Homosexuality

[FHII]

Marksman brought up some very ing points. Good show! However fire. 7... if what he is even partly correct (and I think he is correct ) I have some questions for you.

1. Have I ever condemned you?
2. Have I given you some advise?
3. Have you ever responded to anything I've said?
4. Why haven't you?

You mentioned somewhere that your goal was to show that homophobia still exists. Well, duh. You're cause is like a man on a raft in the middle of the Pacific ocean trying to prove water exists.
Thus, thus I think you only want approval for your sin.

You ain't going to get it it from me or the lord! But you can get an overlooking from me and more importantly God.

I don't want to talk with you about your homosexuality. I want to talk to about Jesus.


So why don't you want to talk to me?

 

[Fire-7]

Marksman brought up some very ing points. Good show! However fire. 7... if what he is even partly correct (and I think he is correct ) I have some questions for you.

1. Have I ever condemned you?
2. Have I given you some advise?
3. Have you ever responded to anything I've said?
4. Why haven't you?

You mentioned somewhere that your goal was to show that homophobia still exists. Well, duh. You're cause is like a man on a raft in the middle of the Pacific ocean trying to prove water exists.
Thus, thus I think you only want approval for your sin.

You ain't going to get it it from me or the lord! But you can get an overlooking from me and more importantly God.

I don't want to talk with you about your homosexuality. I want to talk to about Jesus.


So why don't you want to talk to me?

Where have you responded to me and I have not replied? I don't get on here everyday, so if I don't respond right away, it wasn't because I just wrote you off or didn't take what you said into account.

And I would not have a problem with what the bible says if it wasn't riddled with blatant contradictions. I am not sure that the bible is "the word of God." So, I can't base my entire life on a book that I am not even certain is true. What I can base it on is what I already know to be true for myself. The reason I make homosexuality a big deal is because christians make it a big deal. Instead of focusing on what is behind a "sin," they get caught up in the symptoms. If heterosexuality is not in my nature, you can't force me to be heterosexual. If my sexuality is a problem, that's no way to get to the root of the problem anyway. from the priciples of your bible, that would be legalism and ultimately death. The law of the letter kills. and that's all I hear for the most part (I don't mean from everyone who has responded... because some had responsible responses)... telling me that "God said it, that settles it"...not even remotely interested in what I have to say or how I feel about the matter... no compassion. I'm not talking about you, just in general.

My sexuality is an intricate part of my identity, so although I don;t have to talk about it all the time (which I don't), I can't completely separate it from everything else.

As I said, I have trouble believing that the bible is really what it's proclaimed to be. There is much more to this than my sexuality...and I feel rather belittled when people diminish me to just my sexuality, telling me that until I repent of my homosexuality that I have nothing to say to them. I'm still a human being; one with a heart after pure, unadulterated truth, but with doubts about many the things that are portrayed as truth.

But we can talk about anything

 

[Comm.Arnold]

How'd I know that would be your answer...

The aged old, selfish "every man for himself" philosophy

He has a point no one can babysit your spirit for you and you should look for refuge in nothing or no one but God and Jesus.

 

[veteran]

Fire 7 has raised the issue of acceptance and rejection that is commonly raised by homosexuals. Which is not unsurprising as homosexuality is a product of rejection so they spend all their time consciously or unconsciously trying to find acceptance.

When they are having sex with another man they are trying to find acceptance and due to the distorted image of themselves, sex equals acceptance. The problem is that two men who are dominated by rejection cannot provide acceptance to another so it is a self defeating exercise.

Constant rejection is one of the main reasons for homosexual suicide, not as some try to insist, the way they are treated by society. When you have experienced rejection, and I know what I am talking about here, you always blame everyone else for everything.

Acceptance is not based on "things" that is why same sex marriage is going to be a failure. They will get married and find out things are no different because the cause has not been addressed, the rejection inside. That is why on average homosexual partnerships last no longer than 18 months.

Until Fire 7 and any homosexual finds deliverance from rejection, they will be tormented by their emotions and feel that the world is against them. When you are free of rejection, it doesn't matter what other people think. I have been free of it for 35 years now and there are times that it raises its ugly head but by the grace of God, it doesn't last long as I know I am free in Christ so I don't have to listen to the lies of the devil, who after all is the father of lies.

Only God can give you that sort of deliverance, not man. Everyone needs a work of grace to root out the rejection and what it produces, a root of bitterness which leads to anger. When one is accepted by God, you see the world in a different light. Gone is the "poor me" syndrome which has dominated. It is replaced by I love everyone and everyone loves me. In other words you turn from seeing everything in a negative light and what can go wrong will go wrong into seeing everything in a positive light and what can go right will go right.

Here endeth the lesson. Stop that you naughty boy!!!! You are not in church now.

Excellent witness marksman.

 

[Fire-7]

He has a point no one can babysit your spirit for you and you should look for refuge in nothing or no one but God and Jesus.

What are churches and pastors and "ministries" even for then, if this is "every man for himself"? This is another contradiction in the bible. It states that we need no man to teach us--only the Holy Spirit, then it turns around and says "obey those that have rule over you, and brings up the idea of "spiritual fathers." so why even address it if it's not significant? The idea of fathership, sonship, and discipleship are all through the bible--old and new testament.

 

[Duckybill]

What are churches and pastors and "ministries" even for then, if this is "every man for himself"? This is another contradiction in the bible. It states that we need no man to teach us--only the Holy Spirit, then it turns around and says "obey those that have rule over you, and brings up the idea of "spiritual fathers." so why even address it if it's not significant? The idea of fathership, sonship, and discipleship are all through the bible--old and new testament.

No contradiction. Each of us is responsible for our own lives we live. No one can repent for us.

 

[Fire-7]

No contradiction. Each of us is responsible for our own lives we live. No one can repent for us.

I know that no one can repent for me--that's a given.

I'm talking about discipleship. And don't tell me it's not biblical, or you are denying the very bible you preach out of. Fathership, mentorship, discipleship. It's all biblical

 

[Duckybill]

I'm talking about discipleship. And don't tell me it's not biblical, or you are denying the very bible you preach out of. Fathership, mentorship, discipleship. It's all biblical

Ok, I won't.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

What are churches and pastors and "ministries" even for then, if this is "every man for himself"? This is another contradiction in the bible. It states that we need no man to teach us--only the Holy Spirit, then it turns around and says "obey those that have rule over you, and brings up the idea of "spiritual fathers." so why even address it if it's not significant? The idea of fathership, sonship, and discipleship are all through the bible--old and new testament.

Pastors and churches are there to learn from, they can provide refuge but they are the house of the Lord. Now what it means by obey those who have rule he means obey those in power for example Emperor Constantine, Barrack Obama, or even Adolf Hitler. I guess the point is to avoid trouble for yourself even if they are seemingly incompetent rulers.

Ill admit I learned this the hard way I like to drink and I like to drive. Combine the two and .... well a few court dates and a few instances of police brutality later the message finally got through. Just because I can handle my liquor well and I drive like a champion F1 racer doesn't give me the right to.

 

[aspen]

Fire.... I am glad that you are sticking around ........ I hope that you are able to see the love of Christ through the rejection. If you ever want to talk to someone who loves Christ and his [email protected]

 

[7angels]

fire 7 says
What are churches and pastors and "ministries" even for then, if this is "every man for himself"? This is another contradiction in the bible. It states that we need no man to teach us--only the Holy Spirit, then it turns around and says "obey those that have rule over you, and brings up the idea of "spiritual fathers." so why even address it if it's not significant? The idea of fathership, sonship, and discipleship are all through the bible--old and new testament.

i don't claim to know everything and from what i understand of the word of God is this. the Holy Spirit teaches us in many ways. sometimes he uses strangers, pastors, a friend, and ect to get his point across. you say you don't know whether the word is real because it is full of contradictions. i do not see the contradictions but what i do see is like what you said that the idea of fathership, sonship, and discipleship are through the bible and christians are ignoring what it is the Word tells us too. this does not mean that the bible is wrong but that christians are being disobedient in their duties to the Lord. christians are to be loving but that trait is hard to find in today's society because loving people can be taken wrong and you can be named a homo or some other name that cause christians to be afraid of stepping out and being different and not caring what anyone thinks but God. the same goes with telling the truth, people don't want to be yelled at because they did something wrong or are afraid of taking the consequences of their actions. then it is in our flesh nature to want to make excuses for anything that happens. how often do you hear or laugh at obsene things or always clowning around and have a quick response to things said or say things to get back at others who hurt you? is this christian behavior? no but it happens all the time here in these forums where we are supposed to be using good communication and be in unity with each other but instead we are bickering with each other. if this is how we act among ourselves then i can understand why people do not want to saved. we are more vicious among our own kind when we should be in unity. people are too busy seeing the faults in others and don't see it in themselves. this has got to change people. yes there are people here who respect others but they are few and in between.

fire 7 this is why you get nailed so hard all the time. christians should be a family but it is being turned into a religion. we have lost the reason God put us here on the earth. i would love to see more good communication being used in here and everywhere else but it will not happen without a repentant heart. sorry for being so blunt that that is me. i say things as i see them. i am working at it myself but in time in time i will get there. God bless you all

 

[lawrance]

When it comes to poofters etc i think their is different types, some are ok to put up with the rubbish they speak for a short time but i get tired of putting up with them as it drives me up the wall.
Others just make me feel totally sick and i can't stand them.
Others make me so pissed off.
What types are there ? and what are we really talking about.

I am not bothered by to people who love each other, so much and they don't play around being idiots.
But from what i have seen is they can be and what i have seen manly is just a bunch of filthy disgusting sick low life that hit on you and say so many sick things and it's like as if a normal person said rubbish like that i would be disgusted an have noting to do with them.
Some are very effeminate from a young age and are good people who would do nothing sicking or stupid around others.
It gets on my goat when idiots support poofterism regardless.
A mate of mine brother was bi he is dead now from aids, he was a frut loop. one day he was ok to talk to and the next he was a nut you could not take him anywhere or he would embarrass you no end his brother would have to rouse on him all the time to shut up.

 

[Robbie]

I'd rather be at a rave with a bunch of dancing homosexuals than sitting in a church with a bunch of bitter judgmental religious hypocrites any day... it's like I see the stuff people like duckybill write and I don't blame people for hating christianity... when you see it baring that kind of fruit in people you can't help but feel like the tree is bad... thank God my relationship with Jesus is through Him and not through christianity or I would have kicked it to the curb long ago.

Don't trip fire7... the people that are condemning you for your sins have nothing to do with Jesus... Jesus is the polar opposite of that to humanity... He died for our sins so we wouldn't be condemned... and He is perfect... but a bunch of imperfect hypocrites are so quick to cast the first stone... what a joke...

 

[Duckybill]

I'd rather be at a rave with a bunch of dancing homosexuals than sitting in a church with a bunch of bitter judgmental religious hypocrites any day...

They'll be dancing in the fire for eternity. You'd rather be with them then?

it's like I see the stuff people like duckybill write and I don't blame people for hating christianity... when you see it baring that kind of fruit in people you can't help but feel like the tree is bad... thank God my relationship with Jesus is through Him and not through christianity or I would have kicked it to the curb long ago.

What you really mean is 'the stuff' like is written in the Bible.

Don't trip fire7... the people that are condemning you for your sins have nothing to do with Jesus... Jesus is the polar opposite of that to humanity... He died for our sins so we wouldn't be condemned... and He is perfect... but a bunch of imperfect hypocrites are so quick to cast the first stone... what a joke...

How judgmental of you Robbie.

 

[Foreigner]

I'd rather be at a rave with a bunch of dancing homosexuals than sitting in a church with a bunch of bitter judgmental religious hypocrites any day...

-- I have no doubt you would rather be at a rave. But unless you are there to witness (and just hanging out and 'not judging' is not the Gospel's definition of 'witnessing') you are actually chosing to hang out in a sinful environment. Something the Bible warns against.

The Bible says to come out and 'be ye seperate.' By hanging out at a rave you are actually giving your seal of approval as to what goes on there.
And if you are giving them the impression you are a Christian, those there will assume that it is condoned by Christians and God will wonder what the heck you are thinking.

As far as "sitting in a church with a bunch of hypocrites," the very fact that you yourself are judging them shows the hypocrisy which makes you one of them.

That is of course setting aside the false implication that a choice between a rave and a hypocritical church are your only two options.

That false dichotomy grows tiresome.

it's like I see the stuff people like duckybill write and I don't blame people for hating christianity... when you see it baring that kind of fruit in people you can't help but feel like the tree is bad...

-- The Bible promises that people will hate you because of your faith.
Letting someone know that Jesus loves them (as much as He loves you) but that he expects you to turn away from the sin in your life (as you yourself had to do) in order to be saved is NOT "judging" or "hating" the person you are witnessing to.
It is literally saving their eternal soul.

But giving them the impression that there will be no negative repercussion for their lifestyle is literally condemning them to death.

thank God my relationship with Jesus is through Him and not through christianity or I would have kicked it to the curb long ago.

-- Like you seem willing to do with other Christians here who love Jesus just as much as you do.

Don't trip fire7... the people that are condemning you for your sins have nothing to do with Jesus... Jesus is the polar opposite of that to humanity... He died for our sins so we wouldn't be condemned... and He is perfect... but a bunch of imperfect hypocrites are so quick to cast the first stone... what a joke...

- Fire7, you are loved by Jesus more than you are loved by your parents, your biological brothers and sisters, your Christian brothers and sisters or any 'signifigant other' in your life.

That is, first and foremost, the most important point.
Just as he would have died on the cross for you if you were the only person on earth, He would not have if told that all could be saved by his actions except you. His love for you runs that deep.

But, just like every single other person who follows Christ (myself included), you must address sin in your life.
It doesn't matter if you feel those pointing out your sin are being hypocritical or judgemental. You don't answer to them.
You DO answer to God, though.

Just as I and every other person had to make a conscious decision to fight against our sin to overcome it in Christ, you must do the same.

People letting you think it isn't important to do so or that those who encourage you to address it are haters, etc, are not doing you any favors.

One day we all will stand before God.
Those that do not adress the sin in their lives will be put with the goats....
Along with those who scold not out of love but out of judgement
AND those who choose to stand in judgement over them and their methods, not knowing what was in their hearts.
AND those who have told people with sin in their lives not to worry about it

There is a saying (though I do not find a scripture to support it) that judging someone for the sin they commit is often more of a sin than the sin they are judging that person for.

But the same would go for those who judge those who are trying to fulfill what they feel the Gospel is telling them to do to the best of their ability.

The sin of homosexuality is no worse in God's eyes than adultery, murder, assault, rape, theft, cheating on your taxes, looking at people lustfully in your mind, loving money more than loving Him, refusing to help those in need, etc. etc. etc.

ALL PEOPLE are guilty of at least some of these sins. ALL PEOPLE are going to go to hell if they do not accept Jesus and turn away from these sins.

Being ignorant (willfully or otherwise) as to what God requires isn't going to help anyone.

When I got saved the person who witnessed to me told me that Jesus loves me but expects me to address the sin in my life.
No problem. I knew many things that I was doing were wrong so I turned my back on them and chose to serve Christ.

But later on, when that Christian told me that living with my girlfriend was a sin in God's eyes, I balked.
How could God judge that as bad? I love her. I eventually plan to marry her. Finances prevented us doing what we eventually plan to do.
How could God possibly have an issue with this?
I told the person who was sharing with me that it was between me and God and he should keep his nose out of it.

I struggled long and hard to even understand the concept of it being wrong. The World was such a part of me and my thinking that it couldn't even register as a sin to me.

But eventually I came to accept it and ended that arrangement. That caused her to leave and accuse me of being judgemental to her.
(Sound familiar?) But it was the right thing to do.
If I had died truly believing that I was serving God but continued to live with her out of wedlock, I would have gone to hell.

 

[Shirley]

@ Mr Rosenberger's post. This is a prime example of the hatred towards people. Our battle is not supposed to be against flesh and blood, but against the forces of darkness. We are commanded, by our Lord Jesus to love even our enemies. To pray for others even if they spitefully use us. It is no surprise to me that homosexuals fight Christians, because they have not been shown the love of Christ because people are busy judging them and hating them. I'd like to hear a story from someone who has delivered someone or from someone who has been delivered. I feel we need to wake up to the love of Christ that surpasses all understanding!

 

[Foreigner]

It is no surprise to me that homosexuals fight Christians, because they have not been shown the love of Christ because people are busy judging them and hating them.

-- Yet another blanket condemnation. Apparently ANY Christian who has spoken to a homosexual has spoken from the position of judgement or hatred.

That is NOT the case in the MAJORITY of situations.

Our church loves and welcomes homosexuals. Some come and then leave. Some stay and attend regularly but do not join the church or make a commitment to Christ. Some give their lives to Christ and seek prayer and counseling. ALL are welcome.

The majority of conversations I have had with homosexuals were initiated by homosexuals.
Some just want to talk. Some are truly seeking.
Many approach me to shout at me for my beliefs.
Or they ask calmly what could possibly be wrong with homosexuality and after I share the scripture THEN start shouting.

I have never marched against gays. Held a sign up criticizing homosexuality (or any other thing for that matter).
I have never handed out tracts criticizing homosexuality. I certainly have never walked up to a gay person and demanded they repent or else they are going to hell.

PLEASE stop with the dishonest blanket criticisms.

 

[Duckybill]

I have found that those who preach the phoney gospel of love love to complain about being judged, and at the same time are more judgmental when cornered about their unBiblical gospel of love. The Bible is certainly judgmental and they don't like it. That's why they claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit rather than the Bible. Total contradiction.

 

[Duckybill]

The homosexual sympathizers are probably the worst at judging others, while charging others of being judgmental.

 

[Shirley]

I am not perfect in speech. I should have said some people judge and hate. I was referring to the attitude in one post. I have not read all 12 pages here. Foreigner I am glad to hear that your church loves people and desires to help them.

Duckybill- The phony gospel of love? Really? I say the words of our Lord Jesus and the apostle Paul and you infer phony religion and that I am judging? I asked for examples of people being delivered. Are you here on this topic because you have love for the lost? Am I judging because I said we need to show the love of Christ?