How to handle heretics?

[BarneyFife]

You can never say why you believe that JW’s are a cult Enoch......nor do you ever have answers to the questions posed to you. What if it is you who have followed the teachings of an ancient cult? How would you know? Do you think the people who protest their innocence at the judgment imagine for one moment that they are not true Christians? They acknowledge Jesus as their “Lord”....but....
Matthew 7:21-23...
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (KJV)

Imagine being on the receiving end of that rejection....?

How can these be so deceived? Weren’t they doing all the things they said? How then are they then unrecognisable as Jesus’ disciples......how are they ‘workers of iniquity’?


Be careful where you place your trust.....in a world ruled by the devil, all that appears to be truth....isn’t. (1 John 5:19)

Hi, Aunty!

In the scope of things, the word "cult" is obsolete. It's a bigoted epithet. The only ones who don't know that are the bigots, themselves.

 

[BarneyFife]

He was quite harsh with the Pharisees:

“Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” (Matthew 23:33)

People get away with that here all the time. The admins are very patient and kind, as well.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

There sure is.
It could be worse.
You could be a Seventh-day Adventist.
So quit yer belly-achin'.

Or a Mormon

 

[BarneyFife]

ever wonder why you see so few reformed folk on here? Theres a reason.

There sure is.
It could be worse.
You could be a Seventh-day Adventist.
So quit yer belly-achin'.

Or a Latter-day Saint!!
Aw, what am I sayin'; Jane don't sweat nothin'.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Hello lifelong,

Unless there is an agreed upon arbiter i dont see how this question can be reaolved..
Are you suggesting yourself as arbiter?

Pax et Bonun

no. Clearly no one read post #13 where i explained the purpose of this thread.

 

[BarneyFife]

no. Clearly no one read post #13 where i explained the purpose of this thread.

Do i think its ok to “correct” wrong theology? Yes, but not at the expense of anothers salvation unless its a primary doctrine of our faith.

Well, that narrows it down to about 999 things we can argue about.

Everything is someone's primary doctrine.

How do you correct "wrong theology" at the expense of another's salvation?

You're a good chap for trying to make peace, though.

You get Azure type today.

 

[Philip James]

no. Clearly no one read post #13 where i explained the purpose of this thread.

I did indeed. And saw this slipped in there:

Baptism isnt a primary issue of salvation,

And who are you to assert such when for 2000 years your brothers and sisters have asserted that baptism is the gate to the Kingdom of God..

Pax et Bonum

 

[BarneyFife]

And who are you to assert such when for 2000 years your brothers and sisters have asserted that baptism is the gate to the Kingdom of God..

Pax et Bonum

@Lifelong_sinner, See what I mean?

 

[Cassandra]

ever wonder why you see so few reformed folk on here? Theres a reason.

interesting, since you may have noticed that there arent many reformed folk on here. I think i have seen about 5 other reformed on here. Truth is, this place has a bit of a bad reputation on some reformed forums, as being a place to avoid. It would seem that we think the same of you, as you do of us.

If there aren't many reformed here, it's no one's fault but theirs. One is given a platform here--whether one chooses to use it is their own option. No one is stopping anyone reformed from getting an account here.
And who gives a whit whether this forum has a bad rep on other forums? Are we supposed to don sackcloth and ashes, crawl up some steps, and beat ourselves with a stick screaming "Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa"?

You guys don't want to come here to proselytize, that's on you.

 

[GEN2REV]

Honestly, I think Jesus would be banned from every internet forum.

They all do their best to keep Him out. They don't ban Him as quickly here, but they do their level best to silence Him daily.

ETA: Jesus that is.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Well, i attempted to be nice and forgiving. Got me nowhere. So, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Well, i attempted to be nice and forgiving. Got me nowhere. So, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

I actually really liked your thoughtful posts in this thread. I’m sorry you feel that they didn’t yield anything.

 

[Aunty Jane]

It is better to be wrong in doctrine but be humble and fear the Lord. Nowhere does it say that God gives grace to the doctrinally accurate. Much of Western Christendom is based on accuracy of beliefs. Can you say "the emperor's new clothes?"

1 Corinthians 8:3...
"But if anyone loves God, this one is known by him".

John 6:44; 65....
"No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day.". . . . "He went on to say: “This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

With just these two passages of scripture, it is easy to fill in the blanks. God loves those who truly love him....and that love is demonstrated by what we accept as truth in our hearts. If no one can come to the Father without his invitation, then those who accept what is not truth and demonstrate a tenacious obsession to hang on to what is not clearly stated in the scriptures concerning many issues....these will never receive an invitation from the Father in the first place.

Paul told the disciple, Timothy... (2 Timothy 2:14-19)....."Keep reminding them of these things, instructing them before God not to fight about words, something of no usefulness at all because it harms those listening. 15 Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God, a workman with nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of the truth aright. 16 But reject empty speeches that violate what is holy, for they will lead to more and more ungodliness, 17and their word will spread like gangrene."
He then mentions two individuals named Hy·me·naeʹus and Phi·leʹtus, who it seems, were very influential and persuasive in their deviations from the truth concerning the resurrection....since their word 'spread like gangrene', it apparently didn't take long for these deviations to occur, "subverting the faith of some".....even whilst the apostles were still alive.

Those who kept to the teachings of the apostles didn't deviate from what they taught. But those who were swayed to believe those who wanted to introduce their own ideas, became part of the "weeds" of counterfeit Christianity that Jesus himself and his apostles, warned about. He identified the devil as the sower of this false Christianity.(Matthew 13:24-30; 36-42)

Now this next verse highlights something else that is part of that apostasy from the truth....

From the NIV...."19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

"The Lord" here is ambiguous in other translations ......which "Lord" is referred to here?
The Lord Yahweh (Jehovah)...or the Lord Jesus Christ? Are they one and the same "Lord"?

Here is that same scripture from the NWT.....
"19 Despite that, the solid foundation of God remains standing, having this seal, “Jehovah knows those who belong to him,” and, “Let everyone calling on the name of Jehovah renounce unrighteousness.” (NWT)
I have quoted from the NWT here because it clearly identifies which "Lord" is spoken about by referring to the OT scripture that Paul was quoting. (Numbers 16:5; Joel 2:32)

When the Jews refrained from using the divine name (and did so under no instruction from God) a confusion occurred when the Lord Jesus Christ made his appearance. Many assume that "LORD" (Adonai) was another way of saying "God", when in actual fact, it is a form of respectful address. A "Lord" in Bible times was someone who was considered of a higher station than yourself. It was the English equivalent of calling someone "Sir".

But for some reason, the Greek "kyrios" came to mean that "the Lord" Jesus Christ was the same as The Lord "Adonai" (Yahweh/Jehovah). In fact many here tell me that Jesus is Yahweh. Yet, the Bible does not say that...not even once.

In verse 19 Paul is quoting OT scripture, which in Hebrew contains the divine name, but in the Greek scriptures the Jewish tradition was followed instead. The nameless "LORD" in the Christian scriptures got mixed up with the "Lord" Jesus Christ....and the trinity was born.

In the Bible, "Baal" actually means "Lord". The Baals were named after their location such as the one mentioned in Numbers 25:3 which tells us that “Israel attached itself to the Baal of Peor; and the anger of Jehovah began to blaze against Israel.” Then, Jehovah commanded Moses to execute “all the head ones of the people.”

The Muslims call their god "Allah" which also means "Lord". So unless you address the one true God by his name, a title will not suffice.

Heresy is then 'in the eye of the beholder'......unless you know what the OT scriptures teach, the NT will just be confusing when it speaks about "the Lord" and translates "kyrios" as if it is always Jesus.......it isn't.

 

[Aunty Jane]

He was quite harsh with the Pharisees:

“Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” (Matthew 23:33)

What was Jesus telling them? Certainly nothing like what the KJV translates as "the damnation of hell". There is no such thing.

According to Strongs, "damnation" is the Greek word "krisis" meaning....

1. "a separating, sundering, separation
   
   
   1. a trial, contest
2. selection
3. judgment"

The word for "Hell" is "Gehenna" and this was referring to the Valley of Hinnom, which was Jerusalem's garbage dump outside the city walls where they burned up the rubbish or anything else that needed disposal....including the carcasses of dead animals and the bodies of executed criminals who were considered unworthy of a decent burial, which was so important to faithful Jews.

Fires were kept burning day and night to consume the rubbish and what the flames missed the maggots finished off. This is what came to symbolize Christendom's "hellfire"....but nothing alive was ever cast there. "Gehenna" is not "Hades". Using a Bible that does not differentiate is misleading and causes confusion. God has no need or desire to punish anyone for eternity. Eternal death is enough......simply withdrawing the gift of life.

Strongs concludes by saying that it was "a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction."
You see souls are "destroyed" in gehenna, not tormented. (Matthew 10:28)

This is eternal death, which in the Bible is contrasted with eternal life.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Aunty Jane put Strong’s resources away.

“Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?” (Ecclesiastes 7:16)

So how much of the Bible have you changed so far with Strong’s?

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Aunty Jane put Strong’s resources away.

Why would I do that?

It is recognized as one of the best Bible study aids available for Bible students.
It never lets me down which is why I choose to use it. I have learned so much about original language words....you should try it.
That antiquated Bible you use is letting you down.

“Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?” (Ecclesiastes 7:16)

Oh good grief!

....what dost thou thinkest that you doest?
I am really going to listen to you rather than such a widely accepted resource....? SMH.

So how much of the Bible have you changed so far with Strong’s?

How much have you accepted as truth without it...? Perhaps you should do some Bible study and research....
.....you might actually learn something....

 

[Lambano]

ever wonder why you see so few reformed folk on here? Theres a reason.

There sure is.
It could be worse.
You could be a Seventh-day Adventist.
So quit yer belly-achin'.

Or a Mormon

Or a Latter-day Saint!!
Aw, what am I sayin'; Jane don't sweat nothin'.

Or a Methodist. And we know why they're not so popular on Christian internet forums these days, don't we?

KLF was sponsored by a Reformed ministry, so there was a much higher percentage of Calvinists on that one. LLS, you would've loved it. I remember one guy asking me about my beliefs, saying "I've never actually met a real Arminian before", like I was a Unicorn in the zoo or something.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

What is KLF??

 

[Lambano]

What is KLF??

It was a forum sponsored by Key Life Ministries. The ministry itself is still around (and I think you'd like it), but they disbanded the forum years ago.

 

[Bob Estey]

This forum has a ton of bad theology, some heretical, some not. My question is, how should heretics be handled?

Here's what we do: Everyone who disagrees with me will be labeled a heretic, and I will track them down, wherever they live, and scold them.