amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
And all the true apostles would have warned out against the CC . COME YE OUT THEE FAITH , Fore its too late .
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Ferris Bueller...
You are twisting James, his verses, into your religious idea of : "to keep your salvation, you must do THIS and THAT, and dont forget the others".
Listen Reader...
When you read James...... He talks about "dead faith".
This is not DEAD SALVATION, as FAITH is not your Savior. So, DEAD FAITH, is when you are cold to the love of God, and you know it, most of you, as what it means to be : "backslidden".
This is behavior that is related to the carnal mind that is in full control of the believer.
They are born again...... however its their SPIRIT that is BORN AGAIN, not their mind or body. It the SPIRIT that is always BORN AGAIN, = "One With God".
The born again SPIRIT is the "new Creation in Christ".
Also, Ferris Bueller states... "works validate you as being converted"..
So, when does GOD not know your HEART, and the inside of your MIND, so that He needs to see your behavior, or He's confused as to whether you believe in CHRIST, and He SAVED YOU?
Listen, GOD KNOWS YOUR THOUGHTS.....>He does not need you to validate your Salvation by your church membership and by no longer being a drunk, ok?
He looks inside you and KNOWS WHAT YOU ARE............. see it?
God is the One who validated you as his SON/Daughter, not your silly works and church membership and water baptism.
So, James the Apostle, is talking about :: "i will show YOU YOU YOU My FAITH"...
See that?
He does not need to show GOD, as God sees inside this Apostle.
So, the """I will show YOU my Faith"""", is James telling YOU< that you prove your discipleship and faith in front of others, as they are LOOKING FOR YOUR FRUIT.....Your good works......AS THEY KNOW YOU BY IT..
See that?
God Looks at your HEART.........People look at your behavior.
So, when someone like Ferris Bueller has no idea about this, and is trying to teach that works are required for you to stay saved, then understand that the only Work that God requires for you to go to His Glory, is the finished work of Jesus on the Cross that HE has given to you, as= "the Gift of Salvation".
Do you have it?
Is Christ in you?
Then you are born again and you are already in heaven "seated in heavenly places IN CHRIST".
All you are waiting for is your NEW BODY......as Jesus has taken care of the rest, already.
Listen.....
God never accepts your work to accept you...He only accepts HIS OWN CROSS, as that is GOD as Christ on that Cross sacrificing his body and blood for you.
God only accepts what HE has provided on the Cross, to accept you.
So....NEVER EVER try to get God to save you or keep you saved, based on your deeds, as then you are competing against GOD's Cross and Jesus's Sacrifice, as is your works are as WORTHY....!!
Never do that.
Never think to do that.
Never listen to anyone who tries to get you do that.
so you cannot reject the teaching of these witnesses!
and the go to ends of the world! Hence apostolic succession cos the new world was not accessible till 15th century!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
No, you aren't understanding what I'm saying. This has NOTHING to do with works making you born again or keeping you born again. It has everything to do with works validating whether you are really born again in the first place. Listen up, folks. No works, no change, no conversion means you have not been born again. You just think you have been born again. And probably because some well meaning but misguided preacher told you that since you are not saved on the merit of your works (which is true) then you don't have to obey God to be saved when Jesus returns (not true). Oblivious to the plain Biblical truth that your disobedient, unchanged, unconverted life shows you are not born again. So this has NOTHING to do with works making or keeping you saved. You just keep hearing it that way because you have an unreasonable emotional bias that instantly evokes thoughts of works salvation at the mere mention of the word 'works'. Slow down, take a deep breath and actually read with understanding what I'm saying. Works VALIDATE you as being born again. They do not MAKE or KEEP you born again.
there is a difference between the kingdom of God on earth and the kingdom of heaven!
born again means baptismal regeneration! Jn 3:5 vs 22 they went to the river to preach “accept Jesus as your savior”
NO!!!!!!!!!
They went to the river (water water everywhere) to baptize!
A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!
As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!
without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!
Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!
Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!
They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “
They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22
A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!
Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.
Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.
1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.
Baptism!
God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!
Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2
Born again! Born from above!
'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,
Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!
Effects of baptism!
Faith and baptism accomplish justification
With these effects:
born again Jn 3:5
New creation in Christ 2 cor 5:17
Passed from death to life 2 Tim 1:10
Out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light 1 pet 2:9
All sins (original and personal) washed away acts 22:16
Washed in Christ’s blood 1 pet 1:2
Member of Christ and His church
1 cor 12:13
Put on Christ gal 3:27
Died with Christ rom 6:3
Risen with Christ col 2:12
Sealed by God in the ark of salvation 1 pet 3:20-21
Sealed with the Holy Spirit eph 1:13
And none by “faith alone”!
Ez 36:25-27
Jn 3:5
Mk 16:16
Acts 2:38
Acts 8:36-38
Acts 22:16
1 cor 12:13
Gal 3:27
2 Tim 1:10
2 cor 5:17
Eph 1:13
Titus 3:5
1 pet 2:9
1 pet 3:20-21
“Faith alone”
Questions
where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?
1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?
Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?
Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is not found in scripture?
They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???
When we first believed we are saved?
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Yes.... God coming into a person, changes their conscience, and generally their entire perspective.
Discipleship, that follows Salvation, should be clearly seen.
But, this can take time to develop.
Old habits, will often try to take control.
But realize that Satan's minions, the DECEIVED, preach : "i can lose my salvation, and so can you".
Why?
Because they have no faith in Christ as their Salvation.
They probably dont even understand AT ALL, what i just said.
So, if i write..
Jesus is Salvation.
Jesus is Eternal Life
Jesus is the Blood Atonement
Jesus is the Grace of God
Jesus is the Resurrection
Jesus is the only way to heaven.
They will think...>"but over there in James".......and, In Hebrews it says..."sin willfully".
See that? That is a fakir, or that is a truly deceived believer, immersed in LEGALISM.... mind blinded by the DEVIL = who can only think of Salvation in terms of..>"what do i do". "how do i not lose it"..
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Bob Carabbio
Well-Known Member
And the reason is that probably 90% of what the church, and Christians CALL "FAITH" (Heb 11:1) isn't FAITH AT ALL - it's just religious mental assent.
SO you believe in "Salvation by WORKS" - i.e. it's UP TO YOU to "Do enough to merit salvation".
"OSAS" is nothing more than "just another theology".
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Believing is not among the works that can not justify. The Bible contrasts faith in God's forgiveness (a.k.a 'believing') with performing righteous works to be made right with God. They are clearly delineated one from the other in the Bible. But so many Christians think that since 'believing' is something you 'do' it also must be included in the works that Paul says can not justify, and so the reasoning goes that if you have to believe and continue to believe to be saved you believe in a works gospel. But that theology is easily proven false where he contrasts believing with works, not equates them:
"...the one who does not work, but believes" Romans 4:5
Having faith is the very thing you are to do to be justified. It is not a work to merit salvation. And so it is wrong to think that doing the 'work' of believing in order to be saved and stay saved is a works gospel.
I don’t think it’s possible to comprehend either the immense holiness of God or the infinite grace & merits of the
Sacrifice of Christ!
Nor are we as finite beings capable of complete or proper thanksgiving!
God is infinite goodness, and mercy, and Love!
Sacrifice of Christ!
Nor are we as finite beings capable of complete or proper thanksgiving!
God is infinite goodness, and mercy, and Love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Let's be clear. It is a nothing more than just another meaningless theology. Either way, for or against it, it does not change the fact that one must believe and continue to believe in order to be saved from the wrath of God when Christ returns. Believing is not a work of merit. It is the very thing you must do, and continue to do in order to be saved. Arguing about whether or not one can or can not stop believing does not change that fact.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Apparently, 90% of the church believes that faith doesn't have to convert you in order for it to be considered genuine, saving faith. That's a problem. It's causing Christians who aren't really converted to think they are. They will be hay, wood, and stubble at the judgment, and the builder who labored in the building of God with that erroneous gospel will lose his reward. His work will be burned up in the judgment.
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Bob Carabbio
Well-Known Member
BINGO!! Although the "Works of the lost" won't be tested at the Judgement seat of Christ- since they'll never get there. Imagine the Catholics who wind up in Purgatory to be "purified", and shortly find out it's HELL, and they'll never get out.
Again, you are teaching "continue to believe" as how to be saved.
In other words, you are teaching that holding on to faith, saves you, and losing faith, damns you.
That is Cross rejecting, Legalism, you are preaching, again.
You never can say that Jesus saves you, ... as you can only say that your faith saves you, if you keep it.
That's Legalism.
Ferris Bueller,
Noone should believe that "faith converts you" as you teach, as that is something you do., and you can't convert yourself, Ferris Bueller.
You can only give your Faith to the one who CONVERTS you, who redeems you, and who SAVES you by giving you the NEW BIRTH.
Do you think you will ever write a post in you life where you dont give credit to your faith and your self effort, and instead give Credit to God and Christ for Salvation?
Ive never seen you write one SENTENCE that does this..
Would you like to give it a try, as that would be something new for you to post.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Everybody knows that having faith simply results in the transforming power of the Holy Spirit. And so we refer to it as being saved and changed by faith.
AceWestfall08
Active Member
Seems to me this is a thread about belief with the motive of living forever. Like the cost to live forever is to just simply Believe. I think people miss the actual point. The point is not about living forever. Its about having a relationship with the Father that doesnt end. Death itself can't stop the relationship. Jesus proved that on the cross. So if you believe for the sake of being saved, and a relationship doesnt develop i consider you a Fish. Fish swim in schools, flock to the teaching they are most comfortable with, or that suits their innermost feelings or personality.
A sheep grazes on the Scripture like grass. Fish are hooked by it.
"I will make you fishers of men"
Tell me which do you think the Father prefers? Somebody who actually wants a relationship in this life. Or somebody who learns the doctrine and believes for the sake of living forever and being "saved".
A sheep grazes on the Scripture like grass. Fish are hooked by it.
"I will make you fishers of men"
Tell me which do you think the Father prefers? Somebody who actually wants a relationship in this life. Or somebody who learns the doctrine and believes for the sake of living forever and being "saved".
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Everybody knows without the gift of faith, given to a person by God, you couldn't trust and believe your way out of a wet paper bag. The only reason you can know that the gospel is true is because God enabled you to see that it really is true. That's what makes salvation a gracious gift.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Really? In all my 17+ years of being on the internet in Christian forums? You just haven't been paying attention.
Yes.
And then heretics leave that truth and come on forums and lie to real believers and tell them that if they lose their faith, they lost their salvation, which actually means they stop being born again.
You would understand this type of heresy, better than most, Ferris Bueller.
