How to get out of : Romans 7

[Behold]

Yes, that makes sense, so it’s my past that still has that hold on my mind....and as you say our mind needs to constantly renewed .....thanks Behold, I appreciate your time that you give, to help to explain everything ,so that I understand.....or maybe that should read, thank you Lord.

Here is the wonder of the Grace of God.

As born again, You are MADE the "righteousness of God in Christ" no matter what.

There are born again people who are delivered from some lust issue, some flesh addiction.... simply by saying "im the righteousness of God, in Christ" while they are doing the carnal deed again.

See, its not by self effort, but by "My Spirit sayeth the Lord" that is our deliverance.

Its by understanding that we are "made righteous" no matter what, that becomes freedom from the flesh.

None of us are good enough to be accepted by God.
Not ever..
But that is not a problem, as God's Son has been offered so that by HIS Life and Death, we are accepted by God, always.

"Grace of God".

Its "Amazing".

 

[Behold]

I dont just believe or hold on to what someone else may teach from the bible

You learned Preterism, based on some teacher that teaches this junk theology.
You even posted their VIDEOS..

So, dont tell people that you dont hold to what other's teach.

Be honest.

Thx.

 

[MatthewG]

freedom of choice, all the best @Behold.


Never good to look down on another brother or sister in my opinion.

I dont care much when in the spirit to be liked or noticed by others but my flesh loves it.

 

[MatthewG]

freedom of choice, all the best @Behold.


Never good to look down on another brother or sister in my opinion.

I dont care much when in the spirit to be liked or noticed by others but my flesh loves it.

This reminds me of the Word of God, when it became flesh, named Jesus. Who made himself of no reputation. Do believe its a principle in the life of those who follow the way of Christ, personally.

Philippians 2
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

[Ritajanice]

I dont just believe or hold on to what someone else may teach from the bible @Ritajanice. I normally go and read the word, I hate condensed versions of truth… the relationship that is had with God is a personally lived one. My sins past, present, future are all forgiven but that doesnt mean God doesnt discipline his children.

Ok fair enough, I check everything out with scripture....I don’t see Behold as someone else, I see the Lord ministering his living word through him....I need that as it takes me a while to understand...

Behold is also a teacher...not sure if you know that.....I also believe he has been called to minister on this forum, he’s doing a grand job imo/ belief......

 

[MatthewG]

Ok fair enough, I check everything out with scripture....I don’t see Behold as someone else, I see the Lord ministering his living word through him....I need that as it takes me a while to understand...

That is good, thankful you have someone that is able to help you out. Thank you for your questions earlier they were good, and it was appericated it. May for you both you continue to have fellowship with the Father and the Son and continue on your spiritually ever growing journey as you go through life putting Yahava first and loving others as yourself, this flesh is weak but the more you foritfy by the spirit it is willingly.

 

[GeneZ]

While that might be true, what we would expect to read from Paul is something like "that was then but now . . ."

The Greek had a way of placing the reader into the picture.... English can leave us without knowing it.

That is why after a point in my walk all those I chose to learn from had to be skilled in the original languages.

If we keep maturing in Christ that day will come for us.

James 3:1. God will provide only a few teachers so qualified.

 

[GeneZ]

I dont just believe or hold on to what someone else may teach from the bible @Ritajanice. I normally go and read the word, I hate condensed versions of truth… the relationship that is had with God is a personally lived one. My sins past, present, future are all forgiven but that doesnt mean God doesnt discipline his children.

No sin can send us to Hell.
In that sense all our sins have been forgiven.

Yet, we are told to walk in the Spirit as commanded.

But, if we sin?

By that sin the Holy Spirit becomes repelled (grieved/quenched).
For He can no longer remain being one with us in our carnality.
In that way we need our sins forgiven, Its to restore fellowship.

grace and peace .........

 

[MatthewG]

No sin can send us to Hell.
In that sense all our sins have been forgiven.

Yet, we are told to walk in the Spirit as commanded.

But, if we sin?

By that sin the Holy Spirit becomes repelled (grieved/quenched).
For He can no longer remain being one with us in our carnality.
In that way we need our sins forgiven, Its to restore fellowship.

grace and peace .........

“Therefore, since we also have such a great cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let’s rid ourselves of every obstacle and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let’s run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking only at Jesus, the originator and perfecter of the faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin; and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, Nor faint when you are punished by Him; For whom the Lord loves He disciplines, And He punishes every son whom He accepts.” It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness. For the moment, all discipline seems not to be pleasant, but painful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterward it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness. Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble, and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is impaired may not be dislocated, but rather be healed. Pursue peace with all people, and the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; that there be no sexually immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. For you know that even afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12‬:‭1‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 12:3-17 For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving a | New American Standard Bible - N

For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. You have not yet resisted...

bible.com

 

[CadyandZoe]

Was reading Eccl, earlier.

16 I [k]said to myself, “Behold, I have magnified and increased wisdom more than all who were over Jerusalem before me; and my [l]mind has observed [m]a wealth of wisdom and knowledge.” 17 And I applied my [n]mind to know wisdom and to know insanity and foolishness; I realized that this also is striving after wind. 18 Because in much wisdom there is much grief; and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain.

Yes, there is rest when one comes to Christ Yeshua, you are right.

I maintain that being blessed by God is like having your teeth cleaned: pain and bleeding up front and afterward clean teeth. I think you know what I mean. Yes?

 

[CadyandZoe]

We come to the Cross as a hell bound sinner, to receive the Grace of God, that is "The Gift of Righteousness".

We come to the cross for the gift of pardon.

= Born again........>"new Creation"......>"in Christ"

Being born again, or born from above is the earnest of our inheritance.

We fall on our knees before God, trusting in Christ and we get up off our knees as "the righteousness of God, in Christ"

You are confusing Justification with Righteousness. We have pardon and sanctification now. Sinless perfection comes at the change. 1 Corinthians 15.

That is not a Sinner.
That is a "new creation".. "Son/Daughter of God"

You are confusing "sinner" with "sinning" We are sinners now who are sanctified by His Spirit and walk in his word. If someone says they have no sin, then they walk in darkness.

 

[MatthewG]

I maintain that being blessed by God is like having your teeth cleaned: pain and bleeding up front and afterward clean teeth. I think you know what I mean. Yes?

There are people who do not believe that suffering for christ is painful. Picking up ones own cross, denying the self, and allowing the Spirit of Christ coming through you, is a suffering experience. However its the hope in which you look forward to in the afterlife to be with Him.

May you continue to ask Yahava to help you, in your life by the spirit and may others here to seek for him, as they look forward to what is not seen which will last forever my friend.

“For our present troubles are small and won’t last very long. Yet they produce for us a glory that vastly outweighs them and will last forever! So we don’t look at the troubles we can see now; rather, we fix our gaze on things that cannot be seen. For the things we see now will soon be gone, but the things we cannot see will last forever.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4‬:‭17‬-‭18‬ ‭NLT‬‬

2 Corinthians 4:17-18 For our present troubles are small and won’t last very long. Yet they produce for us a glory that vastly outweighs them and will last forever! So we don’t look at the troubles we can see now; rather, | New Living Translation (N

For our present troubles are small and won’t last very long. Yet they produce for us a glory that vastly outweighs them and will last forever! So we d...

bible.com

 

[CadyandZoe]

The Greek had a way of placing the reader into the picture.... English can leave us without knowing it.

That is why after a point in my walk all those I chose to learn from had to be skilled in the original languages.

If we keep maturing in Christ that day will come for us.

James 3:1. God will provide only a few teachers so qualified.

What's your point?

 

[Robert Pate]

-
There is a false teaching, that many are involved in, that has Paul "struggling with sin", and its based on misunderstanding and twisting a verse that is taken out of context, by not quoting the very next verse that is the solution.

Many Quote:

Galatians 5:17 to try to teach Romans 7, as "real Christianity".
They never read Galatians 5:18, and that is the context of 5:17 and of Romans 7.

Read them when you have time..

So, there is Romans 7, where Paul is describing Legalism, that wars against the Spirit Man.
"that which i hate i do"....
Paul kept right on teaching, and most Christians, stopped reading once they read..."that which i hate i do, and that which i want to do, i cant'"
Thousand(s) of Poison Pulpits and error filled commentaries teach that verse as if that is "real Christianity"...... And in fact its not at all.
So, Paul kept teaching, and most Christians stopped reading, and have no idea that He was not describing "Christianity".
= He was describing the mental bondage effect of LEGALISM that will war against your Born again Spirit man, inside you, and make you so miserable, that even telling God again for the 100th Time, that you are "sorry i did that again"... is still not making the guilt and condemnation go away.

So, Lets make it go away and stay away.

Reader,

Most of You have not noticed that Paul never confesses sin, in any Epistle, and never tells the Born Again to do this...

The Reason is....

He explains, that a person who is having trouble with their mind..... (where the lust lives)(where the confusion lives), ... this is because they have not renewed their mind so that their sin consciousness becomes this..

A.) "Christ always gives me the Victory".

AA.) "I can do all things through Christ, which STRENGTHENS me'.

See, its the Devil who wants you to believe that Christianity is..."sin... confess... repeat"... or that its..."struggling against sin, and failing again".
Its the devil's ministers who will teach that to you to try to ruin your faith.
Do not listen,
Leave that Church.
Find a real one.

So, "sin, confess, Repeat" and " struggling against sin and failing again."""""" = That's the Devil's lie, and Paul never teaches that.... He teaches the exact Opposite., but you have to read ALL of His Teaching.
You have to do this.... .Paul teaches..."follow ME....as i follow Christ'. (not worship, but follow the TEACHER).

Paul, the "apostle to the gentiles".. "In the time of the Gentiles'.. (and you are in it right now... Reader.)... Teaches that the "old man of sin is Crucified with Christ", and that we are to see HIM DEAD., as our REAL FAITH.
Do you yet?
The Born again, are to understand that we are "made FREE From sin", and "made RIghteous"...and that to """walk in the Spirit, and you will not commit the deeds = works of the Flesh""

Listen..

Paul teaches this...>"Use not your liberty for an occasion to the Flesh".

What does that mean?
It means that when you understand your Salvation, (worked it out)... and how Eternally Free you are from Judgment, and how "made righteous" you are and will always be, by God's "Gift of Righteousness"........ then it can be that you might choose to "have a little too much fun one day".
And what Paul is showing you, is that you are so DELIVERED from Sin Consciousness, that you literally have to choose to go and commit a carnal deed, as there is nothing in you that temps you any more.
See that?
You'll become so "made free from sin" that you can actually test this, and you'll find that whatever it was, that you use to lust to do, is becoming/become nothing to you now.
No attraction... no more desire to do it.

"made free from Sin".
"The Old Man is Crucified with Christ".

Here is the main thing that most believers do not understand, and if you can SEE this, then this will begin your renewed mind that will cause sin consciousness to fade away over time.... right into..."Christ ALWAYS gives me the Victory". .......over the world, the flesh, and the devil.

A.) You have to understand and BELIEVE.... that : """"you are not under the Law, but Under Grace."""

= NO MATTER WHAT.
No Matter What.
This means that what you did wrong recently perhaps ?????? , that the law previously defined as "sin" before you were saved....... is now... "not under the Law but under Grace".
See, its not just YOU that is "under Grace".. Its everything you do, as well.

You are this, if you are born again...

"Made righteous"
"in Christ"
"ONE with God'"
"Temple of the Holy Spirit"
Having Become "The righteousness OF GOD...IN CHRIST".

See, the Born again .. exist '"""IN CHRIST""""...."One with God", and there is no sin found there...

The born again exist HERE :

"As Jesus IS.....so are the born again, in THIS World"...

And when you BELIEVE THIS by revelation, you wont have any "license to sin" issue, as the heretics will teach you.
Not at all.
What will happen is that your heart will be more in Love with God, and your will shall become more dedicated to giving Him all of you.

That's the effect of God's Grace in your mind and heart, once you begin to see yourself as God sees you, = as become "the righteousness of God, in Christ". = THE Renewed MIND.

It appears to me that you are not able to discern the spiritual from the physical. Spiritually we are perfect and complete "In Christ", Colossians 2:10. Physically, because of our relationship with Adam, we are the chief of sinners, 1 Timothy 1:15. As long as we are in these unredeemed Adamic bodies we are sinners, Romans 8:23.

 

[Episkopos]

It appears to me that you are not able to discern the spiritual from the physical. Spiritually we are perfect and complete "In Christ", Colossians 2:10. Physically, because of our relationship with Adam, we are the chief of sinners, 1 Timothy 1:15. As long as we are in these unredeemed Adamic bodies we are sinners, Romans 8:23.

It sounds like you are confusing the limitations of the physical flesh with the grace power over all things by the Spirit.

 

[faithfulness]

It sounds like you are confusing the limitations of the physical flesh with the grace power over all things by the Spirit.

"All grace is all sufficiency in all things".

 

[Behold]

We come to the cross for the gift of pardon.

Its that and its to be born again.

Salvation is 2 parts..

God causes these when we Give God what He requires, which is : repent from unbelief , which is to believe in Christ.
There is a lot of nonsense taught regarding the type of repentance that God accepts..
Many will teach that you repent from your sin...... and the worst of that teaching is....You have to stop sinning and THEN God will save you.

So, when they do that, show them...... "believeth on God who justifies the Un-Godly"...
See the thing about Redemption, is that "Jesus came into the world to save sinners", and we all qualified.
We all go to the Cross as a dirty rotten sinner, .....not as a "God i stopped sinning for about 23 mins now, so...."

No.

God saves us while "we are yet sinners", not because we stopped.

The 2 parts of Salvation..

1.) Forgiveness of Sin. And God does this through the Blood Atonement, FIRST.... as He can't join your spirit with His until your sin is gone.

after it is ...."God hath made Jesus to be SIN for us"... as "Jesus is the one time eternal sacrifice for sin""..

After THAT is applied to us......

THEN, having been made free from sin, God can give us the New Birth of our Spirit into Himself. = Born again by the Holy Spirit of God.

Being born again, or born from above is the earnest of our inheritance.

Well, there is a "conformed into the Image of God' that happens after we die, or when we are raptured and there is more we receive after we are in Heaven...that's true.

However, if we are born again we are already 'IN Christ"..."One with God"... "Seated in Heavenly Places".
WE as born again, are born again INTO the KOG.

The born again are already become this..

"temple of the Holy Spirit"
"IN Christ" "one with God"
Brethren
"Son/Daughter of God"
"Heir of God"
"Joint Heir with Jesus"
"made righteous"
"having become the righteousness of GOD.... In Christ"
"A Saint"
"A Child of the Light"

And much more.....so, you can SEE that this "earnet of our inheritance" is quite a lot, already

You are confusing Justification with Righteousness

That is what Episkopos teaches. He uses info found in the Book of Mormon.
Do you also?

Read 1 Corinthians 1:30

So, we are "Justified by Faith", and we are "made righteous" by receiving the "Gift of Righteousness" from God.

. We have pardon and sanctification now. Sinless perfection comes at the change. 1 Corinthians 15.

Paul teaches that we are to come to the "fullness of the stature of Christ"......now., on earth, before we die.
Not after we "Put on Incorruption".

Paul teaches that "Christ always gives me the Victory".........NOW.. While you are breathing.
Paul teaches that "I can do all things through Christ"......NOW.... While you are breathing.

So, i understand that you are stuck in Romans 7 and Galatians 5:17.
However those are not teaching Christianity, they are teaching what you become when you dont understand what it means to "work out your Salvation".

You are confusing "sinner" with "sinning"

Only a sinner can sin, because only a sinner's deeds are defined by the Law as Sin.

The born again are "not under the Law but under Grace"".. The born again are "in Christ", and there is NO SIN found "IN Christ".

What does that mean? iT means that there is no sin found there, as there is no Law there, only Grace.

Grace defines all the born again as "The righteousness of God in Christ".

We are sinners now

Im not that one.
No true believer, born again as "the righteousness of Christ" is a sinner.

Sinners are unbelievers, who are under the Law.

Christians, are ""Saints", ""Heirs of God"", "Under Grace".... "Sons / Daughters" of God,..... born again, as "the righteousness of God in Christ".

That's not a "sinner".

who are sanctified by His Spirit and walk in his word.

The born again are sanctified by the BLOOD and DEATH of Jesus = FOREVER...., the instant they give God their faith in Christ, and are born again.

We dont "walk in His word"... We "Study it, and we believe it, and we share it". Im currently teaching it.

We walk in the Truth.

"We WALK, in the LIGHT, as Jesus is in the Light".

How?
By being born again as "Children of the Light".

Jesus is the "LIght of the World". and "God exists IN Light"...

If someone says they have no sin, then they walk in darkness.

If a born again believer believes they have their sin, then they have no understanding of the Cross of Christ, The Blood Atonement, the New Covenant, or Salvation by God through Christ.


See, JESUS is this......= "God hath made JESUS>.. to be SIN FOR US">.


So, if you have your sin, as you keep defining yourself..... He does not, and you are not born again, yet.
Once He has it, (Born again).... then you wont have it, ever again.

 

[Behold]

It appears to me that you are not able to discern the spiritual from the physical.

Here is a "head's up" for you.

The Christian, is not the body or the Mind.
The Christian, is the "Son-Daughter of God", , and that is the born again Spirit.

Listen..

You ARE a spirit.
You have a Soul
You LIVE in a body.

Also...See : 1 John 3:9 for a bit of clarity, regarding what you have not learned yet.

 

[friend of]

Can @Behold or anyone address my question in post #69 I'd really appreciate it thanks and God bless

 

[Behold]

I am having trouble with this. OP makes it sound so simple (just ask God to be sinless and He will make you sinless)

Well, I have been asking God to make me sinless. For years. It hasn't happened.

Just last week I sinned. Someone on the street asked me for money. I told them I didn't have any money to give them, but I did, so I lied. I didn't want to take my wallet out in front of him. So I lied with a little bit of fear mixed in. Its not always wise to give people on the street money because they may use it for drugs and alcohol, which came to my mind. I even forgot to offer to buy him something to eat. Yet another sin of lack of hospitality.

What would any of you who claim to be without sin have done if you were in my situation?

Well,

First of all, are you born again? Not water baptized....>Not that nonsense.

BORN AGAIN...... "by my SPIRIT, Sayeth the LORD"..

Do you have that day in your past, that you heard about being a sinner and needing a Savior, who is Jesus The Lord?
And you said....."SAVE ME JESUS"< I BELIEVE"> ??
Do you have anything like that in your past, as that is your 2nd Birth Day..

"Jesus said....> you MUST be... Born.......again"..... That's BD #2, and God causes that one., not water.

So.....If you are born again, then this happened..> 1.) "God hath made Jesus to BE SIN for us"... because.. 2.) "Jesus is the ONE TIME Eternal Sacrifice for sin".

So, there go your sin.
All gone.

"but what about"" ....= "God hath made JESUS TO BE SIN FOR US".... "One time eternal sacrifice for Sin".

"but what if i did it 45 more times today"... = """Jesus is the ONE TIME ETERNAL sacrifice for Sin".

'""Behold, are you saying that 2000 Yrs ago, Christ paid for MY SIN Already?"""

Welcome to Salvation: Its a gift.

How do you like the GRACE of God?

Amazing, isn't it?


Now, you need some teaching, regarding.... "what is sin", "where is sin", "what about sin"... and this is not a one line, 5 second, one post, understanding.

So, just understand one thing until you get into Hebrews 13:9 and stay there.......= Jesus died 2000 yrs ago, and His BLOOD and DEATH is forgiving all SIN, 2000 yrs later., = including Tomorrow.

Specifically, Jesus's sacrifice on the Cross = forgave, all the sin, of the Born again.

2nd Corinthians 5:19

John 3:17

Listen,
Get one thing in your head.. A.) If you are born again, you are FORGIVEN, based in THE Cross, and this is FOREVER.

"but what if i ".. = Forgiven, Jesus died for it 2000 yrs ago, already.

So... being forgiven, .....Its a bit more complex to explain than that simple understanding, but, just keep that one, for now.

= The born again are "made Righteous", forever, by the finished work, of Jesus on the Cross.

"where sin occurs, where sin abounds, GRACE more Abounds"... God's Grace has dealt with it.... 2000 yrs Ago, on the Cross.

"Behold, that does not seem right.....""It does not seem right that im always forgiven"..

But the born again are always forgiven....As that is How God Designed ETENRAL Salvation.
He had to design it so that its based on HIM providing it, or we would have messed it up.
Just ask Adam.
So, God designed HIS Forgiveness and HIS Salvation, to be based <>NOT ON US<>... but based only on the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.

John 14:6

Welcome to : Salvation.

Its a GIFT.