Homosexual Church Dream

[Truth OT]

Paul's use of the term "liberty" has nothing to do with freedom of choice. Even among pagan populations, it is well known that the ability to choose to sin.....

Sin is "missing the mark" set by God. So again, stop cherry-picking and be consistent church members. Either expect the church you are affiliated with to adhere to the full council of God from scripture or back up.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Paul's use of the term "liberty" has nothing to do with freedom of choice. Even among pagan populations, it is well known that the ability to choose to sin is the basest, grossest form of liberty there is. Paul speaks of the liberty we have in Christ as liberty from sin.

always understood it as the freedom from vanity (futility) ...the bondage of corruption. Romans 15:3
[3] For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

The commandments stipulate "servile work", i.e. working to sustain oneself. Christ himself points out that it is perfectly acceptable to help someone get their ox out of a ditch on the Sabbath.

You said something above that has stuck with me since you post it. “The commandments stipulate “servile work”, I.e. working to sustain oneself.”
working to sustain oneself ...isn’t that what is prohibited when entering the Sabbath Rest of Christ?

 

[lforrest]

Let's not act like we expect strict biblical adherence in all aspects by our respective churches. Churches continuously exhibit "liberty" in all forms of doctrine and practices. The more conservative hard lined Bible-based congregations have a leg to stand on by rejecting the "alternate lifestyle" in question. But you liberal, health and wealth, faith alone, just believe congregations; stop cherry picking what you choose to enforce. Be consistent or be quiet.

What the liberal churches do is their business. But it is a sad fact that on the surface you can't distinguish the difference between some of these churches and the Lucifarians.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This isn't to say that they shouldn't keep God's commandments because all of God's commandments are created for the benefit of all humanity, regardless of whether one is saved or not. They are not meant to save anyone. They are what the saved believer does.

what do you mean they are not meant to save anyone? Then how are they the very thing which keeps others from entering in? As in this cannot enter in?

God’s commandments are(not) meant to save anyone? Do you mean the mosaic law, Ten Commandments?

 

[shnarkle]

Sin is "missing the mark" set by God. So again, stop cherry-picking and be consistent. Either expect the church to adhere to the full council of God from scripture or back up.

I most certainly do expect the church (as described in the bible) to adhere to the full council of God from scripture. Hence, my point stands firmly on that fact.

I wasn't cherry picking anything.

 

[shnarkle]

what do you mean they are not meant to save anyone?

The commandments are not intended to save anyone, or redeem anyone from their fallen sinful state. They are explicitly for our benefit as fallen human beings. They are also kept by the newborn believer because that's what a holy, sanctified people do.

Then how are they the very thing which keeps others from entering in? As in this cannot enter in?

Other than the Pharisees who are pretending that no one is good enough to enter into the kingdom, I don't know what you're referring to here.

God’s commandments are meant to save anyone?

Nope.

Do you mean the mosaic law, Ten Commandments?

None of the above. It is "grace through faith, and that not of yourselves....etc."

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The commandments are not intended to save anyone, or redeem anyone from their fallen sinful state. They are explicitly for our benefit as fallen human beings. They are also kept by the newborn believer because that's what a holy, sanctified people do.



Other than the Pharisees who are pretending that no one is good enough to enter into the kingdom, I don't know what you're referring to here.


Nope.



None of the above. It is "grace through faith, and that not of yourselves....etc."

does this circumcision save anyone Colossians 2:11
[11] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

 

[shnarkle]

always understood it as the freedom from vanity (futility) ...the bondage of corruption. Romans 15:3
[3] For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

The root cause of corruption is sin.

You said something above that has stuck with me since you post it. “The commandments stipulate “servile work”, I.e. working to sustain oneself.”
working to sustain oneself ...isn’t that what is prohibited when entering the Sabbath Rest of Christ?

Sounds about right. "No servile work" means we place our providence in God alone rather than in Mammon to provide our every need. Jesus comes along and takes it to the next level, by pointing out that you can't serve God and Mammon. You can't even work for Mammon (the personification of money itself) during the week anymore. When the kingdom arrives, there's no need to perform servile work at all. One rests completely in Christ.

 

[shnarkle]

does this circumcision save anyone Colossians 2:11
[11] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Of course, but it doesn't then follow that the former is done away. Is the church marrried to Christ? Sure, so do we then divorce our spouse, or cease from entering into the institution of marriage now? Paul says we should, but that doesn't stop Christians from getting married.

Christ is the lamb, right? So we can stop eating lamb now. it's such a burden, right?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Okay, there is one command
Deuteronomy 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Which does save. So can we say His commands are not meant to save anyone?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

One rests completely in Christ.

Hebrews 4:3-5
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. [4] For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. [5] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

If they shall enter into His rest and keep the sabbath Day Rest of Christ Holy. Does this save anyone?

 

[shnarkle]

Hebrews 4:3-5
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. [4] For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. [5] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

If they shall enter into His rest and keep the sabbath Day Rest of Christ Holy. Does this save anyone?

Entering into his rest doesn't save them. They are saved, and subsequently enter into his rest. Entering into his rest is a consequence of salvation. If it were the other way around, it would be a works based salvation. There is nothing one can do to save oneself.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Entering into his rest doesn't save them. They are saved, and subsequently enter into his rest. Entering into his rest is a consequence of salvation. If it were the other way around, it would be a works based salvation. There is nothing one can do to save oneself.

entering into Christ which is the Rest prepared doesn’t save anyone?

 

[shnarkle]

entering into Christ which is the Rest prepared doesn’t save anyone?

Why are you repeatedly asking the same question over and over? Why do you think there is anything you can do to save yourself? Perhaps you would prefer I articulate it so it makes more sense to you? How about this: Christ's rest enters into those God has predestined to salvation. Better?

 

[Truth OT]

I wasn't cherry picking anything.

My apologies. There was no personal intent in my message. I was attempting to speak generally as it relates to how church members often are loud about an issue they take umbrage with while ignoring other issues that are addressed in scripture. Shnarkle specifically was not my focus because I cannot say that shnarkle falls into this category.

 

[shnarkle]

My apologies. There was no personal intent in my message. I was attempting to speak generally.

It was so general, that I really don't even know what you're referring to. Did you have a point? What were you referring to? I don't take anything personally. I only get frustrated when people post things that are so vague as to be pointless. I have no problem addressing what you think I was cherry picking. The problem is that I can't address it if you don't point out what you think I'm cherry picking. There's nothing to address if you don't present the evidence.

 

[Truth OT]

It was so general,..

Tell me if I cleaned it up with better specifics to communicate better. (I know that at times my communication can use improvement)

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Fasting is not a good idea if you're not eating right. It's a really, really bad idea. It isn't healthy at all. It's not going to draw you closer to God. Remember that Christ says "when you fast, don't go around making a big deal about it" No one knows when I'm fasting. No one can tell the difference except that maybe they're in a better mood, and they will have no clue why.

I never made much of any commitment because I had a bottle of saccharine to help me get over the worst of it, and when your belly is full of healthy nutritious food, you just feel better. Fat stores around your body are a sign that you are overwhelming your liver. It is abusing the liver. This may sound harsh, but it's the truth. Your liver can only process so much sugar before it just automatically converts it into fat.

When you stop eating sugar, after a few days, your body has to start drawing from what is stored as fat. It's just like a hybrid car, and it will burn down the stored fat until it is literally all gone. There are no exceptions. If this isn't happening really fast it is because you're still putting something on your food that has sugar in it. Cut out the oils and toppings as well, and substitute with the good stuff.

Fifty years ago, the average intake of sugar for Americans was right around two and a half pounds. Today it's around one hundred and twenty five pounds. Sugar is recognized as a toxin by the body. It literally shuts down processing what it needs in order to get rid of sugar. Anything over 2 grams per day is excessive, and two grams is nothing for most people.

Sugar is corrosive to the arteries. it causes perforations in the arteries which then causes the body to use cholesterol to repair those perforations. People think that cholesterol is the problem, but it isn't; it's the sugar that is the problem. When the sugar is removed from the diet, the body heals itself. You can eat all the animal fat you please, and it will go right through you because there are no perforations in your arteries.

My cardiologist was dumbfounded that my cholesterol was normal after I stopped eating sugar. I eat at least half a dozen eggs every day. I eat all the beef, and poultry I please, and there's nothing better for you than fat from fish. He wanted to put me on statins and a few other cholesterol medications, but I told him to give me till my next checkup to see if I could get it down on my own. He didn't think it was possible.
I haven't seen any doctors in over four years now. That was after years of getting blood tests that showed everything was normal.

Years ago, I started going to a lot of different churches. One was the 7th Day Adventists. They always have lunch after their services, and while they eat some stuff that I don't eat anymore, when I first started going to their lunches, everything they were serving was way better than what I was eating at the time. They are some of the oldest living people on the planet, but that's not what's as important as the fact that they're some of the healthiest people on the planet as well. It doesn't matter where I go, there are always a big group of them who are very healthy and very sharp regardless of how old they are. I highly recommend going to their services just for the food and wealth of information they can provide,( not to mention moral support). They have great recipes that can help you to transition into a better diet. I shouldn't really call it a diet because it's a better diet. You can eat lots of food, and never feel like you're on a diet ever again.

There's a book out that I would highly recommend you check out. You can probably get a copy at the library. If not, most libraries have a lending program with other libraries so you should be able to get it eventually. It's not a big book. You could probably read it in just an afternoon, but it's got a lot of valuable information that wakes people up to what's really going on. The book is by a doctor named Kay Shepherd. It's called "From the First Bite" You can look her up online, and check out some of her other books as well. Her food plan is what really supercharged my ability to get a long lasting handle on weight control. The weight came off so fast it made my head spin, but the clarity of mind is really amazing. The fog lifted within the first couple of weeks.

I was lucky because there was a Recovery From Food Addiction (RFA) group nearby so I was able to copy recipes from them. Having support from a group of people makes a big difference. That group has since disbanded, but it was there when I needed it. If you're living with other people, it can be difficult to have different menus for everyone. Some of the people in the group I joined told me that when they are invited out to dinner at a restaurant, they will take their own food, and hand it to the wait staff to have them just reheat it for them. She tells them she will pay them to simply heat it up and serve it to her. She's never had a problem from any restaurant she goes to. Her friends and family think it's weird, but then she used to be morbidly obese too so they see how it makes sense. I don't eat in restaurants anymore so it tends to affect my social life. I don't care. My social life was drastically changed when I stopped drinking and doing drugs as well.

I have a few good friends who are in their 70's, but you would never think they were a day over 40. People are starting to say the same thing about me now as well.

I remember as a child my mum being Danish sugar was king, boy we had sugar in everything cakes with sugar like you would never believe and non of us were fat at all, Dad was into salt to the point of insanity just pored into everything. no one could be so stupid with salt or sugar that it tasted shocking.
I went to my mums some years ago and have a cup of tea and said a 1/4 of a teaspoon of sugar will do just fine or nothing and she argued with me no ! you must have at least 1 full teaspoon full .
Us children would make up egg yoke and sugar in a cup and mix that up and liked that but that was like 50 years ago now, I don't think I would like it now.
My Mum has eaten such junk always, all the fat and Lard over bread you name it and her cholesterol is great and never been fat.
My Dad would say that you can not fatten a thorough breed.

I broke my Arm and as it was mending I could drink milk straight it tasted really great then, but I would never drink milk like that before or after. the body must of craved for that at the time. I tried drinking just one beer during that time and that was a no no my body was telling me, it was like poison.
Like a woman pregnant will eat craving things that they would never eat, but would love it while with child.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Why are you repeatedly asking the same question over and over? Why do you think there is anything you can do to save yourself? Perhaps you would prefer I articulate it so it makes more sense to you? How about this: Christ's rest enters into those God has predestined to salvation. Better?

I don’t think there is anything I can do to save myself. Point was you said the commandments can not save. It is important(imo). Can His commandments give Life? God commands to keep His commandments and live. Others will mock grace and say to live or be saved is not superficial Grace or Faith but you have to keep His saying and do them. You’ve pointed that out yourself, but now you say God’s commandments do not save. I asked which can save and you said none. So, I asked you if the circumcision of Christ where God’s commandment is to be circumcised in the foreskin of the heart, can save...you said of course. is it fair then to say (none) of God’s commandments can save?

Deuteronomy 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

The Law Is Spiritual. (Romans 7:14) since the Law of God is Spiritual how then does the Spirit (a life-quickening Spirit)enter in and not save?

 

[Truth OT]

Christ's rest enters into those God has predestined to salvation. Better?

TULIP? Do we need a Calvinism thread? Baptism thread? Faith and works thread? How about a preterism thread?