How to get out of : Romans 7

[Behold]

In Romans 7, Paul admits that sin is so deep into the core of his being

Paul teaches that He was "blameless in the Law"...

That's the context of Philippians 3, that is the issue that Paul is explaining as "that which i hate, that i do", as found in Romans 7.

All He is showing us, is that when we try to perform, under the law and commandments, to be righteous, we find that it's impossible, as that is doing it carnally, in the Flesh.
And that is a MIND.... set.

That mind set, that is the "mind of the flesh", that is what Paul explains as "fallen from Grace".... ..the person is trying by willpower to DO righteousness, and Paul describes this in Philippians 3, as "DUNG".

"Dung" as compared to being made Righteous, based on being given "the righteousness of God" "In Christ"... as "The Gift of Salvation".

The reason a believer is stuck in "carnal deed #5688.... confess it again.... repeat it later".... is because they read "that which i hate i will do" and they believe this is the "christian life".

That JUNK, is taught in Churches, to millions.

My Thread explains that this is not Paul teaching you to do that....
Its him showing us what its like when we dont understand The Grace of God.... the "crucified old man" or what it means to walk in the Spirit.

See, for hundreds of years, heretics who are carnal, and read the bible like its a phone book, took....:

"that which i hate i do"
"chief of sinners"
"if we say we have no sin"

Mainly those 3, and denied all that God's Grace actually provides for us as "made righteous"....."Christ always gives me the Victory">.."I can do all things through Christ" that is the REAL Christianity, and the REAL Faith that Paul teaches.

 

[CadyandZoe]

"shall not be a master over you".

Of course, that's what I said. The question is "whom do you serve?"

Because sin lives in the Old man that is Crucified with Christ.

Paul didn't say that he crucified the old man. You are mixing up his statements.

The sin principle, is the adamic nature, that is the "old man of Sin".

Paul admits that the law of sin exists in his members. He never denies that.

See, SIN, can only be found, "under the Law", as the Law defines it.
The Born again are 'not under the law, but under Grace". So, when you define yourself as a sinner, then you are defining yourself as not being "in Christ", and "not being under Grace".

Paul was in Christ and he not only defined himself as a sinner but he admitted himself as being evil.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Paul teaches that He was "blameless in the Law"...

Sure. But in Romans 7, he admits himself to be a sinner, that he is evil to his core, and that he wishes to be set free from his body of death.

The reason a believer is stuck in "carnal deed #5688.... confess it again.... repeat it later".... is because they read "that which i hate i will do" and they believe this is the "christian life".

Well, the idea is wrong.

That JUNK, is taught in Churches, to people like you and millions of others.

Not to people like me. Speak for yourself.

My Thread explains that this is not Paul teaching you to do that....

Okay, then why create a thread concerning Romans 7 instead of Romans 6 where Paul exhorts his readers to present their members in service of righteousness rather than in service to sin? Isn't that what you want to say?

Its him showing us what its like when we dont understand The Grace of God.... the "crucified old man" or what it means to walk in the Spirit.

You are talking about Romans 6. Why not go with that?

Romans 6:
5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

Did you catch that? Here Paul is comparing a current reality -- united with him in the likeness of his death, with a future reality -- shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection. When are we united with him in the likeness of his resurrection? At the Last Trumpet when we shall all be changed. The change is a future hope.

 

[Ritajanice]

@Behold , what do you think of this commentary?

Paul highlighted the human struggle we experience. He knew that even those with God’s Spirit still had human nature and have to resist the selfish pulls of the flesh while seeking to obey God’s law. Paul summed up this struggle when he wrote: “I love God’s law with all my heart. But there is another power within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death?” (Romans 7:22-24, NLT).

He gives the answer in what immediately follows in verse 25: “Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin” (Romans 7:25, NLT). Continuing on in chapter 8 he says: “So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death” (Romans 8:1-2, NLT).

 

[Behold]

Sure. But in Romans 7, he admits himself to be a sinner, that he is evil to his core, and that he wishes to be set free from his body of death.

No Christian is a sinner., and that is because its the Law that defines you as a sinner..

The Born again are "not under the Law"< but under Grace'.

Okay, then why create a thread concerning Romans 7 instead of Romans 6 where Paul exhorts his readers to present their members in service of righteousness rather than in service to sin? Isn't that what you want to say?

There is no sin "In Christ", and all the Born again are "in Christ".
There is no sin found in the Kingdom of God, and all the born again are born again into the KOG.

Based on the Atonement, that is The Cross of Christ, the believer is given a New Birth= in the Spirit that joins them eternally with God.
"One with God".. "In Christ"
You can't have sin, and be that one.

Christians, according to the Devil, are sinners.
According to Paul, they are "made righteousness", "Born again", as a New Creation".

You are talking about Romans 6. Why not go with that?

in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

The reason the born again is "made free from sin", is because we are "dead to the Law" and our "old man of sin, is crucified with Christ"
There is the "freedom from sin".
Christ has redeemed the born again FROM THEIR SIN.....
Its gone.
He has it.......as "God hath made Jesus to be sin...for us"" as... "Jesus is the one time eternal sacrifice for sin".

The born again, don't have sin, they only have "The righteousness of God in Christ".
Otherwise, they's still be unsaved and not born again.

Did you catch that? Here Paul is comparing a current reality -- united with him in the likeness of his death, with a future reality -- shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection.

The Born again, is/are already "one with God" "seated in Heavenly Places" "in Christ".

You can't be there and be a sinner., as Paul teaches.

But others who dont understand what it means to have become "the righteousness of God in Christ", will teach that you shall sin.

It could be that what you are not understanding is that its the Born Again Spirit, that is the "Son/Daughter" of God.
That is not your mind or your body.
SO....If, your understanding of "Christian" is.... "how i think i am" right now....., then of course you'll see yourself as the carnal mind THINKS, unless its renewed.

When the mind is renewed, then the believer's understanding of "in Christ", agrees with Paul.

We are "made righteous". 'In Christ".

Salvation : "is the Gift of Righteousness".

That is to have become a CHRISTian...born again.

 

[CadyandZoe]

This, CadyandZoe, is why it is so important to stick close to the scriptures and learn and grow in knowledge though it causes grief and also increases the pain of knowing the reality that is of 'fact' truth. That is why everyone should consider every man a liar and seek and search for truth themselves. There are people that can become deluded and have their mind more based on a fleshly way, rather than the spiritual way and things tend to get mixed up in the confusion. There are those who will take in the considerable information, and those who reject it and only desire their own premise, without allowing change and only desiring praise by others or take pride in their own selves.

"though it causes grief"

Interesting you should put it that way. I do grieve at my own suffering but also the suffering of my fellow countrymen. (and women) But we are promised rest also. Rest from our struggles and rest from our efforts, disappointments, and frustrations.

 

[CadyandZoe]

No Christian is a sinner., and that is because its the Law that defines you as a sinner..

The Born again are "not under the Law"< but under Grace'.

If we weren't sinners, we wouldn't need grace.

There is no sin "In Christ", and all the Born again are "in Christ".

Those "in Christ" aren't Christ.

There is no sin found in the Kingdom of God, and all the born again are born again into the KOG.

The born again are walking in the light and those walking in the light confess themselves to be sinners.

Based on the Atonement, that is The Cross of Christ, the believer is given a New Birth= in the Spirit that joins them eternally with God.
"One with God".. "In Christ"
You can't have sin, and be that one.

You are confusing status with condition. Reconciliation and pardon allow a sinner to have fellowship with God. Those who say they have no sin, have no fellowship with God.

Christians, according to the Devil, are sinners.
According to Paul, they are "made righteousness", "Born again", as a New Creation".

To be "made righteous" is to have been pardoned by God. It doesn't mean that we have been fashioned into morally perfect agents. The change comes at the Final Trumpet

The reason the born again is "made free from sin", is because we are "dead to the Law" and our "old man of sin, is crucified with Christ"

You are using "Christian" language but without knowledge. This is why we return to the passages to see what the author meant to say.

 

[MatthewG]

"though it causes grief"

Interesting you should put it that way. I do grieve at my own suffering but also the suffering of my fellow countrymen. (and women) But we are promised rest also. Rest from our struggles and rest from our efforts, disappointments, and frustrations.

Was reading Eccl, earlier.

16 I [k]said to myself, “Behold, I have magnified and increased wisdom more than all who were over Jerusalem before me; and my [l]mind has observed [m]a wealth of wisdom and knowledge.” 17 And I applied my [n]mind to know wisdom and to know insanity and foolishness; I realized that this also is striving after wind. 18 Because in much wisdom there is much grief; and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain.

Yes, there is rest when one comes to Christ Yeshua, you are right.

 

[Behold]

If we weren't sinners, we wouldn't need grace.

We come to the Cross as a hell bound sinner, to receive the Grace of God, that is "The Gift of Righteousness".

We come to the Cross, .. We come to God by Faith in Christ, and God takes that faith, and give us His Righteousness, as "the Gift of Righteousness".

= Born again........>"new Creation"......>"in Christ"

This BELIEVER just stopped being a sinner, having received God's righteousness, as a "gift".

= Salvation.

We fall on our knees before God, trusting in Christ and we get up off our knees as "the righteousness of God, in Christ"

That is not a Sinner.
That is a "new creation".. "Son/Daughter of God"

Those "in Christ" aren't Christ.

KJ21
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the Day of Judgment; because as He (Christ) is, so are we in this world.
ASV
Herein is love made perfect with us, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as he (Christ) is, even so are we in this world.
AMP
In this [union and fellowship with Him], love is completed and perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment [with assurance and boldness to face Him]; because as He (Christ) is, so are we in this world.
AMPC
In this [union and communion with Him] love is brought to completion and attains perfection with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment [with assurance and boldness to face Him], because as He (Christ) is, so are we in this world.
BRG
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
CSB
In this, love is made complete with us so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment, because as HE (Christ) is, so also are we in this world.

"As JESUS IS....so are the born again in THIS World"..

right now.

So, is Christ a sinner?
Not quite.

The born again are walking in the light and those walking in the light confess themselves to be sinners.

You confess that you are a sinner.
I dont confess anything but this truth.

A.) "i am the righteousness of God in Christ".

Why?
Because the born again "new Creation In Christ is not a "sinner"
A sinner is an unbeliever "under the law".
The born again, are "not under the Law, but under Grace"

You are confusing status with condition. Reconciliation and pardon allow a sinner to have fellowship with God. Those who say they have no sin, have no fellowship with God.

Those who say they have sin, have it., and if you have sin, then Jesus has not died for your sin yet.

So, this person is not born again.

If you are born again, then Jesus has died for your sin, He has it.. .as = "God hath made Jesus TO BE SIN...for us'.

So, if Jesus has your sin, then you are saved//forgiven.
If you have it, then you are lost, not saved, not born again, and are not going to heaven.
Heaven does not allow sin or sinners in it.
It only allows those who are born again, into it, and they are "made righteous".

To be "made righteous" is to have been pardoned by GoD.

To be made righteous is to not have any sin, but its more then that... Its to have become in union with God's Spirit.
"Born....again".
You can't have sin and be righteous.
And...."confessing sin" does not make you righteous, it only makes your guilt go away for a little while.

"What can wash away my sin? = Nothing but the Blood of Jesus".

If it has, then you go to heaven.
If not, you dont.

You are using "Christian" language but without knowledge. This is why we return to the passages to see what the author meant to say.

I teach Pauline Theology.
If you know any of this, then you'd hear me.
So, until you renew your mind of faith with Paul's Doctrine, then you'll continue to believe that you have your sin.

 

[MatthewG]

@Behold , what do you think of this commentary?

Paul highlighted the human struggle we experience. He knew that even those with God’s Spirit still had human nature and have to resist the selfish pulls of the flesh while seeking to obey God’s law. Paul summed up this struggle when he wrote: “I love God’s law with all my heart. But there is another power within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death?” (Romans 7:22-24, NLT).

He gives the answer in what immediately follows in verse 25: “Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin” (Romans 7:25, NLT). Continuing on in chapter 8 he says: “So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death” (Romans 8:1-2, NLT).

To me, it is great to look at and consider all these passages and others throughout the Bible. It is all choice to abide in the flesh of self (and to give into the temptations, which happens sometimes,) or to abide in the Messiah.

James

 

[Ritajanice]

You confess that you are a sinner.
I dont confess anything but this truth.

A.) "i am the righteousness of God in Christ".

Why?
Because the born again "new Creation In Christ is not a "sinner"
A sinner is an unbeliever "under the law".
The born again, are "not under the Law, but under Grace"

Hi Behold, I know that my sins were forgiven by God, when he birthed me in the Spirit.

My question to you is.....I did something that was very wrong about a week ago, as soon as I’d done it I knew it was wrong, I said to God I was sorry and felt terrible after I had done it, I then asked him how I could make it right,..well, he made a way that I:could rectify the wrong I had done......it was a lesson ,a hard one at that , I learnt so much from it and would NEVER do it again.

Was that a sin or was that the weakness of my flesh?

 

[Ritajanice]

To me, it is great to look at and consider all these passages and others throughout the Bible. It is all choice to abide in the flesh of self (and to give into the temptations, which happens sometimes,) or to abide in the Messiah.

I understand what you are saying, yet we aren’t in the realms of the flesh ,were in the realms of the Spirit, as we have been birthed in the Spirit haven’t we?

I think at the beginning of our walk the flesh wars with the Spirit, but, because we are in God’s realm and have the indwelling Holy Spirit, he is our helper and as we die to self daily, we are being made into the image of Christ by the power of the Spirit,..were a child of God and the Holy Spirit is working within us....

◄ Romans 8:9 ►

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. New Living Translation But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.) English Standard Version You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him

 

[Behold]

Hi Behold, I know that my sins were forgiven by God, when he birthed me in the Spirit.

My question to you is.....I did something that was very wrong about a week ago, as soon as I’d done it I knew it was wrong, I said to God I was sorry and felt terrible after I had done it, I then asked him how I could make it right,..well, he made a way that I:could rectify the wrong I had done......it was a lesson ,a hard one at that , I learnt so much from it and would NEVER do it again.

Was that a sin or was that the weakness of my flesh?

It is a work of the flesh.... nothing more.

God does not remember it.
Neither should you, worry about it.

It has no bearing on your born again relationship with God., not while you did it, or today, or tomorrow.

Notice this verse. = The born again are "not under the Law , but Under Grace"..

That means that the Law has no power to define your deed as a sin........ever again.

"where there is no Law, there is no sin no Transgression" as defined by the Law.

A.) To be "under Grace" means that you and what you do, are always "under Grace"

Here is an analogy....

The ARK of Noah... Noah's Ark... was SALVATION from that Water of God's Judgement.... that was killing everything with breath, right outside the Ark.
Noah and family and animals were SAVED, because they were IN THE ARK..... protected from the JUDGMENT that was happing outside the Ark.

So, if they fall in the Ark, if they mess up, in the ARK, they are still IN THE ARK.. still SAVED, even if they fall.

See that ?

Well, the CROSS of CHRIST is our Eternal Blood of Jesus = ARK. = "in Christ".
Its our place of forgiveness, that is eternal.
Its the Blood and Death of Jesus that has paid for sin, and pays for sin....
Consider that Jesus's Blood and Death has paid for the sin of the world...so, surely it can deal with one of us.....always.
So, when we behave less then the "standard", .. if we have a carnal moment,.....,. then we had it in the ARK, covered by the Blood Atonement.
We "fell" we "messed up">...within the safety of God's Eternal Salvation....always.

 

[Ritajanice]

It is a work of the flesh.... nothing more.

God does not remember it.
Neither should you, worry about it.

It has no bearing on your born again relationship with God., not while you did it, or today, or tomorrow.

Notice this verse. = The born again are "not under the Law , but Under Grace"..

That means that the Law has no power to define your deed as a sin........ever again.

"where there is no Law, there is no sin no Transgression" as defined by the Law.

A.) To be "under Grace" means that you and what you do, are always "under Grace"

Yes, that makes sense, so it’s my past that still has that hold on my mind....and as you say our mind needs to constantly renewed .....thanks Behold, I appreciate your time that you give, to help to explain everything ,so that I understand.....or maybe that should read, thank you Lord.

 

[MatthewG]

I understand what you are saying, yet we aren’t in the realms of the flesh ,were in the realms of the Spirit, as we have been birthed in the Spirit haven’t we?

I think at the beginning of our walk the flesh wars with the Spirit, but, because we are in God’s realm and have the indwelling Holy Spirit, he is our helper and as we die to self daily, we are being made into the image of Christ by the power of the Spirit,..were a child of God and the Holy Spirit is working within us....

​

◄ Romans 8:9 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. New Living Translation But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.) English Standard Version You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him

Only if you are abiding in Christ. The flesh and the Spirit until the day we die fight against each other in my prospect, they are constantly fighting.

Therefore every day it is a choice, to rely on the fleshly way or the spiritual way.

Sometimes I slip up and use porn... I the feeling of guilt is there, and me and Yahava talk about it... and he understands and he continues to work with me... it is my choice of doing though and no one else is at fault but me. It's not something that is not already made known to God.

It's like when you 'have that discipline' of doing wrong to another, by the spirit - it was the sin in your flesh at fault but inwardly if you know Yahava is right, you know his laws, and his ways, and his Son are right.

 

[Ritajanice]

To me, it is great to look at and consider all these passages and others throughout the Bible. It is all choice to abide in the flesh of self (and to give into the temptations, which happens sometimes,) or to abide in the Messiah.

James

View attachment 36509

Thanks for posting these verses of scripture Mathew....I do understand a lot of what you say also.

 

[Ritajanice]

Only if you are abiding in Christ. The flesh and the Spirit until the day we die fight against each other in my prospect, they are constantly fighting.

Therefore every day it is a choice, to rely on the fleshly way or the spiritual way.

Sometimes I slip up and use porn... I the feeling of guilt is there, and me and Yahava talk about it... and he understands and he continues to work with me... it is my choice of doing though and no one else is at fault but me. It's not something that is not already made known to God.

It's like when you 'have that discipline' of doing wrong to another, by the spirit - it was the sin in your flesh at fault but inwardly if you know Yahava is right, you know his laws, and his ways, and his Son are right.

View attachment 36510

Hi Mathew...I think Behold explains it really well....when I asked him about the wrong I did...check it out.

 

[Behold]

To me, it is great to look at and consider all these passages and others throughout the Bible. It is all choice to abide in the flesh of self (and to give into the temptations, which happens sometimes,) or to abide in the Messiah.

God does not join us to Himself, because we promised to be good, later....

He joined us to Himself because of the finished work of Jesus on the Cross, that happened 2000 ys ago.

So, when we are saved, born again, we become a part of the Eternal Family of God.

This was not caused by our behavior, and it can't be ended by our behavior, or how we think about it later.

A way to understand "abiding in God, in Christ"... is ...

You have a mother. And You are her son, or daughter....(depending on the Reader)... and you are born of her.
Did you cause this?
Can you stop it?
Can you end it?

So, when we are Born of God.....
We didn't cause it.
We can't stop it.
It can't be ended.

See, Salvation, is to be BORN.......again... and that is a Spiritual Birth that is GOD CAUSED, and you can't end it, just like you didnt cause it.

You will always be the CHILD of your mother, by BIRTH.
You will always be the Son/Daughter of God, by Spiritual Birth.

Imagine how crazy it is, to tell your mother.....>"i am not born of you anymore"

That is the same as believing that Salvation can be lost....

Its Not possible to stop being BORN.

 

[Ritajanice]

It is a work of the flesh.... nothing more.

God does not remember it.
Neither should you, worry about it.

It has no bearing on your born again relationship with God., not while you did it, or today, or tomorrow.

Notice this verse. = The born again are "not under the Law , but Under Grace"..

That means that the Law has no power to define your deed as a sin........ever again.

"where there is no Law, there is no sin no Transgression" as defined by the Law.

A.) To be "under Grace" means that you and what you do, are always "under Grace"

Here is an analogy....

The ARK of Noah... Noah's Ark... was SALVATION from that Water of God's Judgement.... that was killing everything with breath, right outside the Ark.
Noah and family and animals were SAVED, because they were IN THE ARK..... protected from the JUDGMENT that was happing outside the Ark.

So, if they fall in the Ark, if they mess up, in the ARK, they are still IN THE ARK.. still SAVED, even if they fall.

See that ?

Well, the CROSS of CHRIST is our Eternal Blood of Jesus = ARK. = "in Christ".
Its our place of forgiveness, that is eternal.
Its the Blood and Death of Jesus that has paid for sin, and pays for sin....
Consider that Jesus's Blood and Death has paid for the sin of the world...so, surely it can deal with one of us.....always.
So, when we behave less then the "standard", .. if we have a carnal moment,.....,. then we had it in the ARK, covered by the Blood Atonement.
We "fell" we "messed up">...within the safety of God's Eternal Salvation....always.

Here it is @MatthewG ....hope it helps you as it has me.

 

[MatthewG]

I dont just believe or hold on to what someone else may teach from the bible @Ritajanice. I normally go and read the word, I hate condensed versions of truth… the relationship that is had with God is a personally lived one. My sins past, present, future are all forgiven but that doesnt mean God doesnt discipline his children.