How to understand... The Lamb's book of life

[Taken]

When you are born, you are IN.....your name is found IN the Lambs book of life.

Disagree.

When you are born again, your name is still in there....

Still? -Disagree.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Timtofly]

So, are you saying that #1 may still be saved? I would say unequivocally, no.

Show me where #1's name was removed. If you say it was never there, what is the point on receiving the message at all? A full Calvinist will claim they cannot even receive the message. This parable says they do, but it never takes root. #1 can still accept and have no fruit at all. You cannot say with unequivocal honesty that God sends a seed, and it returns void. Meaning that person dies in his own sin, just because you say so.

 

[Earburner]

Apparently you are into surmising...and putting things together incorrectly. You should just say you can't see what I'm saying. Just as you don't understand everything in the bible.

Christ in you is the HOPE of glory...but not the guarantee of glory. Some will go astray, some will be offended and others will not bear the right kind of fruit...remaining carnal.

It is as we abide IN Christ that we put on the wedding robes.

So you aren't making the distinction between Christ in you...as many have been so called....and you abiding IN Christ which few will ever do. The way is narrow and FEW are they who find it. Why? Because of assumptions and putting together verses incorrectly to make false assumptions.
We are to be called, chosen AND faithful. So the way is not so easy as many might expect.

The guests are many....but the Bride are few. Many are called, few are chosen.

And my point is, for all who DO HAVE the Gift of His Holy Spirit, it is by Him living within us, that we are chosen, aka the Bride, "sealed unto the Day of redemption".

 

[Episkopos]

And my point is, for all who DO HAVE the Gift of His Holy Spirit, it is by Him living within us, that we are chosen, aka the Bride, "sealed unto the Day of redemption".

Not at all. You would have to know the difference between...Christ IN you and Christ being FORMED in you.

There is a world of difference between these. MANY are called but FEW are chosen. So then many have the HOPE of glory but few attain to glory. Many have Christ in them as a template...but few have been hammered into the likeness of Christ. That form is Christ that we are to be made into the image of. Like a key being copied from a master key. The key of David.

Think of it as a mold. Christ in you is a mold that you need to suffer and die into...to be hammered into shape the way a blacksmith hammers iron into a pre-existing mold shape.

But this process is very hard. Most can't endure it...especially if they think it's unnecessary. And that's where a sound doctrine comes into play. If you KNOW you need to be conformed to Christ inwardly...then you will endure the chastening and training of the Lord. Otherwise you will resist the Spirit.

 

[Earburner]

Not at all. You would have to know the difference between...Christ IN you and Christ being FORMED in you.

There is a world of difference between these. MANY are called but FEW are chosen. So then many have the HOPE of glory but few attain to glory. Many have Christ in them as a template...but few have been hammered into the likeness of Christ. That form is Christ that we are to be made into the image of. Like a key being copied from a master key. The key of David.

Think of it as a mold. Christ in you is a mold that you need to suffer and die into...to be hammered into shape the way a blacksmith hammers iron into a pre-existing mold shape.

But this process is very hard. Most can't endure it...especially if they think it's unnecessary. And that's where a sound doctrine comes into play. If you KNOW you need to be conformed to Christ inwardly...then you will endure the chastening and training of the Lord. Otherwise you will resist the Spirit.

So, if one builds upon the foundation of Christ our Savior, and it all comes to nothing, you believe that they are unchosen?

The thief on the cross, who built nothing, would have an argument with you!
1 Cor. 3[11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
[12] Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
[13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

That thief obeyed the gospel, and did perform the work of God!
John 6[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[Episkopos]

So, if one builds upon the foundation of Christ our Savior, and it all comes to nothing, you believe that they are unchosen?

The thief on the cross, who built nothing, would have an argument with you!
1 Cor. 3[11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
[12] Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
[13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

That thief obeyed the gospel, and did perform the work of God!
John 6[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

You are seeing things backwards. Believing INTO Jesus is a work of God...not a human work. The thief had his own faith...not the faith OF Christ. So again you are failing to make distinctions...but just making an omelette of everything thus obscuring the truth of it.

And this is no yoke!

 

[Timtofly]

And my point is, for all who DO HAVE the Gift of His Holy Spirit, it is by Him living within us, that we are chosen, aka the Bride, "sealed unto the Day of redemption".

We use this term, "Day of Redemption", but do will truly know what it says?

It is both a single day in history, and at any point in one's individual life.

Being sealed by the Holy Spirit does not happen on the Day of Redemption.

It clearly states "until the day".

Sorry for those who do not want to see this.

There is only one point in any individual's life where they are sealed. It is both when their name was put into the Lamb's book of life at the beginning of creation and when a human is conceived in the womb physically. No ifs, ands, or objections.

The Day of Redemption was when Jesus died on the Cross. That act is worked out in our lives, when we finally turn from ourselves and accept Jesus' Atonement as the only means of our salvation.

 

[Joseph77]

Disagree.
Still? -Disagree.

Might be right or wrong - the important matters might be other stuff.

 

[marks]

When you are born, you are IN.....your name is found IN the Lambs book of life.

When you are born again, your name is still in there....

Hi Behold,

Agreed!

God told Moses, the soul that sins I shall blot from My book. Names are removed, not added.

In Revelation, all will worship the beast who's names are not written in the book of life of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


Something to notice here . . .

What is translated "has been written" is from a Perfect Tense verb, which is to say, it was written, and remains written permanently.

So this is describing those who's names did not stay written in the Lamb's book of life.

"from the foundation of the world"

While this is often used to describe the Lamb slain "from the foundation of the world", the clause can grammatically belong to either "written in the book of life" or "the Lamb slain". And as with all such ambiguities, we can look to parallel passages to clarify the matter.


Here we see the same construction, Perfect Tense for "remains written", but in this instance "of the Lamb slain" is not used. Here we read, of whom not remains written the names on the scroll of life from the foundation of the world.

So we can know where the phrase belongs.

They will worship the beast, those who's names do not remain written from the foundation of the world in the Lamb slain's book of life.

So then, why are names not blotted out? As in everything, the answer is in justification and a new creation.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The book of life. (The obedient to the basic principles of Christ...like the meek)
The book of remembrance (the righteous)
The Lamb's book of life. (saints)

Why do you think that there are two "books of life"? Can you point to the Scriptures that tell us what each is?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Most believers...if they are fortunate...will be guests at the wedding feast (not the Bride).A very few will actually be the Bride so as to rule with Christ forever over the saved of the nations. (they who are scarcely saved by being written in the book of life)

This really does not align with the Biblical doctrine of justification and rebirth.

We need to understand that the bride that God marries is Israel, and not the gentile church.

Much love!

 

[marks]

LOL. I think you are assuming I'm doing what you are doing! I am taught on a whole other level that you would obviously not understand.

I think he's trying to figure out where you get your ideas from. Condesending comments aside . . .

 

[marks]

Parable of the seed sower.

Could you show me from that parable how this is so? Where does it speak of someone being written in or blotted out from God's book?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Christ in you is the HOPE of glory...but not the guarantee of glory.

Actually Biblical "hope" from elpis is not wistful like the American version of hope, rather, well, God has a hope also (Rom 8), and it's not wistful either.

When God speaks of hope, it's with the certainty that He has. And He knows.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Some will go astray, some will be offended and others will not bear the right kind of fruit...remaining carnal.

Curious . . . do you mean, remaining carnal, is in, unregenerate? Or remaining carnal, as in, acting in a fleshy way?

Much love!

 

[marks]

But this process is very hard. Most can't endure it...especially if they think it's unnecessary. And that's where a sound doctrine comes into play.

This is a good point! The process can be very difficult for some! Sound doctrine is to know that as God's children these difficulties mean He treats us as children, and notice,

He chastens us for our good.

It's effective. It works. It may be difficult, but it works. Not His child? Your troubles will push you away from God. But true doctrine is that for the believer, tribulation DOES produce endurance, and endurance DOES produce experience, and esperience DOES produce hope, that is, the end result of our faith.

I find Biblical hope to be poorly understood by many.

An easy way to understand what the Bible means by hope in looking at the resurrection. Jesus tells us that He is the resurrection, and that believing in Him we will live, even though we die. Since we believe Him, we believe we will live, even though we die, that we will be raised to life in Him.

So we have as our hope the resurrection from the dead, not as in, I really want it to happen to me, rather, I believe Him to be true, and that's what He said He's going to do, so I know that's what's coming.

I will be raised from the dead. God said it, I believe it, so this is my hope.

Tribulations build hope in the believer.

Much love!

 

[DNB]

Show me where #1's name was removed. If you say it was never there, what is the point on receiving the message at all? A full Calvinist will claim they cannot even receive the message. This parable says they do, but it never takes root. #1 can still accept and have no fruit at all. You cannot say with unequivocal honesty that God sends a seed, and it returns void. Meaning that person dies in his own sin, just because you say so.

I don't accept your premise, entirely, that all names are in the Book of Life, from the outset. To me, these Books that God and the prophets reference, are metaphors to denote one's ascription into salvation. God's infinite knowledge, wisdom and foresight, does not require any type of ledger or record keeper. There are neither any books in heaven, nor shelves nor filing cabinets, ...besides, if He needed to record anything, he'd probably use a laptop or tablet (facetious, you get my point).
So, I don't predicate my argument, based on there being a tangible record of all humans ever created, for one. And two, that as time goes on, names are erased, crossed-out, wite-out, scribbled over, pasted on top of, etc.. in order for God to reference at a later time. (facetious, you get the point).
I do not believe in 'once saved, always saved', or the majority of Reformed Theology, if that clarifies anything?

 

[DNB]

This is actually true. I'm surprised that a binary fundamentalist can see that.

I was surprised myself, glad you said it!

 

[DNB]

Could you show me from that parable how this is so? Where does it speak of someone being written in or blotted out from God's book?

Much love!

The Books are figurative, they do not exist by necessity. I'm pasting my previous post to timtofly.

'...To me, these Books that God and prophets reference, are metaphors to denote one's ascription into salvation. God's infinite knowledge, wisdom and foresight, does not require any type of ledger or record keeper. There are neither any books in heaven, nor shelves nor filing cabinets, ...besides, if He needed to record anything, he'd probably use a laptop or tablet (facetious, you get my point).
So, I don't predicate my argument, based on there being a tangible record of all humans ever created, for one. And two, that as time goes on, names are erased, crossed-out, wite-out, scribbled over, pasted on top of, etc.. in order for God to reference at a later time. (facetious, you get the point)....'

So, my point was simply that, first, I believe that people can lose their salvation, as depicted in the parable of the seeds & sower, so figuratively speaking, their names were once in the BOL, then removed. That was the rationale behind my brief, initial comment.

 

[Timtofly]

I don't accept your premise, entirely, that all names are in the Book of Life, from the outset. To me, these Books that God and the prophets reference, are metaphors to denote one's ascription into salvation. God's infinite knowledge, wisdom and foresight, does not require any type of ledger or record keeper. There are neither any books in heaven, nor shelves nor filing cabinets, ...besides, if He needed to record anything, he'd probably use a laptop or tablet (facetious, you get my point).
So, I don't predicate my argument, based on there being a tangible record of all humans ever created, for one. And two, that as time goes on, names are erased, crossed-out, wite-out, scribbled over, pasted on top of, etc.. in order for God to reference at a later time. (facetious, you get the point).
I do not believe in 'once saved, always saved', or the majority of Reformed Theology, if that clarifies anything?

How about once lost, always lost?

The reason that there is a Lamb's book of life is because God says there is, and God knows that you do not agree.