How many hours in the first Day?

[Forsakenone]

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Genesis 1:3

I was surprised to find out how many Christians refute that Jesus made the illumination from the celestial body called the Sun in Genesis 1:3.

So I just wanted to ask anyone with a different opinion just one question, how many hours were there in the first Day?

 

[RANDOR]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm......lets see............beats me........as long as there is nap time in there some where.

 

[shturt678]

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Genesis 1:3

I was surprised to find out how many Christians refute that Jesus made the illumination from the celestial body called the Sun in Genesis 1:3.

So I just wanted to ask anyone with a different opinion just one question, how many hours were there in the first Day?

Thank you for caring!

God called in light before the making the sun of course in Gen.1:3 then in v.5, 24 hour days or close, correct?

Old Jack,

btw always enjoy this area.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I beat this to death on the evolution debates a couple of months ago

Before creation there was no such thing as "time"

God first created "day" ... it is a measurement of time , it has nothing to do with the sun

He also created "light" .... which does not require the sun .

To this "day" .... everything mankind measures time-wise is based on a "day"

"Day" can be expanded to weeks , months , years

"Day" can be reduced to hours , minutes , seconds , milli-seconds

But "Day" remains the anchor

God knew what he was doing

 

[shturt678]

I beat this to death on the evolution debates a couple of months ago

Before creation there was no such thing as "time"

God first created "day" ... it is a measurement of time , it has nothing to do with the sun

He also created "light" .... which does not require the sun .

To this "day" .... everything mankind measures time-wise is based on a "day"

"Day" can be expanded to weeks , months , years

"Day" can be reduced to hours , minutes , seconds , milli-seconds

But "Day" remains the anchor

God knew what he was doing

Thank you for caring!

I had some small chest pains on this one at my ol' age, ie, we agree to agree! A miracle for sure!

Old disagreeable Jack

 

[Forsakenone]

1

I beat this to death on the evolution debates a couple of months ago

Before creation there was no such thing as "time"

I agree, yet what principle do you based your interpretation on.

The principle that I based my prophesy of scripture defines 'eternal' as being any physical substance or process which has no beginning nor end, which can neither it be created nor destroyed form either, being a constant, consistent nature which always existed and will always exist, it is timeless.

God first created "day" ... it is a measurement of time , it has nothing to do with the sun

LOL, it has everything to do with the celestial body called the Sun, more specifically the expenditure of energy.

Genesis 1:1 establishes that physical world call the Universe had a beginning, being a spherical body consisting of massless matter [heaven/space] from which mass [earth/dust] originated from. It does not establish that the Eternal God made the heaven and earth, but rather Christ, the Son of God who was the only begotten of the Eternal God.

Since any physical substance which has a beginning can not be eternal, neither can it be since it had a beginning, this is supported by the Gospel in 1 Tim 6:16;
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Immortal is the physical nature which either has no beginning, will end or a physical nature which has a beginning, but will never end. Again, can you demonstrate any physical substance or life process that is known or observed to exist perpetually? Base upon Genesis 1:1, the Universe and everything within it was created in the beginning. The Scriptures record in Luke 21:33, "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away."

Unless you subscribe to the Big Bang theory which is based upon the premise that the 'primordial atom' divided resulting in a instantaneous expanse of space, matter, time and energy to form
all the known and observed universe. As I am sure you are aware, the Big Bang theory is the interpretation of Genesis 1:1 published in scientific form by a Catholic Priest in 1930's or thereabout. It was,
later declared by Papal decree of Pope Pius XII in the 1950's as validation of the Roman Catholic faith.

He also created "light" .... which does not require the sun .

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Gen 1:3

Darkness already was present, as evident in Genesis 1:2, wherein it was written:
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters

.

To this "day" .... everything mankind measures time-wise is based on a "day"

No measurement of time is based upon the "day" first given in Genesis 1:3.

Time is the measurement of the expended energy relative to the two great lights of Genesis 1:14 which was the period in the procreative process of life on earth whereby the gravitation pull on the Earth from the Sun had begun to fully rotate thereby producing the two lights upon the earth surface.

Ask Jasher, he was there when the sun and the moon stood still.

Thank you for caring!

God called in light before the making the sun of course in Gen.1:3 then in v.5, 24 hour days or close, correct?

Old Jack,

btw always enjoy this area.

John 11:9-10
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

We know know that the are twenty four hours in a 'day' and looking at the picture above that 24 hours would have been divided in 1/2 since the earth
was not rotating on it axis yet since the gravitational force resulting from the sun hadn't fully rotated to produce that day/night upon the surface of all the earth.

Procreation is the process of creation, thus let there be. With gravity on earth, the 5th day, God then by began bring forth life from the waters of the earth that had been gathered together to form the seas.

Of course there is the "spiritual light" and the "physical light".
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? John 3:12

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

.

SIGH

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

I've explained this elsewhere on another site. Not all of Genesis was written as an allegory, and some parts, such as the account of creation, was written as a pourquoi. Truth is more in the general concepts than in the details. But some key profundities that can't be ignored are that God created the heavens and the earth and that God created Man in his own image, separate and distinct from the animals, and nascent in full and exclusive relationship to God that no other creature enjoys. Evolution claims that man ascended through evolutionary progress from animals and denies the unique and divine manner in which we truly came about. Trying to harmonize the Bible with evolution is futile.

But on the other side of it is trying to take the details, which are written in pourquoi form, in a literal sense. God inspires the writers of scripture with general concepts and they write it down in the context of their culture and understanding. This is a purely Catholic teaching, and I don't expect everyone to agree with it, but it should be pointed out that author of Genesis, likely Moses, didn't even understand that the earth was round. Divine concepts were filtered by the limits of human understanding, therefore it's futile to read it in too literal a sense.

 

[Forsakenone]

but it should be pointed out that author of Genesis, likely Moses, didn't even understand that the earth was round.

Care to explain how Moses was able to write the Torah using the written spoken word considering that Egyptians didn't have knowledge of the written spoken word but rather used images called hieroglyphics?

If the Egyptians didn't have the knowledge or ability to use the written spoken word, then how would Moses have obtained that knowledge. If you hold that they did then I would be more than interested in hearing how you reach that conclusion. It seems that almost all Christians subscribe to the theory that the ability to read and write the spoken word simply evolved over time. I think not, has it improved and advanced over time, yes- but the principle itself hasn't changed. Did you teach yourself how to read and write?

Yet in regards to the reference regarding that the author of Genesis didn't even understand that the earth was round. Is a circle round? So was Isaiah 40:22 written before after man discovered that the earth was round[?] But of course the earth isn't round---it's a sphere!

__________________________

Columbus didn't know for a fact that the earth was spherical, since no one had personal knowledge of the earth's shape but the natural philosophers of the time believed the earth was a sphere based upon Genesis 1:14 which indicates the celestial bodies in the heaven were " for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

The first thing one will observe from the celestial bodies, one is that they are spheres and two, that they do not emit light but reflect the light luminated from the celestial body we call the Sun. So reason would suggest that if all the other celestial bodies where spherical in shape, then the earth too must be spherical also. If I draw a circle on a piece of paper;

O

and it is still flat, now use the vertical N-S line and the E-W line, known as Latitude and Longitude the principle becomes evident;

Yet Columbus, or rather the natural philosophers, based upon the trade routes that followed the shoreline down and around Africa to the Orient, concluded that following a westerly heading that they wouldn't fall off the end of the earth but rather would sail directly to the Orient. However, they didn't reach the Orient, they sailed into the Americas.

______________________________________


But in regards to the other poster's "sigh" comment and your "pourquoi form" comment that Genesis was written in which suggest you hold it to be fictional only serves to validate and perpetual the perception of Thomas Paine who said;

"the Christian system of faith it appears as a species of atheism; a sort of religious denial of God. It professes to believe in a man rather than in God.
It is a compound made up chiefly of man-ism with but little deism, and is as near to atheism as twilight is to darkness."

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Care to explain how Moses was able to write the Torah using the written spoken word considering that Egyptians didn't have knowledge of the written spoken word but rather used images called hieroglyphics?

If the Egyptians didn't have the knowledge or ability to use the written spoken word, then how would Moses have obtained that knowledge. If you hold that they did then I would be more than interested in hearing how you reach that conclusion. It seems that almost all Christians subscribe to the theory that the ability to read and write the spoken word simply evolved over time. I think not, has it improved and advanced over time, yes- but the principle itself hasn't changed. Did you teach yourself how to read and write?


Your information was incorrect. Not only was Egypt highly literate, but in fact it was the most advanced civilization at the time in art, literature, and science. Moses received a world class education that only a Prince of Egypt could be blessed with. It's the reason he is the most likely candidate to possess the level of education and skill to write the Pentateuch. Your argument isn't with me, it's with the settled consensus of Bible scholars who favor Moses as the most likely candidate for these writings.


Yet in regards to the reference regarding that the author of Genesis didn't even understand that the earth was round. Is a circle round? So was Isaiah 40:22 written before after man discovered that the earth was round[?] But of course the earth isn't round---it's a sphere!

Fundamentalists read way too much into that passage. The "circle of the earth" most likely refers to what a man sees when he rotates 360 degrees looking at the horizon; a circle. Until international sea routes were established, there simply was no reasonable way for people to understand that the earth was round.

Columbus didn't know for a fact that the earth was spherical, since no one had personal knowledge of the earth's shape but the natural philosophers of the time believed the earth was a sphere based upon Genesis 1:14 which indicates the celestial bodies in the heaven were " for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

Again taking unjustified liberties with Scripture. Not only does the Bible not state definitively that people know the earth was a sphere, but quite the opposite was indicated during the account of Joshua's battle in which the sun was stayed in the sky to provide light for an extended fight. The rendering betrayed an lack of knowledge of the rotation of the earth to cause the sun to rise and set. Like everyone at the time, the writer of Joshua believed that the sun, moon, and stars rotated around the earth. This actually strengthens the Catholic argument for Sitz im Leben, (standing in life) that people were inspired by God with general concepts but wrote according to their culture and the limits of their understanding.




Yet Columbus, or rather the natural philosophers, based upon the trade routes that followed the shoreline down and around Africa to the Orient, concluded that following a westerly heading that they wouldn't fall off the end of the earth but rather would sail directly to the Orient. However, they didn't reach the Orient, they sailed into the Americas.

Yes. We all learned this in second grade. Thanks for the refresher course.

______________________________________


But in regards to the other poster's "sigh" comment and your "pourquoi form" comment that Genesis was written in which suggest you hold it to be fictional only serves to validate and perpetual the perception of Thomas Paine who said;

"the Christian system of faith it appears as a species of atheism; a sort of religious denial of God. It professes to believe in a man rather than in God.
It is a compound made up chiefly of man-ism with but little deism, and is as near to atheism as twilight is to darkness."

There's a difference between fictional and myth, a difference you would understand if you were familiar with the writings of C.S. Lewis and J.R. Tolkien. Fiction is an account completely fabricated as a form of entertainment whether in movie or book form. But myth holds a stronger power, the ability to convey truth using stories that might not be literally true, but contain within it incontrovertible truths. The parables of Christ are a good example of this. The word "myth" has been used so dismissively by people that it's seen as a synonym for falsehood when in fact the real "myth" is the exact opposite.

It's something fundamentalists have a hard time grasping. The book of Job, for instance, appears to be the work of a playwright, and the lore of Job had such staying power that he was even mentioned in the New Testament as well. But he may not have existed as a literal person, and the writing style of the book seems to indicate that it's a work of drama meant to be acted out on stage. This becomes especially true when it starts out with a conversation between God and Satan that no man could have actually witnessed. The long, drawn out lamentations of Job and his friends, and his wife, are allusions to life and the suffering it contains.

If I explain this to a group of fundamentalists then cue the gasp. But if I explain it to a Jewish audience, there's a strong cord of agreement. It's a long standing Jewish tradition to tell stories that bring the listener into a deeper contemplation of life and God's relationship to man. Stories that involve suffering, even suffering with no apparent justification, are near and dear to Jewish hearts. Their faith doesn't require everything that they hear to be a literal, factual event. In fact, a faith that demands this is a weak faith indeed in my estimation.

Bringing it back to Genesis, I can have absolute faith in the very first verse, but I'm not the least bit troubled by the thought that the details of the unfolding of creation were the product of a human mind with limited understanding attempting to process the complex ideas by which God inspired him. Therefore they can't possibly be taken in a literal sense. But as I said before, the general concepts that God is the originator of all we see and know and that God created man in his own image, that we didn't descend from crap flinging apes like the evolutionists claim are the only things I really need to understand. There are some things best not to overthink. And in the fundamentalist camp, there's been a lot of overthinking.

 

[Forsakenone]

Your information was incorrect. Not only was Egypt highly literate, but in fact it was the most advanced civilization at the time in art, literature, and science. Moses received a world class education that only a Prince of Egypt could be blessed with. It's the reason he is the most likely candidate to possess the level of education and skill to write the Pentateuch.

Can you produce one work of the Egyptians using the written spoken word? I agree that Egypt was the most advanced civilization known at the time, which is even more validation to the Divine origin of the written spoken word.
10 And the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God; and on them was written according to all the words, which the LORD spake with you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly. Deut 9:10
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. John 8:5-6

When you see our Heavenly Father you know that He is the Son of the only one true and eternal God.

Your argument isn't with me, it's with the settled consensus of Bible scholars who favor Moses as the most likely candidate for these writings.

I am not arguing with you, and I apologize if I have given you that impression. Likewise your argument isn't with me either. John 12:44

 

[River Jordan]

Your argument isn't with me, it's with the settled consensus of Bible scholars who favor Moses as the most likely candidate for these writings.

That's not the consensus at all. The majority of Biblical scholars are of the multiple-authorship hypothesis.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Genesis 1:3

I was surprised to find out how many Christians refute that Jesus made the illumination from the celestial body called the Sun in Genesis 1:3.

So I just wanted to ask anyone with a different opinion just one question, how many hours were there in the first Day?

We could say there are 24 hours in a day

But the next question would be .... how long is an hour ?

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

That's not the consensus at all. The majority of Biblical scholars are of the multiple-authorship hypothesis.

Not quite true because even those who suggest multiple authors can't name multiple candidates. The Pentateuch was written in a single time period with a singular prosaic style and at a time when that level of literacy was an extremely rare skill, the candidates are very few indeed. Besides that, being equal with you in my inability to establish anything for certain, my argument wasn't about Moses's authorship, it was about Sitz im leben, the Catholic teaching of divine inspiration. That pertains far more directly to the thread topic than who wrote Deuteronomy.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Genesis 1:3

I was surprised to find out how many Christians refute that Jesus made the illumination from the celestial body called the Sun in Genesis 1:3.

So I just wanted to ask anyone with a different opinion just one question, how many hours were there in the first Day?

You asked only one question , but it requires answering your comment about Genesis 1:3

God first created "light" ... the sun is not required for that , go into a deep dark cave and strike two rocks together .... the spark is "light" ... make a bonfire out of wood ... the flames produce "light" .... glow worms and fireflies produce "light" without requiring the sun etc.

Yes , he certainly did go on to make the sun moon & stars to give us daylight and nighttime , and for us to use as a regulator , planetary orbits for different seasons etc. , but that is something completely different .

It is important for Christians to sort that out because it is a favorite of atheists who use it to de-bunk the bible .... they say there could not be light , nor day , without the sun .... they are completely wrong

 

[Forsakenone]

We could say there are 24 hours in a day

Yes we can because a 'day' is comprised of the visible light and the invisible light.

But the next question would be .... how long is an hour ?

Little less than three cubits wouldn't you think?

God first created "light" ...

So did that 'light' cause the waters to freeze?

The reason I ask is because it is written in Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." , in Genesis 1:2 it is written, "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon face of the waters." Since darkness was already upon the face of the deep, and the visibile light made in Genesis 1:3 was the divided from invisible light called darkness by God according to the Word in Genesis 1:4.

Which is interesting since in John 4:24 it is written that "God is a Spirit." Which for the sake of discussion, how do you reconcile the term the Spirit of God, since it would seem that the Spirit of God would be saying that the Spirit of the Spirit walked upon the frozen waters that covered the earth? My personal opinion is that the Holy Ghost walked upon the waters that covered the face of the earth.

God first created "light" ... the sun is not required for that , go into a deep dark cave and strike two rocks together .... the spark is "light" ... make a bonfire out of wood ... the flames produce "light" .... glow worms and fireflies produce "light" without requiring the sun etc.

Man did not exist on Earth to strike two rocks together.
Trees did not exist on Earth to burn as to produce the flame from a fire.
Insects nor any living organism existed on Earth to generate biological luminary substances.

So yes, in my humble opinion the procreation of life on earth would have required the visible light that illuminates the heaven from the celestial body we call the Sun.