How do you view Jesus?

[Lifelong_sinner]

Hello all. My question tonite is, i think, going to be lopsided on here, but still, im curious.

do you view Jesus as Saviour? Or Judge?

i’ll go first. I see Jesus as Judge. Do i think He is the Saviour of mankind? Yes, for His elect. When i say i see Him as Judge, it is meant for The unsaved. If we are not saved, then He wont grant us forgiveness.

this is now where belief vs faith comes in. I think the term “unsaved” covers a lot of different people; false converts, atheists, non christians, etc. i think the unsaved may or may not have belief, but the one thing that connects them all is no faith. James tells us that even demons believe in God, but they lack faith.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello, lls,

I view Jesus as my Lord, King, and Master. The savior of the world, who was propitiation for all of mankinds sin since Adam. Because of Adam we all die from this world. But the last Adam that is Christ- is a life-giving spirit (1 Corinthians 15:1-3;45-49). That according to scriptures Jesus died for all of sin, not just believers sins but unbelievers too. And according to scriptures He was buried and raised again on the third day according to scriptures. God showed Jesus openly to those who were chosen to see him.

It’s important to know that fact is true that believers must believe in these things to become born again otherwise they die with a loss if they just believe that Jesus died for their sins and has not risen; the faith they have is useless and in vain.

It’s good to share these reminders to others and share them in a loving way by and through the spirit which we receive from God. When we do sin we have an advocate that is the Lord Jesus who pleads our case in which we are forgiven, and that we can ask our Father in heaven with request to help us by the spirit. To have love: peace, joy, gentleness, forgiveness, mercy, kindness, and the things of the spirit according to (Galatians 5:12-23) and to help us overcome the things we may have addictions to in our flesh which are hard to overcome come especially if one is not constantly in connection with the spirit in renewing their mind towards the things of God.

It is always good to share in kindness, love, humility with others, in truth.

 

[Lambano]

A brother on another, long-defunct forum who came to Christ from a Buddhist background (strange how looking at things from an unusual perspective allows you to see things you didn't see before) taught me to see Jesus as the anointed King of the World. What in Christianese we would call "Lord". As such, I understand both roles of Savior and Judge. A good King both loves and protects His people and judges His people. (Obviously I relate better to Him in His role of Savior, but the Judge is always there in the background.) Where we disagree is how one can become part of His people. That argument goes back four centuries, and I don't have the energy to fight any more. I'm laying my sword down. Jesus does what Jesus does; you do what you do. Go to the King.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: How do you view Jesus?

Two possibilities:
"After the flesh" = the lowly, humble, and obedient servant all
The Way To The Cross, to be The Saviour
Prophecy, Under The Law

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

Grace, In The Revelation Of God's MYSTERY, we NOW "know HIM...":

"...No longer after the flesh" (2 Co 5:16) = The Risen, Ascended, And
Glorified LORD, And Head Of The Body of CHRIST, Today, Under GRACE!

Soon {or later} to "Gather His Body" To Heaven, for JUDGEment!
MYSTERY Ended...

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

...Prophesy resumed:
God's prophesied second coming has a "sheep and goats" JUDGEment!
+
At the end of time, heading Into Eternity, The Last Judgment of the dead,
The LORD JESUS CHRIST Is "God, The Righteous JUDGE On
The Great White Throne!!
----------------------------------
(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL “to SEE,” today,?)

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!

 

[Pearl]

do you view Jesus as Saviour? Or Judge?

He is predominantly Saviour - that is his purpose.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. John 3:17

He will judge those who do not turn to him in this life; but those that do have already been judged and are part of God's family already.

Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, John 5:22

But his main purpose is as our Saviour.

 

[Lambano]

Okay, I forgot my dictum, "You can't fix broken people; you can't even fix yourself". But I do still care about broken people, and God help me, I hope I never get to the point where I stop caring. Though it would be easier if I did. But I'm going to stop preaching at you, @Lifelong, because it's not working and it has a high probability of just p___ing you off. (Can I get an "Amen"?)

You're brushing against some of the reasons I do not accept Calvinism as the correct interpretive paradigm for understanding the Gospel, though I have to respect the intellectual-framework horse it rode in on. But I've laid down my sword, or to modernize the metaphor, I'm holstering my gun. (Do you know how difficult it is to concealed-carry Dirty Harry's S&W 29 with the 6-inch barrel appendix IWB?) So let's stay within that paradigm for now. Given a Limited Atonement, seeing Jesus as your Savior logically requires that you see yourself as Elect. One of the characteristics of an Elect child of God is that they do not sin continuously, 1 John 3:6. (I think most people miss the point of that verse, but that's for another thread.) So, you sin continuously, therefore you are not a member of the elect. Did I read the logic right? However, there are other indicators of Election. Most Calvinists would say that the non-elect cannot understand or believe the Gospel (1 Corinthians 2:14), but you do. (That's one of the internal contradictions @marks brought up in another thread.) How did that happen?

 

[Brakelite]

Creator, and therefore the Boss.

 

[Lambano]

He is predominantly Saviour - that is his purpose.

Pearl, I would say that during His life on earth, Jesus intentionally laid aside the role of “Judge” in order to identify with us slaves to the power of Sin; see the beautiful poem at Philippians 2:5-11.

The Gospels in narrating His life on earth thus necessarily emphasize His role of Savior, and that necessarily skews my view of Him.

 

[Wrangler]

do you view Jesus as Saviour? Or Judge?

Why do you parse the proper way to view Jesus? It is not a full understanding of the man to view him as Judge-only, Savior-only or lord-only.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Okay, I forgot my dictum, "You can't fix broken people; you can't even fix yourself". But I do still care about broken people, and God help me, I hope I never get to the point where I stop caring. Though it would be easier if I did. But I'm going to stop preaching at you, @Lifelong, because it's not working and it has a high probability of just p___ing you off. (Can I get an "Amen"?)

You're brushing against some of the reasons I do not accept Calvinism as the correct interpretive paradigm for understanding the Gospel, though I have to respect the intellectual-framework horse it rode in on. But I've laid down my sword, or to modernize the metaphor, I'm holstering my gun. (Do you know how difficult it is to concealed-carry Dirty Harry's S&W 29 with the 6-inch barrel appendix IWB?) So let's stay within that paradigm for now. Given a Limited Atonement, seeing Jesus as your Savior logically requires that you see yourself as Elect. One of the characteristics of an Elect child of God is that they do not sin continuously, 1 John 3:6. (I think most people miss the point of that verse, but that's for another thread.) So, you sin continuously, therefore you are not a member of the elect. Did I read the logic right? However, there are other indicators of Election. Most Calvinists would say that the non-elect cannot understand or believe the Gospel (1 Corinthians 2:14), but you do. (That's one of the internal contradictions @marks brought up in another thread.) How did that happen?

im not sure, i grew up in a church, i was going to church 9 months before i was even born. I’ve always believed the gospel, but only in the last couple of years have i really taken it seriously and studied it. Everyday i study the gospel trying to learn it, and thats where the frustration kicks in. All this studying and still not saved. Im like the lone kid outside the toy store, nose up against the window, watching all yall other kids inside the store having a great time.

 

[Pearl]

Pearl, I would say that during His life on earth, Jesus intentionally laid aside the role of “Judge” in order to identify with us slaves to the power of Sin; see the beautiful poem at Philippians 2:5-11.

The Gospels in narrating His life on earth thus necessarily emphasize His role of Savior, and that necessarily skews my view of Him.

How can a Christian have a 'skewed' view of Jesus? He has saved me, so I am judged worthy of everlasting life. Those who aren't saved will be judged at the last day.

I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.
“If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. John 12:46-48

 

[Pearl]

im not sure, i grew up in a church, i was going to church 9 months before i was even born. I’ve always believed the gospel, but only in the last couple of years have i really taken it seriously and studied it. Everyday i study the gospel trying to learn it, and thats where the frustration kicks in. All this studying and still not saved. Im like the lone kid outside the toy store, nose up against the window, watching all yall other kids inside the store having a great time.

Studying the bible or the Gospel will not save anybody. You have to approach Jesus directly and ask Him to take over/come into your life. Then he will teach you and guide you.

 

[Lambano]

How can a Christian have a 'skewed' view of Jesus? He has saved me, so I am judged worthy of everlasting life.

Well said!

 

[Lambano]

Im like the lone kid outside the toy store, nose up against the window, watching all yall other kids inside the store having a great time.

I could've written that 19 years ago. All these years later, it seems weird to be seen as the kid to be envied. But maybe I'm seeing what I want to see, my own face reflected in the computer screen.

I need to think about this. Maybe I need to shut up an listen a while longer. I'll leave you for with the question I was asked: "Why won't you trust Me?"

 

[Ferris Bueller]

do you view Jesus as Saviour? Or Judge?

Friend.

I had to think about it for a minute and look at how I relate to him on a daily basis. And so that is how I summarize my relationship with Jesus. He's my friend. A big brother, a dad. I'm way past the heaven and hell issue. Now I focus on living for him with his help and guidance every day in every moment, in every circumstance.

 

[Enoch111]

do you view Jesus as Saviour? Or Judge?

He is both. He is a Savior to those who obey the Gospel and a Judge to those who do not. God the Father has ordained God the Son to be the Judge of all men:

Because He [GOD] hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man [CHRIST] whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He [GOD] hath raised Him [CHRIST] from the dead. (Acts 17:31)

Judgement Day will be a specific day in the future. At present God commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30)

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

I'm way past the heaven and hell issue. Now I focus on living for him with his help and guidance every day in every moment, in every circumstance.

then you are wayyyy past me. To really throw you for a loop, i was asked once, if everyone went to Heaven, and no one went to hell, would you still try to be a christian? My response was no. I’d be hell on wheels. If i could live as i wanted, i would just do whatever bad i could. I honestly think the fear of hell is the only thing that im concerned with these days though. I dont have a relationship with Jesus, but its because im not saved. When i pray at nite, i pray for others, not myself usually. I know im not saved, i know im wicked, and i know i deserve everything bad that happens to me plus some. I dont wanna goto hell, but i know i deserve it.

 

[Cassandra]

@Lifelong_sinner
Hold up just a minute.

You say "I dont have a relationship with Jesus," but then you say

"When i pray at nite, i pray for others, not myself usually." So you speak to the One you don't have a relationship with, nightly? That is quite a non relationship!

And you say "i know im wicked, and i know i deserve everything bad that happens to me plus some. I dont wanna goto hell, but i know i deserve it." We can all say that. Not a Christian on this board who would disagree.

I was just like you.

Do you understand what the difference is between justification and sanctification? Justification we are righteous by faith. we ask for forgiveness, and when God sees us, Jesus stands in our place. Sanctifcation is the becoming the new man.

When we are saved, we become a new creature in Christ. 2 Cor 5:17 ; Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." We no longer desire to be like we were before. But it takes awhile. We have to overcome, and many times, we can't do this immediately. It takes time for anything to grow.

Before I stopped smoking, I thought it was the reason I wouldn't be saved. I was scared that if I died before I stopped, I wouldn't make it. But God was with me the whole time I was struggling. He knows what you want to do. Ask for forgiveness first, and then just stay with him. Pray and read. Discuss your fears with him. He knows you.

There are always worries that will come between you and your faith in God. Just read His Word, and note what is written, even if you feel unworthy. You have to trust Him.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

then you are wayyyy past me.

Maybe I am, but it's a place every believer comes to eventually. John talks about it here:

"There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. The one who fears has not been perfected in love." 1 John 4:18​

There comes a time for a Christian when the fear of hell that (rightly) motivated them to seek and serve the Lord is no longer their motivation to seek and serve Him. Instead their motivation now comes from a real love and appreciation for what God is in their life.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

i was asked once, if everyone went to Heaven, and no one went to hell, would you still try to be a christian? My response was no. I’d be hell on wheels. If i could live as i wanted, i would just do whatever bad i could.

I might have said something similar years ago, but I can now honestly say that I don't value the payday sin pays. Sin costs more than it pays and leaves a lot of brokenness and hurt behind it. Now that I've lived without that kind of hurt in my life I would not go back to it if I suddenly found out there is no heaven and no hell. I might bend a few of the 'rules' that don't seem to be so consequential, but I would not go back to the sin that has cost me so much to indulge mentally, physically, and emotionally.

My biggest motivation for living the Christian life is enjoying the presence of God. See, the Christian doesn't get to experience the felt presence of God when he acts badly. After a while of being a Christian you begin to really long for and appreciate the peace and joy his presence brings. And so I miss the peace and joy of God's presence when I neglect Him by shrinking down into sinful or godless thoughts and actions.

The question you posed in your post is kind of a misguided question because if there is no heaven and no hell then the reality of God's presence in this life goes away too. It's an incomplete question at best. If Christianity was not real, that means much more than just there being no heaven and no hell to go to.