How to understand... The Lamb's book of life

[DNB]

How about once lost, always lost?

The reason that there is a Lamb's book of life is because God says there is, and God knows that you do not agree.

When was the last time that you saw a lamb read a book, or own a library? C'mon, they can barely speak. Besides, have you ever seen a lamb around paper products, or specifically a book, they'll chew it to pieces, seriously.

 

[Timtofly]

When was the last time that you saw a lamb read a book, or own a library? C'mon, they can barely speak. Besides, have you ever seen a lamb around paper products, or specifically a book, they'll chew it pieces, seriously.

You really do not know who the Lamb is?

 

[DNB]

You really do not know who the Lamb is?

You really can't recognize sarcasm?
BTW, you said, 'once lost, always lost', I guess that you were referring to me?
But, if so, doesn't that contradict your entire thesis, that there was a time when all humans had their names written in the Book of Life?
You can't support both principles, without undermining one position or the other?

 

[Timtofly]

You really can't recognize sarcasm?
BTW, you said, 'once lost, always lost', I guess that you were referring to me?
But, if so, doesn't that contradict your entire thesis, that there was a time when all humans had their names written in the Book of Life?
You can't support both principles, without undermining one position or the other?

Not lost from the start, silly.

All start out sealed. Then once some one is lost, they cannot get back in; lost.

 

[marks]

The Books are figurative, they do not exist by necessity. I'm pasting my previous post to timtofly.

'...To me, these Books that God and prophets reference, are metaphors to denote one's ascription into salvation. God's infinite knowledge, wisdom and foresight, does not require any type of ledger or record keeper. There are neither any books in heaven, nor shelves nor filing cabinets, ...besides, if He needed to record anything, he'd probably use a laptop or tablet (facetious, you get my point).
So, I don't predicate my argument, based on there being a tangible record of all humans ever created, for one. And two, that as time goes on, names are erased, crossed-out, wite-out, scribbled over, pasted on top of, etc.. in order for God to reference at a later time. (facetious, you get the point)....'

So, my point was simply that, first, I believe that people can lose their salvation, as depicted in the parable of the seeds & sower, so figuratively speaking, their names were once in the BOL, then removed. That was the rationale behind my brief, initial comment.

OK,

The Books are figurative, they do not exist by necessity. I'm pasting my previous post to timtofly.

'...To me, these Books that God and prophets reference, are metaphors to denote one's ascription into salvation. God's infinite knowledge, wisdom and foresight, does not require any type of ledger or record keeper. There are neither any books in heaven, nor shelves nor filing cabinets, ...besides, if He needed to record anything, he'd probably use a laptop or tablet (facetious, you get my point).
So, I don't predicate my argument, based on there being a tangible record of all humans ever created, for one. And two, that as time goes on, names are erased, crossed-out, wite-out, scribbled over, pasted on top of, etc.. in order for God to reference at a later time. (facetious, you get the point)....'

So, my point was simply that, first, I believe that people can lose their salvation, as depicted in the parable of the seeds & sower, so figuratively speaking, their names were once in the BOL, then removed. That was the rationale behind my brief, initial comment.

Thank you for your explanation. I quite agree with you that books aren't needed by God. And I think I understand why you see the books as metaphors, probably better than seeing them as write 'n' wipe pages.

But I do think that He uses them anyway.

He doesn't need a throne to sit in, but I think we will see Him in one. He doesn't need the form of Jesus to come to us, but He chose to do that. He could have created us spirits in a spirit realm to begin with, but He created us embodied beings in a place we can touch.

He made us in a way that we like books. We're created in His image, and the Bible says that He has books written. He had the Bible written when He could have just dropped the knowledge into our minds.

I don't know. I think that God has books. Interesting thing to think about!



Much love!

 

[DPMartin]

The Cross disqualifies you from trying to keep yourself saved. If you come to this revelation, you will stop trying to do it.

And let me show you how that "lamb's book of life" works out, so that you can get rid of lying commentaries and lying teachers.....

When you are born, you are IN.....your name is found IN the Lambs book of life.

When you are born again, your name is still in there....

If you die a "Lamb" rejector......a Christ Rejector, then your name WILL NOT BE FOUND IN THE LAMB" BOOK of "eternal Life". As Jesus is the Lamb, and He Himself is Eternal lite, and if you are born again, then because Jesus who is "the resurrection and the (eternal) LIFE"< is IN YOU....so that is why you have it.

If you dont have Him in you, if you are a Christ Rejector, then you will die, hit Revelation 20:11, and your name will not be IN THERE (not found in the Lamb's BOOK"...< as by rejecting the LAMB while you are alive, your Christ rejectiong name is REMOVED the instant you die.

No name in that book, = CHRIST (Lamb) REJECTOR.

Welcome to the Lake of Fire, for all those who by rejecting the LAMB, end up there.

just incase anyone needs to know this is rubbish.

 

[Taken]

Might be right or wrong - the important matters might be other stuff.

Thank you,
Taken

 

[DNB]

Not lost from the start, silly.

All start out sealed. Then once some one is lost, they cannot get back in; lost.

oh, you're right, I read too much into it.
But you're entirely wrong, silly!
No one is saved until they confess Christ. No one starts off life confessing their sins, or are even aware of repentance and salvation.
Whoever told you that all names are in the Book from their birth, is egregiously mistaken.

Now, we need to address something serious, you are deriving an entire doctrine based on your inferences. You are speculating almost all of you assertions, except for the fact that God keeps records of the saved & unsaved. All the rest is just conjecture on your part.

 

[DNB]

OK,


Thank you for your explanation. I quite agree with you that books aren't needed by God. And I think I understand why you see the books as metaphors, probably better than seeing them as write 'n' wipe pages.

But I do think that He uses them anyway.

He doesn't need a throne to sit in, but I think we will see Him in one. He doesn't need the form of Jesus to come to us, but He chose to do that. He could have created us spirits in a spirit realm to begin with, but He created us embodied beings in a place we can touch.

He made us in a way that we like books. We're created in His image, and the Bible says that He has books written. He had the Bible written when He could have just dropped the knowledge into our minds.

I don't know. I think that God has books. Interesting thing to think about!



Much love!

Yes, marks, your points are valid, that ultimately, I am not dismissing the fact.
It was just watching the posters try to develop a whole theology based on such scant information, that also, as you saw, could fundamentally be undermined, making me antagonistic to the notion.
I agree with you on a casual level, but would never be dogmatic about it as the other posters are. And, for the reasons that I established, I would not even predicate it, in order to prove a related point.

 

[Timtofly]

oh, you're right, I read too much into it.
But you're entirely wrong, silly!
No one is saved until they confess Christ. No one starts off life confessing their sins, or are even aware of repentance and salvation.
Whoever told you that all names are in the Book from their birth, is egregiously mistaken.

Now, we need to address something serious, you are deriving an entire doctrine based on your inferences. You are speculation almost all of you assertions, except for the fact that God keeps records of the saved & unsaved. All the rest is just conjecture on your part.

No one is saved until they get to heaven, by that logic. Really, so all humans were born before creation? Whom is conjecturing who?

 

[Paul Christensen]

Because God lives outside of time, He sees the past, present and future all at once. This is not to say that He determines the future, unless He has indicated what is going to happen through the OT prophets. If He says beforehand what is going to happen, then He organises things so that they will happen. But He does not interfere with individual choice, because He did not create a race of programmable robots. If He did interfere with individual choice, then He would be unjust in sending anyone to hell, because they would rightly say, "God made me do it", and duress is a valid defence.

God, because He is all-knowing, foreknew who was going to accept the invitation to receive salvation, either through the Messiah to come, or through Jesus Christ. He wrote the names of those people in the book of life. He did not write a list of names and then orchestrated their conversion to Christ as some extreme Calvinists believe. He wrote the names of those whom He knew were going to turn to Christ.

Of course, if all else fails, one can actually blow the dust off his Bible and actually read it and see that it says that we are all condemned already, and that only those who accept that Jesus paid the penalty for their sin on the cross will be saved from that condemnation.

What the OP is saying is the opposite of what the Bible says - that everyone is not condemned - only those who reject Christ. Perhaps our OP friend forgot to read the book of Romans!

When we all face the Lord in the Judgment, no one will accuse God of being unjust when they receive the hell sentence, because it will be made totally clear that it was not God's decision, but their own decision to reject the invitation to come to Christ. (Please don't introduce the issue of about those who have never heard the gospel. That's another issue altogether).

 

[101G]

been reading a few of the comments here in the topic.
#1. any books written is not for God but for man, you and I. for it is for a witness without a doubt. scripture,
Malachi 3:16 "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
Malachi 3:17 "And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
Malachi 3:18 "Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

well there are names added, and God must not have finish making up his jewels. for our Brother and Captain Cornelius name was added. supportive scripture, Acts 10:1 "There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
Acts 10:2 "A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
Acts 10:3 "He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
Acts 10:4 "And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God".
here the Greek term memorial is:
G3422 μνημόσυνον mnemosunon (mnee-mo-sï '-non) n.
a reminder (memorandum), i.e. record.
[from G3421]
KJV: memorial
Root(s): G3421

now going back to Malachi 3:16, the Hebrew term remembrance: as in the book of remembrance is
H2146 זִכרוֹן zikrown (zik-rone') n-m.
a memento (or memorable thing, day or writing).
[from H2142]
KJV: memorial, record.
Root(s): H2142 BINGO, it's the same thing "memorial".

so, from judging what was said in Malachi 3 our brother Cornelius came up before God in his making up his jewels. for brother Cornelius feared God, and he and his whole HOUSEHOLD was delievered, (their names added). and as a matter of fact he recieved the Holy Ghost before he was water baptized. for God gave the Spirit to him before... baptism. and as said he came up before God as a ..... "memorial", or remembrance of God.

PICJAG.

 

[Timtofly]

He did not write a list of names and then orchestrated their conversion to Christ as some extreme Calvinists believe.

God wrote every name of every human who ever lived from day 6 to the last day of this world. Everyone has a chance at salvation. You all are limiting God if you think God wrote what you claim He did. In fact, since God never said he only wrote a few names, you are putting words in God's mouth.

God created us as Sons of God, just because Adam disobeyed, does not change that fact. 2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some people think of slowness; on the contrary, he is patient with you; for it is not his purpose that anyone should be destroyed, but that everyone should turn from his sins."

 

[DNB]

No one is saved until they get to heaven, by that logic. Really, so all humans were born before creation? Whom is conjecturing who?

Well, yes, no is saved until they get to heaven, that is, on their death bed will determine the verdict. As I said, I'm not OSAS.
Because, you're saying, everyone is saved upon birth, in that as long as they don't denounce Christ (they can't renounce what they haven't confessed), they will be saved. This is what starting off with one's name in Book implies?

Again, you are entirely inferring your entire doctrine on this matter. That, simply because the Bible never states that any names are written in the Book, but only removed, therefore we establish that all names start off written in the Book of life, or saved. There's not enough material on the subject in order to affirm any conclusions, outside of the fact that God will act with severity against anyone that defies His covenants and ordinances. That is the only rule that can be established from such a sparse testimony.

 

[Timtofly]

Well, yes, no is saved until they get to heaven, that is, on their death bed will determine the verdict. As I said, I'm not OSAS.
Because, you're saying, everyone is saved upon birth, in that as long as they don't denounce Christ (they can't renounce what they haven't confessed), they will be saved. This is what starting off with one's name in Book implies?

Again, you are entirely inferring your entire doctrine on this matter. That, simply because the Bible never states that any names are written in the Book, but only removed, therefore we establish that all names start off written in the Book of life, or saved. There's not enough material on the subject in order to affirm any conclusions, outside of the fact that God will act with severity against anyone that defies His covenants and ordinances. That is the only rule that can be established from such a sparse testimony.

What you think about "a" doctrine is totally wrong and based upon false doctrine itself.

Having a name in before creation does not save you. Being sealed by the Holy Spirit does not save you. Accepting does not necessarily save you either. Dying knowing or not knowing does not save one either.


God’s willingness saves. God's promise to Abraham saves. That promise was the Atonement of God Himself as Jesus Christ that saves us.

What keeps us secure in that salvation is knowing that nothing in heaven and earth can take our salvation away, except God Himself.

The only thing that God views as being unsaved, removed from the Lamb's book of life, as if God never knew you is your own decision to save yourself.

 

[DNB]

What you think about "a" doctrine is totally wrong and based upon false doctrine itself.

Having a name in before creation does not save you. Being sealed by the Holy Spirit does not save you. Accepting does not necessarily save you either. Dying knowing or not knowing does not save one either.


God’s willingness saves. God's promise to Abraham saves. That promise was the Atonement of God Himself as Jesus Christ that saves us.

What keeps us secure in that salvation is knowing that nothing in heaven and earth can take our salvation away, except God Himself.

The only thing that God views as being unsaved, removed from the Lamb's book of life, as if God never knew you is your own decision to save yourself.

Oh, you're Reformed. I didn't understand at first what you were attempting to establish, but it all makes sense now.
Because you believe that God elects those that will be His, before the creation of time, therefore the Book of Life records what?
If none of the things that you mentioned above, save, and only God's sovereign decree, then why such ado about the BOL?
And, I'm sorry, if having one's name in BOL does not save, nor sealed by HS, nor accepting the Gospel (necessarily), nor knowing the Gospel, what does?
You're speaking in circles by saying that God's willingness saves you, but if the testimony is not in anything that you mentioned, then who's saved???
God's willingness should manifest itself by, writing your name in the Book, by sealing you with the Spirit, by your acceptance and testimony of the Gospel....

 

[Timtofly]

Oh, you're Reformed. I didn't understand at first what you were attempting to establish, but it all makes sense now.
Because you believe that God elects those that will be His, before the creation of time, therefore the Book of Life records what?
If none of the things that you mentioned above, save, and only God's sovereign decree, then why such ado about the BOL?
And, I'm sorry, if having one's name in BOL does not save, nor sealed by HS, nor accepting the Gospel (necessarily), nor knowing the Gospel, what does?
You're speaking in circles by saying that God's willingness saves you, but if the testimony is not in anything that you mentioned, then who's saved???
God's willingness should manifest itself by, writing your name in the Book, by sealing you with the Spirit, by your acceptance and testimony of the Gospel....

No, I am me. Not any doctrine or theology.

God's willingness is evident in all God’s creation. Salvation is one part of creation.

What testimony are you asking about?

The Atonement of and by God Himself is the only action in heaven and earth that can save.

 

[DNB]

No, I am me. Not any doctrine or theology.
God's willingness is evident in all God’s creation. Salvation is one part of creation.
What testimony are you asking about?
The Atonement of and by God Himself is the only action in heaven and earth that can save.

Ok, but it appears that you hold to predestination?
The testimony that i'm referring to is, how does one know if they're saved, if all the symptoms that you cited, are meaningless?

Well, no, God did not perform the Atonement, that's blasphemy. He orchestrated it, and sent His beloved son to effectuate it, in order that it could be valid. God would be disqualified by attempting to obey Himself, and die on the cross.
But, even outside of the logistics, you're being extremely vague and circular, ...what is the confession, what is the conviction based on, what does grace by faith mean???? Don't keep repeating that the Atonement saves, everybody knows that, even Dawkins, one has to first, hear it, then understand it, then believe it, and confess it, ...obviously.

 

[Timtofly]

Saying that God was not the Atonement is a blasphemy.

The life of the believer has many aspects, just like God has many attributes.

What a believer experiences as a believer has nothing to do with the act of Salvation. The actions of a believer works out in the flesh what already happened in spirit.

No, I do not hold to any doctrine, especially not a man made interpretation. Yes there are doctrines in the Bible, and I accept them as true. When humans change their meanings to suit there own agendas or desires, a doctrine is rendered useless.

The security of salvation is the fact that only God can save.

 

[DNB]

Saying that God was not the Atonement is a blasphemy.
The life of the believer has many aspects, just like God has many attributes.
What a believer experiences as a believer has nothing to do with the act of Salvation. The actions of a believer works out in the flesh what already happened in spirit.
No, I do not hold to any doctrine, especially not a man made interpretation. Yes there are doctrines in the Bible, and I accept them as true. When humans change their meanings to suit there own agendas or desires, a doctrine is rendered useless.
The security of salvation is the fact that only God can save.

I was suspicious TTF, you're sounding radical. The minute that I hear someone equate their personal interpretations and opinions, as equivalent to God's Word, I know that they're not to be taken seriously. You seem to qualify right now.
Especially for the fact that after about 5 or so posts, you have yet to explain HOW God saves. And this did not even occur to you. ...which is why we've been going in circles for so long.