son in law was the principal of a Christian School. My daughter a qualified teacher. She home schooled my grandchildren until such time as she ended up being asked to work full time at the same school.
Public curriculum, no matter where you come from, presents a worldview in direct contradiction to the Christian worldview. And even Christian Schools cannot legally offer the kind of education they would prefer. And now with the recent decision by the Supreme Court, who knows what or who will be teaching your children in the future.
Home schooling, using approved curriculum and with support from dedicated interest groups and professionals, will always be better than public schools.
And as far as being socially well adjusted through the public system? What does that mean? It means you are risking your children's eternal destinies against temporary oneness with the world...a world that hates Christian values and despises those that promote them.

And as far as the German public system is concerned, I would tend to believe it more in line with Catholic ideology rather than Lutheran. I have listened to some brilliant investigative lectures on education in Europe. From what I've learned the most influential group in transforming modem Education in Europe and others even the world were the Jesuits. I don't think they promoted Lutheran ideals.

 

[aspen]

many parents are not qualified or disciplined enough to homeschool

 

[Brakelite]

many parents are not qualified or disciplined enough to homeschool

And many more don't care enough.

 

[quietthinker]

We do indeed see this from very different perspectives. You focus on parental rights and I focus on the childrens' rights.


Maybe what adds to my perspective is that my boy is a foster-kid, who has not seen the woman who gave birth to him in years. He’s still working on the traumata she inflicted on him. Sadly there are lots of children like him out there, who would still suffer abuse and neglect if kindergartens/the school-system had not raised the alarm.



I’m sure you made a fine home-school-teacher, but can home-schooling really be the answer to a failing public school system?

Not every parent is a trained teacher. Personally I’m glad I only had to teach a primary school kid. A-levels in English, French, Latin, mathematics, physics … ? No parent is that much of a polymath, not even the highly educated ones.

So to give every child a chance at a good education, would it not make more sense to see to it that the public school-system doesn’t fall into decay? For example by voting for politicians who are willing to give it adequate funding?

​

In my experience German schools don’t teach group-think, but encourage children to think for themselves. For example I had a politics teacher, who was as conservative as they come. Being the pacifist anarcho-syndicalist punk that I was as a teen, man, did I get into heated discussions with him. I hated his cynical guts and his smirks. But then he surprised me by giving me the best marks at the end of term. Not because I had convinced him of my political views, but because he appreciated the ability to make an argument for them.

Of course teachers are supposed to be neutral, but everybody in school knew my chemistry teacher was a commie, my biology teacher a staunch Catholic, my Latin teacher was in the local SPD and my German teacher in the CDU. There were kids whose parents were hippies, kids whose parents were in the police, kids whose parents were rich, kids whose parents were poor … School has an important enculturating function exactly because it does not limit you to just the one perspective on life that happens to be your family’s, but gives you a broader spectrum of society.


If you want to get the creeps, watch it: Louis and the Nazis - Wikipedia

Granted: this is a TV programme that’s seeking out the extraordinary. But alas, the US has as much of a Nazi-problem as the next country, and no I don’t think home-schooling Nazis have a right to indoctrinate their children. Nor do I think home-schooling ISIS supporters have a right to raise their children into the next generation of terrorists.

It honours you that you at least apply the same standards to a family whose religious views you don’t share as to the Romeike-family. But from my point of view everybody’s right to not become part of mainstream society ends where they rob their children of the chance to make that choice on their own.

You say the place for learning social skills is the family and that is true. But there comes the time when children also need peers of the same age to develop the social skills they’ll need in life. It certainly was not the academics my boy missed during lock-down: It was the wealth of his social life in school. It's in school where children take the first steps into a life of their own, learn how to make friends, get into conflicts, solve them etc.. Always being kept in the nest, won’t teach them how to fly. And yes, of course children will pick up swear-words in school, but in my experience they’ll also pick up when it’s not appropriate to use them. ​

Many blessings to your family, too. Stay safe in these tumultuous times.

junobet...I think there is more to education than academia, far more in fact.....like learning how to relate with self, others (both sexes) the environment in a healthy (responsible) way is hardly something learn't in real terms in a public school system. If parents have poor values and beliefs will the children learn better ones in the schooling system of today? ....If the parents have healthy values and beliefs and guide their children accordingly wouldn't this be an advantage irrespective of where they are schooled?

Now you might ask how can that be regulated in a society.....well, I don't think it can unless there is a dictatorial element like in the times of Hitler.

As an example, look at Daniel and his friends.....taken captive, no doubt in their teenage years......dragged to Babylon and educated in that system. I think it a credit to their parents to have guided their Sons in a way where the higher values were absorbed.....values which were guides through life and gave them strength when challenged.

Another example is Esther.

 

[kcnalp]

many parents are not qualified or disciplined enough to homeschool

My wife didn't finish HS. She home schooled our son. He graduated from IUPUI.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

many parents are not qualified or disciplined enough to homeschool

Lol, what qualifies you to make such a statement??

 

[Prayer Warrior]

My son in law was the principal of a Christian School. My daughter a qualified teacher. She home schooled my grandchildren until such time as she ended up being asked to work full time at the same school.

Yeah, when people find out that I was a public school teacher who home schooled my children, they are surprised. A lot has changed in the public school systems of America since I was a child. SCOTUS basically threw God out of our schools with several unfortunate decisions. Things went downhill from there.

Public curriculum, no matter where you come from, presents a worldview in direct contradiction to the Christian worldview.

And as far as being socially well adjusted through the public system? What does that mean? It means you are risking your children's eternal destinies against temporary oneness with the world...a world that hates Christian values and despises those that promote them.

I agree, and this should be the main concern of Christian parents!!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Thank God most children have loving and caring parents and I’m not judging all parents by the irresponsible ones. However, there are very many children whose family life is a living hell. If abusive parents don’t have to send their kids to school, they won’t even have to hide the bruises anymore. So compulsory school for everybody is an important security net for the weakest in society.

Yes, there are children who suffer in bad families. I lived in a neighborhood years ago where two young teenaged girls would roam the streets sometimes during school hours. When I saw them at the house of someone I thought was possibly dealing drugs, I called the truant officer at their school and told her the situation. Unfortunately, she was very rude and didn't seem to care....

The fact is that many public school children fall through the cracks and don't receive the help they need. IOW, attending a public school doesn't ensure that children who are being abused get help. Sadly, some children are abused by teachers and others in the public schools. In America there has been what seems like a rash of female teachers having sex with their young male students.

I’m sure there are great provisions for home schooling in the US and other countries that allow for it.

But home-schooled kids faring well in exams does not say much statistically if you don’t count out the factor that home-schooling parents are likely to be well off/therefore likely to have a college degree and an interest in education. Even within the school-system children from such families have a better chance of succeeding.

That brings me back to the necessity of a well-equipped public school system, a school-system that gives the children of a single-mum working three jobs a chance to succeed also.

What you say about home schooling parents being well-off is not what I have seen at all, and many don't have college degrees (which really isn't necessary to home school). So, these factors don't account for the better standardized test scored of many home schoolers.

Many factors account for the higher tests scores of home schooled students. I have used several of the most widely-used home school curricula, and I can say that they are strong on basic skills, like teaching math facts (1+1=2...). They are also strong in teaching systematic phonics (all of the letter sounds and blends), which most kids need in order to become strong independent readers.

Also, home schooled students tend to get a lot more one-on-one time with their teacher, usually the mom. As a public school teacher, I mostly taught 8th-grade English. Sometimes, I had as many as forty students in a class. Needless to say, I wasn't able to give students much help. English can be a very tricky language because there are so many exceptions to the rules. (I must say that your English is very good.) Imagine trying to teach a room full of young teenagers the finer points of English grammar.

I’m glad you realize the importance of peers in a child’s socialisation. But while Sunday-school, sport’s clubs and the like are cool, there’s nothing like school to get kids out of their bubble and let them face that wild real world out there in which they have to find a place.

Well, as far as children facing "the wild real world out there," I don't think it's good for young children to have to face this on their own. IMO, it's like throwing a child into shark-infested water to teach him to swim. They can learn to face the big, bad world with a parent holding their hand at first. Then, as they get older, they can learn to stand on their own two feet....

Again I may of course be viewing this through the lense of my personal situation: One of the things our foster-son had difficulties with when he first moved in with us, was appropriate social interaction with other children. He could not have made the enormous progress he’s made in his social/emotional development, had it not been for spending all morning with other kids in school. In a week’s time he’ll be leaving primary school and if it wasn’t for Corona, I’d give all teachers and social workers there a big hug for not giving up on him ever, even though helping him to integrate was tough at times.

I have some insights about social development that may interest you. I worked with several children who were adopted--one as a baby, but the other two as young children. One thing I noticed is that they didn't have the stability that comes from bonding with parents from the womb, especially with the mom. I believe that the unborn baby begins to bond while IN the womb. These children struggle with forming strong social bonds even though they attended school and other social functions.

I'm not saying that this applies to ALL adopted children. It seems that most are able to form bonds, but perhaps because two of these children were not adopted as babies, this has affected them into their teens.

Yepp, I was among the quirky kids in school. Still am in a way, but by now my bones are too brittle for pogo-dancing.

Hey, sometimes it's the quirky kids who grow up to do great things in life!
.

 

[aspen]

Lol, what qualifies you to make such a statement??

Well, I am a social worker and work with children and families, so there's that