How to defend the trinity?

[MatthewG]

It's futile.

Just try to teach about the spirit, and how we live by it, faith, the Lord Jesus Christ, hope in God or something.

(Have given up caring or worrying about people and their talks about the trinity myself). Do have my own views on it; and believe it is a man-made doctrine and one that will never go away and will always remain and cause problems between other people who in their heart follow God; and yet because they see things differently they will have problems by those who say... No! IT must be done this way.

Says who? Man?

Trust God over man, and test all things and read that bible is my encouragement.

 

[theefaith]

Absolutely no. Jesus said those who deny Him, His Father in heaven will also deny. They are a package deal so to speak. You cannot have one without the other. Its why Jesus said to see Him was to see the Father and that the Father and Him are One and why Thomas the Jew called Jesus His Lord and his God which would be blasphemy for any Jew. And Jesus did not rebuke Thomas for calling Him his God but to the contrary accepted his worship when he called Him God.

Jesus asked on several occasions who do you say that I am ? On one of those occasions Peter declared He was the Son of the Living God to which Jesus replied flesh and blood did not reveal that to you but My Father in heaven did. Jesus said to the pharisee's why are you trying to kill Me to which they replied you being a man make yourself out to be God. And Jesus said because I say that I am Gods Son ? to which angered them even more and He escaped from them once again. They knew Hr claimed to be God and the Apostles called Him God in several of their writings.

hope this helps !!!

thanks

 

[ChristisGod]

thanks

You are very welcome !

 

[ChristisGod]

It's futile.

Just try to teach about the spirit, and how we live by it, faith, the Lord Jesus Christ, hope in God or something.

(Have given up caring or worrying about people and their talks about the trinity myself). Do have my own views on it; and believe it is a man-made doctrine and one that will never go away and will always remain and cause problems between other people who in their heart follow God; and yet because they see things differently they will have problems by those who say... No! IT must be done this way.

Says who? Man?

Trust God over man, and test all things and read that bible is my encouragement.

Do you confess and believe like Thomas in John 20:28 that Jesus is God ?

 

[theefaith]

It's futile.

Just try to teach about the spirit, and how we live by it, faith, the Lord Jesus Christ, hope in God or something.

(Have given up caring or worrying about people and their talks about the trinity myself). Do have my own views on it; and believe it is a man-made doctrine and one that will never go away and will always remain and cause problems between other people who in their heart follow God; and yet because they see things differently they will have problems by those who say... No! IT must be done this way.

Says who? Man?

Trust God over man, and test all things and read that bible is my encouragement.

men have the authority of Jesus Christ

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 mph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

The problem with the “Bible alone”!

You can easily see why the false doctrine of the “Bible alone” causes so many problems and why we can simply ignor creeds, councils, dogma, and decrees of the holy apostles teaching infallibility with the authority of Christ!

“Bible alone” is false doctrine
Negates the word of God, apostolic councils, creeds, cannons, decrees, dogma, and the teaching authority of the apostles!

The false doctrine of “the Bible Alone” is an attack on Christ and His holy church!
Christ and his church are one acts 9:4
To reject the church or church teaching is to reject Christ!

An attack on the holy church and her divine authority!

Even Christ who is the truth itself is excluded!

Scratch these verses that refer to authority other than the “Bible Alone” our of your Bible!

Isa 22:21-22 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 1:32 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 Jn 21:17 Acts 1:17 acts 1:26 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 20:28 eph 2:20 and too many more to mention!

 

[MatthewG]

My belief is that Jesus Christ is the Lord God Almighty. @Christophany

What do you believe about this? Do you believe that this is true? No one ever seems to talk about it or they always seem to pass it up and disagree that no Jesus is not the Lord God Almighty - after Resurrection.

He still is not the Father though but the Father is living in and through His own Word.

I do not believe anyone has any type of authority except for the Chosen Apostles that were picked by the Lord Jesus Christ; an also Paul as an exception.

No one on this Earth has any type of Authority. Sorry men like to believe they have some type of authority the reality is God is the only authority aside from the earthly governments that have authority in them.

My belief believes the First - Church bride has done been taken so.

You may argue with me if you desire but I have no desire to debate with anyone here about any of these things. You believe how you do because you believe how you do. Either you have been taught a certain way, or you may be consider yourself a bible literalist even. That everything in the bible must be taken literally; you have a lot to amount up to then if that is your path way you choose to go.

Good luck trying to get me to believe anyone has authority over the Faith that God has given to me in his promises by acceptance to continue to walk in faith and worship in spirit and truth. Having Love for God and love for others regardless of their opinions about the bible itself.

God himself is the Heavenly Spiritual Authority. Not man. We have the word of God to read and reference to but if you choose to be a bible literalist that person should take everything literal if they are going to present their porous that way.

 

[theefaith]

My belief is that Jesus Christ is the Lord God Almighty. @Christophany

What do you believe about this? Do you believe that this is true? No one ever seems to talk about it or they always seem to pass it up and disagree that no Jesus is not the Lord God Almighty - after Resurrection.

He still is not the Father though but the Father is living in and through His own Word.

I do not believe anyone has any type of authority except for the Chosen Apostles that were picked by the Lord Jesus Christ; an also Paul as an exception.

No one on this Earth has any type of Authority. Sorry men like to believe they have some type of authority the reality is God is the only authority aside from the earthly governments that have authority in them.

My belief believes the First - Church bride has done been taken so.

You may argue with me if you desire but I have no desire to debate with anyone here about any of these things. You believe how you do because you believe how you do. Either you have been taught a certain way, or you may be consider yourself a bible literalist even. That everything in the bible must be taken literally; you have a lot to amount up to then if that is your path way you choose to go.

Good luck trying to get me to believe anyone has authority over the Faith that God has given to me in his promises by acceptance to continue to walk in faith and worship in spirit and truth. Having Love for God and love for others regardless of their opinions about the bible itself.

God himself is the Heavenly Spiritual Authority. Not man. We have the word of God to read and reference to but if you choose to be a bible literalist that person should take everything literal if they are going to present their porous that way.

”No one on this Earth has any type of Authority”

then don’t believe the Bible
Jn 20:21-23
Who then is governing the church and administering the kingdom?
Who has the ministry of reconciliation?

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

btw I’m curious how you think you can worship in spirit and truth?

 

[MatthewG]

No more comments will be made, thank you for your time.

Take care. And may the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, love of God, and fellowship of the holy spirit be with you and all whom have commented.

 

[DPMartin]

It's futile.

no its not futile, its your responsibility to speak the truth of the matter in the case of the Lord God, no matter if they believe it or not. your attitude seems to find itself in all who think not to speak the gospel because they see its futile. the world wants you to think its futile.

also there's no "defense", you should answer to the reasons for your faith. you don't have to defend heaven.


anyway the Three are One correct? look at any thing that manifests life. there is what it is there is the presence of what it is and the expressions of itself in the presence of what it is. could be a flower a fish a bear a man. in the case of man there is the man his presence and the words he speaks, and any of the three are that person to anyone not that person.

therefore the Living God is who He is, He has a presence (Holy Spirit) and speaks in His Presence (Word of God) all three are shown in the first three verses

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God (the Creator and Judge) created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God (the Presence of God) moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said (God's Word spoken in His Presence), Let there be light: and there was light.

hence the Father (Creator and Judge) Son (the Word of God that is of God) that is in God's Presence (holy Spirit) which any of the Three that is not without the others is God to anyone or anything not God.

 

[MatthewG]

Is it the only thing we should teach about?

What about suffering for Christ Jesus?

What about the understanding of being carnal sold under sin?

What about the flesh vs the spirit?

What about how to live by the spirit?

What about praying to God what is the purpose?

What about living by Faith?

There are many other things to teach on.

 

[theefaith]

no its not futile, its your responsibility to speak the truth of the matter in the case of the Lord God, no matter if they believe it or not. your attitude seems to find itself in all who think not to speak the gospel because they see its futile. the world wants you to think its futile.

also there's no "defense", you should answer to the reasons for your faith. you don't have to defend heaven.


anyway the Three are One correct? look at any thing that manifests life. there is what it is there is the presence of what it is and the expressions of itself in the presence of what it is. could be a flower a fish a bear a man. in the case of man there is the man his presence and the words he speaks, and any of the three are that person to anyone not that person.

therefore the Living God is who He is, He has a presence (Holy Spirit) and speaks in His Presence (Word of God) all three are shown in the first three verses

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God (the Creator and Judge) created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God (the Presence of God) moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said (God's Word spoken in His Presence), Let there be light: and there was light.

hence the Father (Creator and Judge) Son (the Word of God that is of God) that is in God's Presence (holy Spirit) which any of the Three that is not without the others is God to anyone or anything not God.

jude 1:3 contend for thee faith

no only the apostles have authority from Christ to teach Matt 28:19

 

[1234567]

Is the father God?
Is the son God?
Is the HS God?

eternal and uncreated?

i dont think something being eternal and uncreated is what makes it God. Thats like saying that since we have the holy spirit, we are God. When someone is saved, they are the spirit, not the body. If i gave someone one of my kidneys, the kidney is not me and the person it was transplanted in is also not me. im not finding strong biblical evidence of the trinity... actually the opposite. God the father is the only God that im aware of.

 

[1234567]

excellent

since the divinity of Christ and the trinity are Christian doctrines: can you be Christian if you reject them?

Regeting Jesus has nothing to do with believing Jesus is God. It means regecting him as your savior. Thats what I think.

 

[theefaith]

i dont think something being eternal and uncreated is what makes it God. Thats like saying that since we have the holy spirit, we are God. When someone is saved, they are the spirit, not the body. If i gave someone one of my kidneys, the kidney is not me and the person it was transplanted in is also not me. im not finding strong biblical evidence of the trinity... actually the opposite. God the father is the only God that im aware of.

who is saved? Matt 24:13
How do you get saved?

 

[theefaith]

Regeting Jesus has nothing to do with believing Jesus is God. It means regecting him as your savior. Thats what I think.

Are you saved?
How do you get saved?

 

[Truman]

Regeting Jesus has nothing to do with believing Jesus is God. It means regecting him as your savior. Thats what I think.

I think you mean rejecting.

 

[Grailhunter]

I wrote a whole post on this. Over a two hundred ways that the Gospels prove that "God" is not three persons in one person.
If you ask a Jew about Yahweh, Yeshua, and the Holy Spirit, they are going to say it is sacrilegious.
If you asked a Pagan back in the biblical era about three gods in one person, they might give you a thumbs up because in there mythology they had gods with three aspects.
In short, if you follow the storyline of the Gospels you will see that Yahweh and Yeshua had separate wills, separate minds, and were in different places as they talked to each other. Christ prayed to His Father and asked questions. Christ made it clear that the Father was greater than He. Christ made it clear that They had different minds, Yahweh knew things that He did not. Christ made it clear that He did not have authority over everything. The designation of Father and Son are two different positions. Yahweh begot Yeshua...He did not begot Himself. There were authorities that Yahweh gave Yeshua, Yahweh did not give Himself authority. Then on the cross Yahweh yelled, My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me? He was not yelling at Himself. The Bible says that Christ has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,

Anytime you see a slogan or phrase that is not in the Bible, it is usually someone trying to get you to believe something that is not true. The word Trinity is not in the Bible.

In the councils they debated the substance of God, LOL like humans could comprehend it. The same thing goes for the unity of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. That accord...that alliance, that association, that Godhead. Do we understand it? Can we comprehend it? That is a discussion that opinions can be expressed...but no resolution reached.

The doctrine of the Trinity came out of the ecumenical councils and was not well received. The Roman Catholic Church went on to force the belief in it, even upon pain of death. A doctrine of Man.

I use the word Trinity but believe in it as a Tri-unity not as Tri-one.
How many reasons why Yahweh, Yeshua, and the Holy Spirit are three Gods.
Grailhunter’s Corner

 

[theefaith]

I wrote a whole post on this. Over a two hundred ways that the Gospels prove that "God" is not there persons in one person.
If you ask a Jew about Yahweh, Yeshua, and the Holy Spirit, they are going to say it is sacrilegious.
If you asked a Pagan back in the biblical era about three gods in one person, they might give you a thumbs up because in there mythology they had gods with three aspects.
In short, if you follow the storyline of the Gospels you will see that Yahweh and Yeshua had separate wills, separate minds, and were in different places as they talked to each other. Christ prayed to His Father and asked questions. Christ made it clear that the Father was greater than He. Christ made it clear that They had different minds, Yahweh knew things that He did not. Christ made it clear that He did not have authority over everything. The designation of Father and Son are two different positions. Yahweh begot Yeshua...He did not begot Himself. There were authorities that Yahweh gave Yeshua, Yahweh did not give Himself authority. Then on the cross Yahweh yelled, My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me? He was not yelling at Himself. The Bible says that Christ has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,

Anytime you see a slogan or phrase that is not in the Bible, it is usually someone trying to get you to believe something that is not true. The word Trinity is not in the Bible.

In the councils they debated the substance of God, LOL like humans could comprehend it. The same thing goes for the unity of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. That accord...that alliance, that association, that Godhead. Do we understand it? Can we comprehend it? That is a discussion that opinions can be expressed...but no resolution reached.

The doctrine of the Trinity came out of the ecumenical councils and was not well received. The Roman Catholic Church went on to force the belief in it, even upon pain of death. A doctrine of Man.

I use the word Trinity but believe in it as a Tri-unity not as Tri-one.
How many reasons why Yahweh, Yeshua, and the Holy Spirit are three Gods.
Grailhunter’s Corner

the holy apostles especially in council have the authority of Jesus Christ!

we don’t believe in three Gods only one God , only one Lord

 

[theefaith]

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself.He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.

Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God of hosts!

 

[Grailhunter]

the holy apostles especially in council have the authority of Jesus Christ!

we don’t believe in three Gods only one God , only one Lord

It depends on your definition of Lord.
Scriptures often do not offer detailed explanations.
Some scriptures have been modified.
But as far as Yeshua's connection and relationship with His Father Yahweh, the Gospels are the best explanation, a storyline of Yeshua and Yahweh and the Holy Spirit in motion and how They interact with each other.