How do you view Jesus?

[Ferris Bueller]

I dont have a relationship with Jesus, but its because im not saved. When i pray at nite, i pray for others, not myself usually. I know im not saved, i know im wicked, and i know i deserve everything bad that happens to me plus some. I dont wanna goto hell, but i know i deserve it.

Have you ever stared right into the face of God's grace to be able to be set free from your sin and then just said 'no' to it?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Have you ever stared right into the face of God's grace to be able to be set free from your sin and then just said 'no' to it?

i think i have. This is a biggie for me, because the very first time i truly repented, or at least i think i repented, i thought God had set me free from my addiction. I began to think “oh man, did i get it right??” I went 5 weeks without wanting to give in to my addiction. Then, 2 days after that, i fell back into my addiction, hard. But, that first time back, for like half a second, i felt like an “EWWW” feeling as i sinned. It was the first and only time i felt like that for doing my addiction.
And that was when panic really set in. If i had really been delivered from my addiction, i would never have fallen back into it. My repentance must not have been genuine is all i could figure. And so, that is how i know im still not saved despite some repeated attempts at repentance.

 

[Lambano]

i was asked once, if everyone went to Heaven, and no one went to hell, would you still try to be a christian? My response was no. I’d be hell on wheels. If i could live as i wanted, i would just do whatever bad i could.

Okay, fair enough. Question: If you knew you were loved, really loved, and that your response mattered to the one who loved you, what would your response be?

(For the purpose of the above question, assume there will be accountability for the moral choices made in this life, but the final destination is non-existence. I postulate this with some biblical support, but specifically because love coerced under the threat of eternal torture cannot be considered “love”.)

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Okay, fair enough. Question: If you knew you were loved, really loved, and that your response mattered to the one who loved you, what would your response be?

(For the purpose of the above question, assume there will be accountability for the moral choices made in this life, but the final destination is non-existence. I postulate this with some biblical support, but specifically because love coerced under the threat of eternal torture cannot be considered “love”.)

i think my response would still be the same. Getting to Heaven is the ultimate goal. So long as that happens, nothing else matters. Keep in mind, i dont think i understand the concept of “love.”

 

[Lambano]

Keep in mind, i dont think i understand the concept of “love.”

My operative definition of “love” is that the happiness and well-being of the one beloved is integral to the happiness and well-being of the one one who loves.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

My operative definition of “love” is that the happiness and well-being of the one beloved is integral to the happiness and well-being of the one one who loves.

then yea, i have no love for anyone.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

i think i have. This is a biggie for me, because the very first time i truly repented, or at least i think i repented, i thought God had set me free from my addiction. I began to think “oh man, did i get it right??” I went 5 weeks without wanting to give in to my addiction. Then, 2 days after that, i fell back into my addiction, hard. But, that first time back, for like half a second, i felt like an “EWWW” feeling as i sinned. It was the first and only time i felt like that for doing my addiction.
And that was when panic really set in. If i had really been delivered from my addiction, i would never have fallen back into it. My repentance must not have been genuine is all i could figure. And so, that is how i know im still not saved despite some repeated attempts at repentance.

Only someone who has the 'been there, done that' T-shirt can help you with your situation. I'm not that person. I just don't have the insight into addictions that someone who has had substance addictions and beat them through Christ would have. I can help you with fits of rage. I have the T-shirt for that one. Maybe how Christ got me through that can be of help to you. Except that it was something I dealt with after I was already saved not before. I overcame it when I no longer wanted the consequences of my fits of rage. That set me up to want to use God's power to not indulge that sin anymore.

 

[Lambano]

Getting to Heaven is the ultimate goal.

Why do you want to go to Heaven? Seriously. That’s where God hangs out.

Or is everything cool as long as a) You’re not getting tortured; and b) as long as Jesus the Judge stays on his side of Heaven, you’ll stay on yours?

Points a) and b) are something I actually wrote nineteen years ago. I still have the journal.

 

[Lambano]

then yea, i have no love for anyone.

Okay. Did you ever have someone to whom your well-being mattered? A parent, a teacher, a coach, a friend?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Why do you want to go to Heaven? Seriously. That’s where God hangs out.

Or is everything cool as long as a) You’re not getting tortured; and b) as long as Jesus the Judge stays on his side of Heaven, you’ll stay on yours?

Points a) and b) are something I actually wrote nineteen years ago. I still have the journal.

why do i want to goto Heaven?? When the only 2 choices i have are Heaven or hell, i’m gonna pick Heaven everytime.

as far as hanging out with Jesus in Heaven, i cant see Him wanting to hang out with me. Trust me when i say, Jesus is quite the scary guy to me. My mother used to have this small statue of Jesus on a table when you came in thru the front door. I could never look at it, it was scary. If a statue is scary, imagine the fear of standing in front of Him in person.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Okay. Did you ever have someone to whom your well-being mattered? A parent, a teacher, a coach, a friend?

i wanna say my ex…. But she was a bit crazy. But yea, lets go with my ex.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

why do i want to goto Heaven?? When the only 2 choices i have are Heaven or hell, i’m gonna pick Heaven everytime.

It sounds like you don't not know for sure yet if you're someone God has decided will be a believer, or someone God has decided will not be a believer. Does God need your input for you to be the believer or unbeliever he has decided ahead of time you are going to be?

I think if I had your Calvinist views I would just go on my merry way and just accept whatever God has determined will automatically happen. You believe you can't change anything anyway, right? So why are you concerned about all this?

I'm not saying I agree with your Calvinist views, because I don't. I'm trying to show you that you are not being true to your own Calvinist views. And so maybe what you're going through right now is showing you your Calvinist views are false(?) You decide.

 

[Lambano]

i wanna say my ex…. But she was a bit crazy. But yea, lets go with my ex.

All right, so you’ve at least got a general idea of what it’s like to be loved. That’ll have to do.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

It sounds like you don't not know for sure yet if you're someone God has decided will be a believer, or someone God has decided will not be a believer. Does God need your input for you to be the believer or unbeliever he has decided ahead of time you are going to be?

I think if I had your Calvinist views I would just go on my merry way and just accept whatever God has determined will automatically happen. You believe you can't change anything anyway, right? So why are you concerned about all this?

I'm not saying I agree with your Calvinist views, because I don't. I'm trying to show you that you are not being true to your own Calvinist views. And so maybe what you're going through right now is showing you your Calvinist views are false(?) You decide.

i am a full 5 pt calvinist. Always. Today at church, we had a sermon that i felt was directly for me, Luke 19, the story of zacchaeus. Zacchaeus was a seeker of Jesus, and Jesus called out to him to come down from the sycamore tree and that He had to go with him to his house. I am like zacchaeus in that i desire to know Christ, and at His time of choosing, He will reveal Himself to me. As it says in john, God the father calls us first, then we can have a heart change.
Calvinism is Biblically true. And so i wait for Jesus, as i do believe God the father has called me, now i await my own heart change, and then i can accept Jesus correctly.

today being the first Sunday of the month, we had communion. I dont participate in it, but i did think today as it was going on that my addiction is whats keeping me from God. Im choosing my addiction over God. And i thought i dont like this, its keeping me from something better. Today was a powerful day at church for me.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

my addiction is whats keeping me from God. Im choosing my addiction over God. And i thought i dont like this, its keeping me from something better.

No, in Calvinism God is keeping you from something better, not you. He decided before you were born if you're going to be created to be a believer or if you're going to be created to be an unbeliever, and there's nothing you can do about it. That's just the way it is. It has to be that way because if you can help, hinder, or affect the outcome in any way salvation would be your work of righteousness, not God's. That's what Calvinism teaches.

I, personally don't agree with that theology. But if you say Calvinism is true then that is what you are saying is true. That's why I say you should just go on your merry way and let what happens, happen. I mean, from a spiritual aspect. If you want to be set free from your addiction for the sake of normalcy in your natural, unsaved life I would enroll in a substance abuse program and stop waiting for God to do what your own beliefs say he has not ordained to happen for you.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

No, in Calvinism God is keeping you from something better, not you. He decided before you were born if you're going to be created to be a believer or if you're going to be created to be an unbeliever, and there's nothing you can do about it. That's just the way it is. It has to be that way because if you can help, hinder, or affect the outcome in any way salvation would be your work of righteousness, not God's. That's what Calvinism teaches.

I, personally don't agree with that theology. But if you say Calvinism is true then that is what you are saying is true. That's why I say you should just go on your merry way and let what happens, happen. I mean, from a spiritual aspect. If you want to be set free from your addiction for the sake of normalcy in your natural, unsaved life I would enroll in a substance abuse program and stop waiting for God to do what your own beliefs say he has not ordained to happen for you.

thanks for your input.

 

[Bob Estey]

Hello all. My question tonite is, i think, going to be lopsided on here, but still, im curious.

do you view Jesus as Saviour? Or Judge?

i’ll go first. I see Jesus as Judge. Do i think He is the Saviour of mankind? Yes, for His elect. When i say i see Him as Judge, it is meant for The unsaved. If we are not saved, then He wont grant us forgiveness.

this is now where belief vs faith comes in. I think the term “unsaved” covers a lot of different people; false converts, atheists, non christians, etc. i think the unsaved may or may not have belief, but the one thing that connects them all is no faith. James tells us that even demons believe in God, but they lack faith.

I think of Jesus as a Saviour and a teacher, off the top of my head.

 

[Lambano]

Today at church, we had a sermon that i felt was directly for me, Luke 19, the story of zacchaeus. Zacchaeus was a seeker of Jesus, and Jesus called out to him to come down from the sycamore tree and that He had to go with him to his house. I am like zacchaeus in that i desire to know Christ, and at His time of choosing, He will reveal Himself to me.

Wonderful! Did you notice how Jesus responded to Zacchaeus's initiative in seeking him out and even climbing the sycamore tree? Or the Centurion seeking healing for his servant? Or the paralytic's friends who took the trouble to climb the roof and lower him down to see Jesus? Or the woman with the hemorrhage who wanted to just touch his robe? Or the lady who rubbed perfume on his feet? He didn't turn any of them away; he responded to their faith; see Luke 7:50. This is what Jesus the Savior looks like.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Wonderful! Did you notice how Jesus responded to Zacchaeus's initiative in seeking him out and even climbing the sycamore tree? Or the Centurion seeking healing for his servant? Or the paralytic's friends who took the trouble to climb the roof and lower him down to see Jesus? Or the woman with the hemorrhage who wanted to just touch his robe? Or the lady who rubbed perfume on his feet? He didn't turn any of them away; he responded to their faith; see Luke 7:50. This is what Jesus the Savior looks like.

whats so interesting is i asked myself, what if Jesus came to my town today to meet people, would i have gone? Prior to hearing this sermon, i would have said a very fast NO. And thats when i realized i havent been actively seeking God, because of my fear of Him. I see Him as judge, not Saviour. Zacchaeus actively wanted to meet Jesus, he had no fear of Him. I feel like im a step closer. Only 99 more steps to go.

 

[Lambano]

i am a full 5 pt calvinist.

@Lifelong_sinner, I see in your status that you've left, so it may be that you'll never see this.

I wonder if I did you a disfavor in not challenging your view of a limited atonement. (Was that your intent in coming here?) But on the hope you may someday see this, reaching for his saddlebag, he takes a rusty sword into his hand. One has to perform an unnatural act on John's use of the word "world" in 1 John 2:1-2 to believe "world" means "Christians not of our immediate group". "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." "The World" includes YOU, @Lifelong_sinner. Believing this is an integral part of the Gospel Paul preached and you claim to believe but really don't. "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures" (1 Corinthians 15:3) "Knowest thou, @Lifelong_sinner, that Christ died for thy sins?"

This thread shows you believe in a systematic theology, but you never did have faith in the very one to whom the systematic theology points. Were you to actually believe that Christ died for your sins, you might see Jesus as Savior, not as Judge.

Your posts #34 and #39 show you may be on the right track, so maybe the Father doesn't need my clumsy help. It is my prayer that you someday come to see Jesus as your savior. I would happily embrace you as a brother.

P.S. I also pray you get delivered from whatever this nasty addiction or besetting sin of yours is.