Homosexual Church Dream

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Helen

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Just a quick reminder here.

Lets get the scripture right. What does God say?

Ez 16:48-50

49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen
. "

Amazingly God did not mention sex one way or the other!!

Just reminding us...
These days some Christians try to make homosexuality the worst sin on earth. But it doesn't seem by the word , that God agrees.

.. anyway, there are no better sins than others, or larger sins. Sin is sin.
Just like it says the law is the law...break one and you have broken them all...ye that wish to live by the law....

Just saying :)
 

Helen

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But it isn't the only sin to be accepted as normal is it? Adultery and unmarried sex have also been normalised. And so has lying and other 'lesser' sin as well as abortion. I do not condone homosexuality at all but what I do think is that we should not automatically shun people who practice it but draw them to Christ with love. If they choose to carry on with their chosen lifestyle that is up to them but hate is a sin too and we must not hate them. But I do think that if they decide to follow Jesus then they need to repent of their former lifestyle and abstain from that type of sex just as anybody would be expected to turn away from their former sinful lifestyle and live their lives God's way.

Amen, and the very point I was trying to make just now... :)
 
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Waiting on him

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Because He is waiting for the fullness of time...and the marriage feast with His Bride....the time has not yet come . :)
I don’t know Helen, if Christ in you isn’t a consummation then what is?
All of creation marriage procreations etc... is a declaration of Christ and His Church in my opinion
 

Helen

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Both Jesus and Paul spoke to this issue very clearly. Anyone who foolishly ignores what they said and PRACTICES any form of unrighteousness will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I'm not condoning it be any means ...
Your quote above...then why is homosexuality now deemed by some to be "the worst"? hmm[1].gif

Gal 5:19-21 " Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
"

Now let look around amongst ourselves.....
"Let him who is without sin throw the first stone. "
 

JohnPaul

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The commandments stipulate "servile work", i.e. working to sustain oneself. Christ himself points out that it is perfectly acceptable to help someone get their ox out of a ditch on the Sabbath. The Sabbath doesn't preclude us from helping others in need. Christianity has taken the exception to the rule and made it the rule thus annulling God's commandments. Again, this is the fallacy of the Non Sequitur.

They have done the same thing with marriage by looking at the exception to the rule, and making it the rule. It was a law to deal with the exception for those who shouldn't be married to begin with, and used to annul God's commandment altogether. For Christians, what Christ calls adultery is now legitimate marriage.

Notice that this is how the secular world operates. Whenever the abortion topic is brought up, it is always the exceptions to the rule, that are used to make it the rule. If there is an exception to the rule, then it legitimates abortion for any reason.
The jews accused the Lord of working in the Sabbath day, you can set aside any day to rest, the Lird liberated us of that and dietary laws.
 

Helen

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To understand why Jesus never married and had children you have to know what He said about how He lived.

Hi there...
He lived as a man...but He never took His eye off of the spiritual realm of who He was.
He looked down the corridors of time ( as a man) and knew His marriage was the final victory and Plan that God had from the beginning of 'time'.

Why on earth would the Son of Man marry, when He knew His Father was calling and preparing The Bride for the Son Of God!!
 
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Prayer Warrior

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I'm not condoning it be any means ...
Your quote above...then why is homosexuality now deemed by some to be "the worst"? View attachment 8102

Gal 5:19-21 " Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
"

Now let look around amongst ourselves.....
"Let him who is without sin throw the first stone. "
I don’t think it is the worst sin a person can commit. I can’t speak for others.
 

JohnPaul

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The problem with this idea is that we do all sorts of things with our bodies that they were never meant to do. Our mouths are purposed with eating, talking, vomiting, etc., but we use them for all sorts of things that they simply shouldn't do. We should eat and drink nutritious foods, but how many of us drink diet sodas? There is no nutritional value whatsoever in a diet Coke, and yet no one ever condemns anyone for drinking them. We lick stamps, but the tongue was not created to lick stamps either. The list could go on indefinitely.

Everyone skirts around the real reason why sodomy is wrong because we're just as guilty. The ultimate reason is because God promised Abraham that he would have descendants as numerous as the stars, and anything that was an affront to that promise was sin. The list doesn't start with sodomy. It starts with sexual relations with your wife when she isn't ovulating, and extends to masturbation, oral sex, any form of birth control, artificial contraception, etc.

If we look at the fact that this was a promise to Israel alone, then we are off the hook for ALL deviant sexual behavior if we profess to not be joined to Israel as joint heirs. This is the profession of most Christians today.

Moreover, Paul points out that we are spiritual heirs, and not by physical descent at all. Therefore, we are better off never marrying at all which is exactly what Paul suggested, and that is not a problem for those who are in Christ. Being conformed to Christ necessarily means that we are able to handle whatever temptation we are faced with. Those who aren't will necessarily succumb to lust and must marry to deal with that problem.

Most people don't know that marriage was originally a means of learning how to be chaste. Most discover this the hard way.
You just like to keep making excuses, perhaps you like sodomy and oral sex and other deviant acts.
 

JohnPaul

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That's right, it's speaking in an idealistic manner. Meaning, because the marriage bed is sacred, therefore do not defile it with disgusting, childish and perverted acts, as in ; sodomy, pornography, role playing, toys, kamasutra nonsense, etc.. That is, treat each other with respect and dignity, and don't be selfish. Thus, because it's sacred, as all should be aware, the consequences will be severe when it's regarded with lascivious contempt.
Amen, DNB you know the way.
 

Helen

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Hardcore to the bone on homosexuality, will never accept it.

Hi there bro.
Hope you feel the same way about anger, lies , self-righteousness and all the rest of the gang that goes along with it. :)
 

VictoryinJesus

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I don’t know Helen, if Christ in you isn’t a consummation then what is?
All of creation marriage procreations etc... is a declaration of Christ and His Church in my opinion

God has entered in, if be His seed remains in you, and an incorruptible birth from above has taken place as New Life is formed in you ...and is brought forth the Sons of God. Don’t know how His seed remains in you without a consummation?
 

Helen

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The contrast to the legalists just standing there watching is disturbing. Jesus points out that not only do they not enter themselves, but they do their level best to prevent others from entering as well. None of us are good enough, nor do any of us deserve to be allowed entrance into the kingdom which makes it all the more amazing that we are invited despite the fact that we're all born sinners.
It spotlights the Pharisee in us all.

AMEN!! Well said...and needs saying...

thumbup1[1].gif
 
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JohnPaul

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Hi there bro.
Hope you feel the same way about anger, lies , self-righteousness and all the rest of the gang that goes along with it. :)
What do you mean Helen, I don’t quite get your post?
 

Helen

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I think that homosexuality has reached a higher level of acceptance than other sins.

What!!
So, why are Adultery , Abortion, Drunkenness , wife beating , child beating, incensed , white slavery etc etc ant BETTER sins !!!!!:eek:o_O:confused:

LOL , maybe you should rethink that one...
 
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Helen

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I don’t know Helen, if Christ in you isn’t a consummation then what is?
All of creation marriage procreations etc... is a declaration of Christ and His Church in my opinion
@VictoryinJesus

Well if you are satisfied , go with it then!!

For myself I have read that the bride is not yet ready , I have -
" A better Hope" "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen......
having seen the promise afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country
."

Rev 19 tells me :-
6 "And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready
."


We have seen nothing yet!! :)
 
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Giuliano

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He did. Ephesians 5:29-31 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: [30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. [31] For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

1 Corinthians 6:15-17 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. [16] What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. [17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Do a husband and wife become one flesh? So it is .... “he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.”
I was hoping for an answer like this from Prayer Warrior. Jesus did obey the commandment to be fruitful and multiply. In one way, some become his bride too. In another way, we are born in his image and likeness, conformed to his image. Thus we learn that the commandment given to Adam and Eve was not a carnal one. Two sinners having sex and making a baby is not keeping that commandment.

you said: “First he says there is neither male nor female”...then hear what the Spirit says where there is neither male nor female. . “he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.” One spirit: Neither male nor female but a body tempered together in submission to the Head. Christ. Then “IF” they continue in Faith and Charity and Holiness being sober minded are ALL fruit of the Spirit. the child bearing is children born unto God...the promise children given of God that are brought forth unto the kingdom of God, increasing, multiplying and are fruitful joined unto one Spirit.
Agreed again. I believe a married couple faithful to God can be blessed with special children. Ishmael could not be the child of promise although he was Abraham's child after the flesh. God thus referred to Isaac as "your only son" when talking to Abraham about him.

I believe that after the fall and prior to Jesus, spiritual reproduction and physical reproduction were tied together. The only way to pass on the "image and likeness" was when a man and woman were having physical sex. That changed when the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary. A new way of transmitting the proper image and likeness was established. And Jesus can also overshadow any of us to correct us, to give us the correct image and likeness -- spiritually of course. It doesn't matter if we are physically male or female. Such things are irrelevant.

Thus what we perceive as a man physically can play the part of the "Bride of Christ." If that sounds gay to some people, they should stop thinking in carnal terms. I also believe if what we perceive as a woman physically becomes spiritually correct, "she" can be called a "son of God." I understand people's concerns; but I also believe it's possible to put too much emphasis on the physical sex of people.

I note that Isaac was not conceived until after Abram picked up the feminine "h" to become Abraham; and although we are not told explicitly Sarah also perfected herself, we see her name changed too. They were perfected people sexually, neither male nor female spiritually. How Sarah became perfected this way is also shown by how she manipulated Abraham before by giving him bad advice -- the "fallen woman" controlling the "fallen man." After both were perfected, God told Abraham to obey whatever she said to do. That tells me she stopped being a "woman" spiritually but was both.

If you ask me, the value of a heterosexual marriage is that the "man" can pick up something of the feminine from his wife, and the "wife" can pick up something of the masculine from him. This can be done during sex if the two do indeed become one spiritually, "knowing" one another. If it's sex without the proper spiritual goal of the two becoming one spiritually, then it's just sex of the sort Abraham had with Hagar.

If a man treats his wife like a sex object to be used solely to gratify his lust, that is as much of a sin in my book as having sex with another man. Indeed he may be damaging his wife. It might be better for him to have sex with other men motivated solely by lust. That way their lust would damage only each other -- or as Paul put it, "receiving in themselves that recompence of their error."

Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.