How to go to Hell. Pt 1

[Behold]

Really? In all my 17+ years of being on the internet in Christian forums? You just haven't been paying attention.

Ive always responded to your legalism., if i see it, and that is everytime you are on own one of my Threads preaching it.

Remember?
You are the person that can lose your salvation if you dont hold on to your Savior = FAITH.

Did you want to rant about that a bit more today, or are you good till another time?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Do you think you will ever write a post in you life where you dont give credit to your faith and your self effort, and instead give Credit to God and Christ for Salvation?

I see you are not familiar with scripture that says it is not a boast to have faith:

"27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of works? No, but on that of faith. " Romans 3:27​

 

[AceWestfall08]

I didn't fully believe in my heart until i had a vision, where a man that was my father told me that he was gabriel in his body and then rose his hand and a spiritual liquid was poured over me, and a floating head popped into existence and said "Thomas, i swear by my great name. You are mine!".
What this has done to me, was give me a faith that I can't get rid of even if i tried. Whenever i have serious thoughts about God not existing, or hearing my thoughts, that vision rears its "not so ugly" head and says "Boom! I exist". I cant deny my faith even if i wanted to.
Scripture doesnt do that for me. If a person believe 100% on scripture alone and it works for them, I say good for them. But for me, an ACTUAL relationship is what I crave.

So instead of fighting over if works appear if somebody believes. Why don't you consider each person's personal attitude towards God, and realize its unique to each person. For the person who believes, but has no works to show for it. God doesnt mean that much to them. That doesnt mean they hate God and deserve death/hell/whatever it is. For others, God means so much more to them, so they have works they do expressing some of that. For others, God is something personal to them, and their works are more of a private nature to them.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

In other words, you are teaching that holding on to faith, saves you, and losing faith, damns you.

Like a boat. You either stay in it and live, or get out and drown. Faith puts you in the safety of the boat. And it is by that same faith that you stay in the boat. This is not rocket science. Whether or not a genuine believer can exit the boat in unbelief doesn't change the fact that you must be in the boat when Jesus comes back to be saved from the wrath of God when Jesus comes back. No argument for or against the ability to stop believing changes that truth. But you and so many others will choose to focus on the meaningless argument of whether you can stop believing or not instead of on what actually matters - the necessity to hold fast to the gospel word in faith in order to be saved. I suspect you don't even know where in the Bible it exhorts us to hold fast to the gospel message by which we were saved.

 

[Behold]

I see you are not familiar with scripture that says it is not a boast to have faith:

Geez.
You have no idea what that verse says.
That verse is saying that boasting is EXCLUDED.............that the idea of a person wanting to BOAST about their own righteousness, is what is EXCLUDED, because God's Salvation denies this..........as God's salvation is based on FAITH.

So, what you do, is exactly says you are not to do. You are not to talk about what you are doing to stay saved, which is all you do, for over 15 yrs on "forums".
​

 

[Behold]

So instead of fighting over if works appear if somebody believes. Why don't you consider each person's personal attitude towards God, and realize its unique to each person.

The issue with Ferris's Theology, isn't his point about works following salvation, as the "fruit bearing" that is the evidence of being born again.
But rather he is a person who does not Trust in Christ to KEEP HIM SAVED.
He is a Legalist, and that is a person who does not believe BELIEVE that Salvation is finished, and is a GIFT.....but rather he believes that its started by Christ and if he holds unto his faith and does his works and deeds, then he keeps himself saved.
And that is exactly NOT Trusting in Christ., as you can't truly trust in Christ if you dont TRUST and BELIEVE that CHRIST, and not YOURSELF, keeps you saved.

And that is why he will dodge that fact, and avoid admitting it, during long and redundant self righteous rants about "holding unto your faith to stay saved".

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That is Cross rejecting, Legalism, you are preaching, again.

The necessity to believe in the cross is legalism? That's funny. I don't know what Bible you read but mine says that in the matter of justification believing is in stark contrast to legalistic works of righteous, not equated with them. Somehow believing in Christ got put on the side of legalistic works in your strange gospel. I know it's not your fault. We have buffoons like Andrew Farley to blame for that. But it is your fault for perpetuating such an insane gospel.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You never can say that Jesus saves you, ... as you can only say that your faith saves you, if you keep it.
That's Legalism.

You're grasping. As I've said, faith is the conduit through which the blood of Christ is applied to a person:

"...we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we stand." Romans 5:1-2
​

See it? Faith is the conduit through which we gain access to the grace of Christ's Ministry and Sacrifice for forgiveness. No faith means no conduit through which the efficacy of Christ's intercessory ministry (Hebrews 7:25) can come to you. The person with no faith is cutoff from Christ. They are lost. They are not born again. They will go to the left and into the fire if they remain that way to the very end. They are the proverbial useless, barren, thorny field that gets burned in the end (Hebrews 6:8). They don't have the things that accompany salvation (Hebrews 6:9), because they don't have the power of the Holy Spirit in salvation to produce those things.

 

[AceWestfall08]

John 5:37-40 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

When you come to Jesus, Or the spirit, or the Father. Or whatever it is. It is with the attitude of friendship and good atmosphere. You can usually tell how a person truly feels about Jesus by how they talk. How they present themselves. What tone they pick. An aggressive tone might show a person's desire to want to be right and are just afraid of being wrong. Meaning they want justification and have doubts. A fear-mongerer usually feels prideful and believes they are getting saved and has a certain satisfaction at seeing others in a troubled state. Its about being apart of the "haves" instead of the "have nots".

Look at a person's tone, and it will tell you volumes.

A person who has came to Jesus, would speak about him in a way as a friend. They would present him as friendly. Instead of arguing over whether a person is saved or not b/c of works.

 

[AceWestfall08]

The Parable of the Sower
13 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”

10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’

16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

 

[Behold]

The necessity to believe in the cross is legalism?

I was wondering when you would try to pretend that you talk about the Cross.
I had mentioned it earlier, and here you are, right on "cue".
Aren't you glad you found me? As now you can say that you have actually mentioned it on a fourm.
I could post your last 100 posts that dont talk about the Cross, but do endlessly talk about "faith and works", but, i know that you'll do it for us in your next 100 posts.

 

[AceWestfall08]

Does a sacrifice become invalid because you don't believe in it" Maybe the sacrifice of Jesus was to take away the sins of mankind. Which in and itself is enough. The added requirement of belief seems to belittle the sacrifice. Like he only sacrificed himself for certain individuals instead of everybody.

Hard questions....

 

[Behold]

A person who has came to Jesus, would speak about him in a way as a friend. They would present him as friendly.

My Thread presented Jesus as the only way to God.
Is that "friendly" enough?
From there, its been about 10 pages of 2 people who have contradicted the Cross....so, are they "friendly"?

Also, when Jesus took a whip and stuck the Pharisees with it, in the Temple in Jerusalem, was Jesus "friendly" enough for you then, ACEWESTFALL08?

And, when Jesus told the Pharisees, that "you are of your father the devil",....was he being friendly enough to suit you?

How about Paul, in Galatians talking about Legalist, and saying he would have them "cursed of God".
Its that friendly enough for you, ACEWESTFALL08?

I'll give you some advice.
Dont worry much about "tone"... only concern yourself with TRUTH.
Seek Truth and Wisdom, and God will give you more.

 

[Behold]

The added requirement of belief seems to belittle the sacrifice....

Its an insult to the Grace of God to say that the offer of God's Son for your filthy sins, "belittles the Sacrifice".

It actually doesn't, it only proves the extreme love of God, that He has for you.

 

[AceWestfall08]

My Thread presented Jesus as the only way to God.
Is that "friendly" enough?
From there, its been about 10 pages of 2 people who have contradicted the Cross....so, are they "friendly"?

Also, when Jesus took a whip and stuck the Pharisees with it, in the Temple in Jerusalem, was Jesus "friendly" enough for you then, ACEWESTFALL08?

And, when Jesus told the Pharisees, that "you are of your father the devil",....was he being friendly enough to suit you?

How about Paul, in Galatians talking about Legalist, and saying he would have them "cursed of God".
Its that friendly enough for you, ACEWESTFALL08?

I'll give you some advice.
Dont worry much about "tone"... only concern yourself with TRUTH.
Seek Truth and Wisdom, and God will give you more.

Tell me about your ONGOING relationship with God/Jesus/Spirit. Without reciting scripture. You are describing to me what you have researched. There is a clear difference between Reading and learning about him, and actually have him in your life guiding you. If your vision of him is based on what you read in scriptures. I pity you.

 

[AceWestfall08]

Its an insult to the Grace of God to say that the offer of God's Son for your filthy sins, "belittles the Sacrifice".

It actually doesn't, it only proves the extreme love of God, that He has for you.

Thats my point. Do you think God will void his sacrifice for you, just because you don't believe the sacrificed happened or have you doubts, but you believe in God.

My biggest problem with Christianity is the REQUIRED belief that Jesus died to save you to have a relationship with God. I tend to think that the actual event is enough without you personally having to believe it or in it.

The fact that the sacrifice happened is why we are able to have a relationship. Take Jesus out of the equation, but not his sacrifice.....is that sufficient.

Maybe the Spirit I communicate with, and the one that opens my mind, the one that comforts me is Jesus. Truly IDK. The floating head never did tell me his name, just that it was "great".

 

[Behold]

Tell me about your ONGOING relationship with God/Jesus/Spirit. Without reciting scripture. You are describing to me what you have researched. There is a clear difference between Reading and learning about him, and actually have him in your life guiding you. If your vision of him is based on what you read in scriptures. I pity you.

My Relationship with God?
Personal, and devoted.
He bought me with the Blood of Jesus, and lives in me forever.
I make an effort to make choices with God in mind.

 

[AceWestfall08]

And what would you say to somebody to who God means dearly too. Like he is my only emotional support in my life for the last decade. God I have no doubts. I can't bring myself to get behind "Jesus". I'm like the doubting Thomas. I have seen a floating head, that gave me an oath by his name...I can't erase that.

What makes you TRUST the bible. To trust what you have learned from it is ACTUALLY from God or God inspired.
I"m not attacking your faith. I'm trying to gain a deeper insight on how the vine was pruned.
One person will say you are blessed by god. Another person will say you do good things and have a passion for message and it brings you deep fulfillment to do that.

Again i don't deny God. I can't. I have my doubts on Jesus and Christianity. I've read the Bible. and the apocrypha. And the books of enoch. And the book of mormon. And all the Gnostic texts. I've done homework.

Its kinda what I do...Homework...i have nothing but time on my hands in my life. No close relationships.

 

[Behold]

T

My biggest problem with Christianity is the REQUIRED belief that Jesus died to save you to have a relationship with God. I tend to think that the actual event is enough without you personally having to believe it or in it.
.

You are on a Christian forum, saying that you can't accept that God requires you to trust in Christ to have a relationship with you.

Listen... that is CHRIST on The Cross, that you are saying you should not have to believe in, personally,


Read my recent Thread..

Go here...

How to understand : Salvation

 

[AceWestfall08]

Ok, let me ask you this. How do you feel about the people in the past that came after Jesus, but did not hear the gospel. The native americans for example. I'm sure there are some of those people who did not hear the gospel but wanted a relationship with God. They did not believe or accept salvation, but they were honest in their hearts. Are they saved? Is the sacrifice for those people as well? But because they didn't hear about Jesus, they don't get the opportunity? Thats my problem. Its a philosophical question.