I’m in a strange place: very conservative, but not Christian

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Romanov2488

Active Member
Jul 20, 2022
722
103
28
31
Charlotte
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
I disagree. Science tells us what is effective. In the case of blood-letting, it is not an effective cure for illness.

Let's not forget that the same science produces rockets to travel to Mars and rockets to carry nuclear bombs. The choice of how to use a rocket is a moral one. Science could care less about a rocket's payload. Science only cares that the payload is effectively delivered.

But why is bloodletting not an effective cure for illness? Is it not due to science? People thought they were doing a morally good thing in the past by practicing bloodletting. They say you can’t derive ought from is, but a lot of immoral things have been done by humans simply due to ignorance.
 
Last edited:

Mantis

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2020
1,569
1,852
113
The wilderness
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
“Religion is not set in stone, god is”. Yet the entire religion revolves around a god set in stone. The Bible has merit, but I can never say everything in it is true.

However, let’s go back to one of the statements you made. You said, “Everything in the Bible is true.” Genesis 9:28-29 says “After the flood Noah lived 350 years. Noah lived a total of 950 years, and then he died.”

Do you believe Noah lived 950 years despite us not having evidence of any human beings living for that long?

Why is something such as believing that something such as a talking snake existed considered religion, but if you say you believe in a winged rabbit..you get told you’re insane?

Absolutely I believe that he lived that long. Scientific biblical scholars have stated that before the flood the the oxogen was different. Much more pure. The dinosaurs nostrils were so small that they couldn't breath with todays air. We have Organs that are not used in our bodies today that were probably used for longevity in a pre flood environment.

The Devil took the form of some kind of serpent, not a snake. It was some form of a serpent that God said will no longer be because of that event. We don't know what kind of form he took. And we consider that truth because we have faith. We believe. I don't know why you don't believe. The thing is Jesus lets you know he is real when you really repent and look for him.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2016
610
385
63
81
Dallas, TX
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is about being honest with myself when I don’t know something rather than fallaciously making an assertion without the proper evidence for it. The idea of “not knowing” scares a lot of people, they want to fill in the gap…I understand. I would rather not fill in that gap and use a more reliable tool in the arsenal-science. Science doesn’t have all the answers, but it is continuously moving forward. Religion only serves to impede the progress humanity can make…rationally speaking. It does make people feel better about themselves and if that is what’s going to take for someone dying of cancer for example, I would not want to take that away from them. But as far as progress goes, religion stands in the way more often than not. We have come a long way in the past 500 years due to science. Religion on the other hand, has remained stagnant. It is antiquated, it is stifling the GOP. There is a reason why it has earned the titles of being anti-science, just a bunch of conspiracy theorists who lack critical thinking.

You want to talk about God’s existence…in that case, God also gave you the ability to think critically. However once you begin to think critically, the belief in a god dies the moment you question it. Christians talk about salvation and I agree, they are saved…saved from asking questions.

The churches ask for money…you question them, “But isn’t money the root of all evil?” They tell you, “No no, it’s the love of money.” Ok that explains it all, here you go. Many prey on people’s guilt without the people noticing that just maybe their own church has the problem of ‘the love of money.’ How many luxurious cars and nice vacations do you see these pastors getting and going on? Of course they’ll tell you all that money is a blessing from God. In the end they’re in Cancun, and you’re at home asking for forgiveness. They don’t have to open their books for the state or report anything. They’ve got it good.

Standard agnostic rhetoric. Nothing more - excuses, and rationalizations. I'm pretty sure you ALREADY KNOW God's there, and that HE wants something of you, that you don't really want to give Him.
 

Romanov2488

Active Member
Jul 20, 2022
722
103
28
31
Charlotte
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Absolutely I believe that he lived that long. Scientific biblical scholars have stated that before the flood the the oxogen was different. Much more pure. The dinosaurs nostrils were so small that they couldn't breath with todays air. We have Organs that are not used in our bodies today that were probably used for longevity in a pre flood environment.

The Devil took the form of some kind of serpent, not a snake. It was some form of a serpent that God said will no longer be because of that event. We don't know what kind of form he took. And we consider that truth because we have faith. We believe. I don't know why you don't believe. The thing is Jesus lets you know he is real when you really repent and look for him.

Because the Bible to me is all metaphorical. I find that’s the only real purpose of it. To provide a very elaborate metaphor for the consequences of human nature. Any religious text you open can make sense…at least to me anyways. I can watch a movie with dragons…there will be many aspects from the story line I would be able to relate to…doesn’t mean the dragons themselves are real however.

If you believe that someone like Jesus walked on water, you will be considered religious by society. If you believe in a winged rabbit from Mars, society will consider you to be insane. Funny how that works
 

Romanov2488

Active Member
Jul 20, 2022
722
103
28
31
Charlotte
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Standard agnostic rhetoric. Nothing more - excuses, and rationalizations. I'm pretty sure you ALREADY KNOW God's there, and that HE wants something of you, that you don't really want to give Him.

That’s almost like a Muslim telling you that you already know Allah is there and wants something of you.
 

Mantis

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2020
1,569
1,852
113
The wilderness
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Because the Bible to me is all metaphorical. I find that’s the only real purpose of it. To provide a very elaborate metaphor for the consequences of human nature. Any religious text you open can make sense…at least to me anyways. I can watch a movie with dragons…there will be many aspects from the story line I would be able to relate to…doesn’t mean the dragons themselves are real however.

If you believe that someone like Jesus walked on water, you will be considered religious by society. If you believe in a winged rabbit from Mars, society will consider you to be insane. Funny how that works

Well thats because Jesus did walk on water. He came to Earth. Our whole times are based off of it. Do you know why this is year 2022? It is not because a winged rabbit from mars came here. It is based off of God came to earth. Born if flesh and lived a sinless life. He died on the cross to save you from Hell. It is real and you are just making excuses to rationalize it away. Like Bob said above, You know in your heart that God is real. There is a passage in the Bible that says pretty much that. That you will have no excuse for rejecting God when your judgement day comes.
 

Romanov2488

Active Member
Jul 20, 2022
722
103
28
31
Charlotte
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Well thats because Jesus did walk on water. He came to Earth. Our whole times are based off of it. Do you know why this is year 2022? It is not because a winged rabbit from mars came here. It is based off of God came to earth. Born if flesh and lived a sinless life. He died on the cross to save you from Hell. It is real and you are just making excuses to rationalize it away. Like Bob said above, You know in your heart that God is real. There is a passage in the Bible that says pretty much that. That you will have no excuse for rejecting God when your judgement day comes.

And that’s the issue of religion. Everyone else’s religion is wrong, except yours. 3,000 gods…but only yours exists.

I like how you say that hell is real. We are all going to hell in someone’s religion.
 

Mantis

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2020
1,569
1,852
113
The wilderness
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And that’s the issue of religion. Everyone else’s religion is wrong, except yours. 3,000 gods…but only yours exists.

I like how you say that hell is real. We are all going to hell in someone’s religion.

Hey Satan has been hard at work deceiving the whole world.
 

farouk

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2009
30,790
19,232
113
North America
Sorry that was kind of rude of me. I just get frustrated with this.
@Mantis

I appreciate your humility; Hebrews 11.6 is still relevant:

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mantis

Romanov2488

Active Member
Jul 20, 2022
722
103
28
31
Charlotte
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Excuses. Why are you here? Are you trying to convince us that we are all wrong? Or are you seeking God?

Like I have mentioned previously, I am conservative…but atheist. Here the majority of Christians are conservative whereas majority of atheists are liberal. Republican Party wants to implement certain economic policies, yet they are heavily influenced by religion in their policy making (abortion for example). It’s tough out here.
 

LearningToLetGo

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2022
217
250
63
Western Washington
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
But why is bloodletting not an effective cure for illness? Is it not due to science? People thought they were doing a morally good thing in the past by practicing bloodletting. They say you can’t derive ought from is, but a lot of immoral things have been done by humans simply due to ignorance.

Blood-letting is not an effective cure because it does not work.

Science and morality operate in different domains. Science tells us what does and does not work. Morality tells us what we should and should not do.

For example, science tells us how to build an engine. Morality tells us how to use the engine. Modern society might use an engine to power a vehicle. Ancient Aztecs might have used the same engine to perform human sacrifice.
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Blood-letting is not an effective cure because it does not work.

Science and morality operate in different domains. Science tells us what does and does not work. Morality tells us what we should and should not do.

For example, science tells us how to build an engine. Morality tells us how to use the engine. Modern society might use an engine to power a vehicle. Ancient Aztecs might have used the same engine to perform human sacrifice.
Well, the less blood that we have in our body, the less blood transmitted disease is there.

This is why the government bleeds us dry.
 

Romanov2488

Active Member
Jul 20, 2022
722
103
28
31
Charlotte
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Government bleeds us dry, except for the churches, mosques, monasteries, and synagogues. Religious institutions are some of the biggest businesses around…the only businesses who never have to open their books in fact. We also have many elected officials making decisions purely based off of their religion. If religion has such a big influence on politics…I say it’s time they start opening their books for the state. Lauren Boebert has outright said that she is tired of separation of church and state.

If given the option, I wouldn’t be surprised if religious folks would rather pay higher taxes instead of having their religious institution taxed.
 
Last edited:

Mantis

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2020
1,569
1,852
113
The wilderness
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I think it is funny that in the Bible it always stated that sinners and tax collectors were in the same category.
 

Romanov2488

Active Member
Jul 20, 2022
722
103
28
31
Charlotte
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
I think it is funny that in the Bible it always stated that sinners and tax collectors were in the same category.

And yet somehow your religious institution is immune to taxation but you aren’t. Your church should grant you immunity from taxation since you follow their faith…or they should pay taxes themselves instead. Why won’t they extend their immunity to taxation over to you since you’re a devotee?
 

Windmillcharge

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2017
2,934
1,823
113
68
London
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Why do I have to explain why anything exists by inserting something without evidence to “fill the gap”? I’d rather leave it as a gap and whatever we find out, we find out along the way. Whatever we don’t find out, we just don’t find out. Filling the gap with something unsubstantiated kills the possibility of making progress. We would not be where we are today if we treated all issues like that.

Sorry but you are incorrect.
People, scientists start by looking and questioning, but they quickly find information that influences how they investigate or how they account for the information.
Today we all have preconcieved ideas and biases.

For someone who is asking for eviednce that there is a God, you are showing that you are not willing to look at the evidence.


But if contemplating that there is a God is too upsetting for you, how about investigating Jesus's death and resurrection?

Try reading what Lee Stroble, William lane Craig, Dr g Habermas to name just three intellectual people who are convinced by reason that Jesus lived, was excuted, burried, that his tomb was found to be empty and that the disciple met with a risen Jesus.

Can you provide arguments that prove them wrong?