I believe one who deliberately sins in not a Christian.

[Elizabeth]

[SIZE=16pt]A sin leading to death?[/SIZE]​

[SIZE=16pt]Let me give you a scriptural example of a sin leading to death.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Acts 5:1-11) “...Ananias. He and his wife, Sapphira...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]A spiritual Christian tells God he or she loves him, but if that Christian deliberately sins the he lied to God. One who deliberately sins loves the devil/Satan.[/SIZE]

Yes, that's one example of a mortal sin. The Scriptures are full of examples of mortal sins. There are other mortal sins i.e. "sins unto death" found in 1 Corthinthians 6:9-11. What kind of death? It is always the death of the soul because mortal sin deprives it of sanctifying grace. While it's true that sometimes God punishes a person who commits a mortal sin by immediately striking them dead physically, as in the case of Ananias and Sapphira, it is not always this way. There are many people who continue to walk this earth committng mortal sin after mortal sin (many "sins unto death") and storing up for themselves wrath at the Day of Judgment.

One who is in the state of mortal sin may yet be alive physically but such a one is dead spiritually.

 

[Dan57]

[SIZE=16pt]A deliberate sin is one where a person knows an act is wrong, but willingly commits the act anyway.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]A person who is a spiritual Christian has told the Holy Spirit he or she loves God. If such a person deliberately/willingly commits a sin, then he or she are lying to the Holy Spirit, and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and that is unforgivable. [/SIZE]

I would respectfully disagree... If your analysis is correct, then we are still under the Law of Moses and the sacrifice of Christ is of no effect. If we are condemned for transgressing the law, then we are not under grace. Having knowledge of Christ does not make a Christian perfect by law, but rather, a Christian is perfected in Christ. I also don't define blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as committing any mortal sin, but as denying, refusing, or rejecting the Holy Spirit. Your definition suggest that "sin" invalidates a person from being a Christian, but this omits forgiveness and repentance. Imo, a Christian is anyone who's trying to follow Christ, sins and all. "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace" (Galatians 5:4).

 

[Giver]

I would respectfully disagree... If your analysis is correct, then we are still under the Law of Moses and the sacrifice of Christ is of no effect. If we are condemned for transgressing the law, then we are not under grace. Having knowledge of Christ does not make a Christian perfect by law, but rather, a Christian is perfected in Christ. I also don't define blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as committing any mortal sin, but as denying, refusing, or rejecting the Holy Spirit. Your definition suggest that "sin" invalidates a person from being a Christian, but this omits forgiveness and repentance. Imo, a Christian is anyone who's trying to follow Christ, sins and all. "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace" (Galatians 5:4).

[SIZE=16pt]Does your opinion rebuke the scripture that I used to confirm my understanding?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus came to complete the Law, and it is his Word that we need to live.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven.[/SIZE] When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

 

[bling]

[SIZE=medium]Have you ever been around a group of guys that did not sin?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]My experience went like this: [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I worked with prisoners program teaching Bible (one hour on Sunday morning to a group of 14 with three other Christians teach groups of 14) and taught three groups of “Christians”. The first group is guys (going to school it is called) that start out their stay causing trouble getting thrown in the tank. Then they start increasingly attending the services, carrying their Bible, being nice, and say they are Christians. By the time the parole board meets they have this glowing report showing continued improvement and are released. These guys still carry weapons, are members of a gang, and every prisoner know they just “went to school” to get out. The second group were converted before they went to prison (grandma conversions), but watch raunchy TV, hang with a loss group, laugh at off colored jokes, are not always talking about Jesus and are not trying to convert others. Their first day the snitches see this, so they talk to the Bulls that approach them saying you are not a Christian and make them a slave (often sexual) or at best gang member. They still come to Bible study on Sunday so they can tell Granny (who visits them Sunday afternoon) what they learned, but they are slaves (sometimes sexually) to some bull. The third group is fanatical, they stick close to each other, they: study, pray, witness to everyone, and avoid even a hint of insincerity that the snitches could see. They carry no weapons, but step between those that are being beaten especially in persecution. They had grown over the last 3 years from just a couple of guys to now 42, but it came at a high price. Each convert had on the day he was baptized given up the protection of his gang membership, turned over his weapons along with all his possessions (the gang owns everything including them), they were beaten if not by the gang they left, then by other gangs looking for payback and then they were watch constantly looking for any sign the snitches might interpret as weakness (anything less than what Christ would do in the situation, would result in a beating). There is absolutely no privacy and these Christians never wanted to be found alone. They slept in barracks where at least one stayed awake all night praying over them so they could sleep without the fear of being smashed in the head in the middle of the night. These guys believed and counted on power from the Holy Spirit, I did not know existed. They come battered and bruised each week hungry for some real meaningful Christ like lesson that goes beyond their group study of 40+hours that week on the same subject, which I could not provide. They mostly helped me with my poor example of Christianity. [/SIZE]

 

[Giver]

[SIZE=medium]Have you ever been around a group of guys that did not sin?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]My experience went like this: [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I worked with prisoners program teaching Bible (one hour on Sunday morning to a group of 14 with three other Christians teach groups of 14) and taught three groups of “Christians”. The first group is guys (going to school it is called) that start out their stay causing trouble getting thrown in the tank. Then they start increasingly attending the services, carrying their Bible, being nice, and say they are Christians. By the time the parole board meets they have this glowing report showing continued improvement and are released. These guys still carry weapons, are members of a gang, and every prisoner know they just “went to school” to get out. The second group were converted before they went to prison (grandma conversions), but watch raunchy TV, hang with a loss group, laugh at off colored jokes, are not always talking about Jesus and are not trying to convert others. Their first day the snitches see this, so they talk to the Bulls that approach them saying you are not a Christian and make them a slave (often sexual) or at best gang member. They still come to Bible study on Sunday so they can tell Granny (who visits them Sunday afternoon) what they learned, but they are slaves (sometimes sexually) to some bull. The third group is fanatical, they stick close to each other, they: study, pray, witness to everyone, and avoid even a hint of insincerity that the snitches could see. They carry no weapons, but step between those that are being beaten especially in persecution. They had grown over the last 3 years from just a couple of guys to now 42, but it came at a high price. Each convert had on the day he was baptized given up the protection of his gang membership, turned over his weapons along with all his possessions (the gang owns everything including them), they were beaten if not by the gang they left, then by other gangs looking for payback and then they were watch constantly looking for any sign the snitches might interpret as weakness (anything less than what Christ would do in the situation, would result in a beating). There is absolutely no privacy and these Christians never wanted to be found alone. They slept in barracks where at least one stayed awake all night praying over them so they could sleep without the fear of being smashed in the head in the middle of the night. These guys believed and counted on power from the Holy Spirit, I did not know existed. They come battered and bruised each week hungry for some real meaningful Christ like lesson that goes beyond their group study of 40+hours that week on the same subject, which I could not provide. They mostly helped me with my poor example of Christianity. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Let me give you a witness of a Spirit filled Christian’s walk with God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]One of the first lesions God’s gave me was to never think negative of anyone. The Holy Spirit did not allow me to have my habit of thinking bad of people, who in the past had hurt me. If I did start to think negative of anyone I would be flooded with good thoughts about that person. Jesus let me know that bad thoughts of people hurt them.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus came into my living room and told me we were not to hurt/harm anyone for any reason. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus/Holy Spirit would always tell me what was the right thing to do, and gave me the grace to always obey.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus has taught and has given me the grace to always obey him. I do, as God wants me to do every day all day long.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Before the indwelling of God, I would pray to die before ever committing a sin. But would always fail, and I just could not ever stop from committing sin.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Now with God directing my life sin is not something to be concerned about any more, God protects me from Satan/sin.[/SIZE]

 

[Dodo_David]

1 John 3:9 states, "No one born of God makes a practice of sinning ..."

A person who deliberately practices sinning is a person who wants to live a sinful lifestyle.

We Christians don't want to do such a thing. We want to live right, just as the Apostle Paul wanted to live right.
Yet, while we still have our mortal bodies, our flesh will trip us up from time to time and cause us to sin even though we don't want to.

That is why the Apostle Paul writes, "I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin." (Romans 7:25)

Paul's mind did not want him to sin, but his flesh continued to desire sin, and at times his flesh did sin despite his mind's unwillingness to sin.

1 John 2:1-2 states, "... if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. "

The idea that a Spirit-filled Christian's flesh will never again sin is an idea that isn't supported by Scriptures.

The fact that our flesh will continue to sin is reflected in 1 John 1:9, which says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Giver, to your credit, I believe that the title of this thread pertains to what the Apostle Paul says in Romans 8:5:

"For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit."

 

[Giver]

1 John 3:9 states, "No one born of God makes a practice of sinning ..."

A person who deliberately practices sinning is a person who wants to live a sinful lifestyle.

We Christians don't want to do such a thing. We want to live right, just as the Apostle Paul wanted to live right.
Yet, while we still have our mortal bodies, our flesh will trip us up from time to time and cause us to sin even though we don't want to.

That is why the Apostle Paul writes, "I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin." (Romans 7:24)

Paul's mind did not want him to sin, but his flesh continued to desire sin, and at times his flesh did sin despite his mind's unwillingness to sin.

1 John 2:1-2 states, "... if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. "

The idea that a Spirit-filled Christian's flesh will never again sin is an idea that isn't supported by Scriptures.

The fact that our flesh will continue to sin is reflected in 1 John 1:9, which says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Giver, to your credit, I believe that the title of this thread pertains to what the Apostle Paul says in Romans 8:5:

"For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit."

[SIZE=16pt]A Christian does not sin. The following is scripture support of that statement.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Galatians 5:16)“Let me put it like this if you are guided by the Spirit you will be in no danger of yielding to self-indulgence....”.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Romans 6: 1-2) “[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?[/SIZE] [SIZE=16pt]By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Romans 6:11) “[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 3:8) “[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt] did”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 3:4-6) “Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 3:9) “No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 5:18) “ We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.[/SIZE] Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

 

[KingJ]

Giver, you are simply not reading the scripture you quoting properly.

The only verse needed to disprove your theory is 1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

 

[Dan57]

Does your opinion rebuke the scripture that I used to confirm my understanding?

Jesus came to complete the Law, and it is his Word that we need to live.

No, my interpretation of scripture just differs from yours. I believe that everyone sins, and if eternity is lost because of sin, then the sacrifice of Christ becomes null and void. Christ was our redeemer, he suffered for our transgressions (Isaiah 53:5). So we are no longer condemned by the curse of the law, because that price was paid on Calvary. That's the beauty of Christianity. But your saying that if a Christian sins, they are not a Christian. Didn't Jesus say that if we forgive those who sin against us, our Father in heaven will also forgive us (Matthew 6:14-15)? Was Peter condemned for denying that he even knew Christ 3 times? Was King David condemned for committing adultery with Bathsheba and murdering Uriah? Or did he repent and find mercy? While I agree that a Christian should resist deliberately sinning, I don't believe that our short-comings automatically categorize us as being non-Christian. That message is a bit depressing because it squelches all hope, eliminates forgiveness, and trivializes the power of the cross. I also agree that a person who willfully sins against the Holy Spirit without conscience or repentance, is not forgiven. But if screwing-up equates to making a person non-Christian, I've never met a Christian

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

 

[Giver]

No, my interpretation of scripture just differs from yours. I believe that everyone sins, and if eternity is lost because of sin, then the sacrifice of Christ becomes null and void. Christ was our redeemer, he suffered for our transgressions (Isaiah 53:5). So we are no longer condemned by the curse of the law, because that price was paid on Calvary. That's the beauty of Christianity. But your saying that if a Christian sins, they are not a Christian. Didn't Jesus say that if we forgive those who sin against us, our Father in heaven will also forgive us (Matthew 6:14-15)? Was Peter condemned for denying that he even knew Christ 3 times? Was King David condemned for committing adultery with Bathsheba and murdering Uriah? Or did he repent and find mercy? While I agree that a Christian should resist deliberately sinning, I don't believe that our short-comings automatically categorize us as being non-Christian. That message is a bit depressing because it squelches all hope, eliminates forgiveness, and trivializes the power of the cross. I also agree that a person who willfully sins against the Holy Spirit without conscience or repentance, is not forgiven. But if screwing-up equates to making a person non-Christian, I've never met a Christian

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

[SIZE=16pt]That question tells me you have no understanding of why Jesus gave us his Holy Spirit.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Without the Holy Spirit man is defenseless against Satan/sin. Paul tells us that in Romans seven.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]In Romans eight he explains to us just how God made it possible to never sin again.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]After that Holy Spirit gives us the knowledge of the truth, and the grace to resist Satan/sin, and if we ever revert back to sin, then there is no repentance for such a person.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]If one who has been taught by the Holy Spirit deliberately sin, then he or she has lied to the Holy Spirit and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. [/SIZE][SIZE=16pt](Acts 5:1-11)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]I am not a teacher so am not trying to convince anyone. My job is to just give a word.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]If one still sins he or she are of the devil. John told us that, and people do all sorts of mental gymnastics to deny what John said about sin.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The reason people still sin is because they allowed man to teach him or her about God. One can never receive the knowledge of the truth from man. Only God can bring one to the truth. I can give you scripture that tells us that. [/SIZE][SIZE=16pt](1 Corinthians 2:10-16) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]If one sins he or she are of the devil. So if a Christian teacher still sins, then his or her students are learning about God from the devil.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt](1 John 3:8) “[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”[/SIZE]

 

[Dodo_David]

That question tells me you have no understanding of why Jesus gave us his Holy Spirit.

Giver, the fact that others here disagree with your interpretation of Bible verses doesn't mean that they "have no understanding of why Jesus gave us his Holy Spirit."

The fact that others can't reconcile your claim to what they read in the Bible doesn't mean that they are in error.

Nobody here is the final earthly authority on how to correctly interpret the Bible, not even you.

So, please try to be more diplomatic when disagreeing with others on how the Bible should be interpreted.
You don't convince others that you are correct by implying that your are somehow spiritually superior to them.

 

[Dan57]

In Romans eight he explains to us just how God made it possible to never sin again.

After that Holy Spirit gives us the knowledge of the truth, and the grace to resist Satan/sin, and if we ever revert back to sin, then there is no repentance for such a person.

If one who has been taught by the Holy Spirit deliberately sin, then he or she has lied to the Holy Spirit and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 5:1-11)

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

Well, suffice to say, we see it differently.. With regard to Acts 5, Ananias and Sapphira lied against the Holy Spirit, and to deny the Holy Spirit is blasphemy. But other sins aren't blasphemous, and are therefore forgivable. Romans 8:3 says; "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh". This to me means that Christ defeated sin in our stead. He did not sin, so the sin he condemned had to be ours! The same with the second sentence in 1 John 3:8, Jesus destroyed sin by taking the burden of sin upon himself. So imo, if my sins are unforgivable, then Christ died in vain. God didn't make it possible to never sin, God made it possible for believers to be washed free of sin. We are therefore perfected in Christ, and not by our own works. Sin may have originated with the devil, but both were defeated on the cross. "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Corinthians 15:55-57)

 

[williemac]

Mr. Giver has a problem with the rules of the new covenant. The only way we can be judged for sin is if we are in a system that uses the law as a standard for our behavior. Furthermore the system that uses the law will need to use the enforcement of it as well; which is reward for obedience and punishment for disobedience. The problem with this is that in Rom.5, we find that it was the offense of one man, Adam, that put us in this condition, and it is also the obedience of one Man, Jesus that can bring us out of it. Seems to me that Giver's theology is rendering every man for himself.
Furthermore, as we have seen in 1John2:1, Jesus is named as the advocate for those believers who fall into sin. However, if one is lost forever when he sins, as Giver suggests, then no need for an advocate. His conclusion from Heb.10:26 has some serious issues with the revelations of our covenant with God; a covenant in which He promises to remember our sins no more. Seems His memory is shorter in Giver's theology than "no more".

As well, Mr. giver has not yet understood the significance of our old man holding the position of having been crucified with Christ. The part of us that is responsible for sin is dead in God's eyes already. No more sacrifice is needed for a dead man. It is finished.

No, the context of Heb.10:26 is in the case of those who sin willfully (as opposed to deliberately). This is one who has never had the sacrifice of Jesus applied in the first place. If it had been, the old man would have already been declared dead in Christ, and the new man would remain unscathed by the sin of the believer. The expectation of judgment is mentioned. However, further back in Heb.10, we find that the blood of Jesus actually purges the sin conscience. In easier terms, it means that the conscience is brought to a place where there is no expectation of judgment. This actually complies with the promise made by Jesus Himself in John 5:24, where He states that when a person is in faith, he has actually the possessor of everlasting life, and will not come into judgment unto condemnation. Having eternal life is the equivalent to having no judgment, being released from the consequences of the law through the death of Jesus.

The only way one can be judged for sin is if he is not part of the new covenant through faith.

 

[Giver]

Mr. Giver has a problem with the rules of the new covenant. The only way we can be judged for sin is if we are in a system that uses the law as a standard for our behavior. Furthermore the system that uses the law will need to use the enforcement of it as well; which is reward for obedience and punishment for disobedience. The problem with this is that in Rom.5, we find that it was the offense of one man, Adam, that put us in this condition, and it is also the obedience of one Man, Jesus that can bring us out of it. Seems to me that Giver's theology is rendering every man for himself.
Furthermore, as we have seen in 1John2:1, Jesus is named as the advocate for those believers who fall into sin. However, if one is lost forever when he sins, as Giver suggests, then no need for an advocate. His conclusion from Heb.10:26 has some serious issues with the revelations of our covenant with God; a covenant in which He promises to remember our sins no more. Seems His memory is shorter in Giver's theology than "no more".

As well, Mr. giver has not yet understood the significance of our old man holding the position of having been crucified with Christ. The part of us that is responsible for sin is dead in God's eyes already. No more sacrifice is needed for a dead man. It is finished.

No, the context of Heb.10:26 is in the case of those who sin willfully (as opposed to deliberately). This is one who has never had the sacrifice of Jesus applied in the first place. If it had been, the old man would have already been declared dead in Christ, and the new man would remain unscathed by the sin of the believer. The expectation of judgment is mentioned. However, further back in Heb.10, we find that the blood of Jesus actually purges the sin conscience. In easier terms, it means that the conscience is brought to a place where there is no expectation of judgment. This actually complies with the promise made by Jesus Himself in John 5:24, where He states that when a person is in faith, he has actually the possessor of everlasting life, and will not come into judgment unto condemnation. Having eternal life is the equivalent to having no judgment, being released from the consequences of the law through the death of Jesus.

The only way one can be judged for sin is if he is not part of the new covenant through faith.

[SIZE=16pt]I ask you who taught you the teaching that you posted here?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Did the Holy Spirit teach you such a theology?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 2:27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Can you find where such a teaching was ever taught by the Church before sixteen hundreds? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]You can’t find where the Christian Church ever taught what you want people to believe.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The Church never accepted such a teaching. It was only accepted after Calvin, Luther, and the rest of the so-called reformers started their theology. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt] How people cam actually believe that it took God over fifteen hundreds years to bring his people to know the truth, is way beyond my understanding.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Also your teaching has to ignore so much to the written Word of God to be believed. [/SIZE]

 

[Dodo_David]

[SIZE=16pt]I ask you who taught you the teaching that you posted here?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Did the Holy Spirit teach you such a theology?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 2:27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Can you find where such a teaching was ever taught by the Church before sixteen hundreds? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]You can’t find where the Christian Church ever taught what you want people to believe.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The Church never accepted such a teaching. It was only accepted after Calvin, Luther, and the rest of the so-called reformers started their theology. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt] How people cam actually believe that it took God over fifteen hundreds years to bring his people to know the truth, is way beyond my understanding.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Also your teaching has to ignore so much to the written Word of God to be believed. [/SIZE]

Uh, Giver, people here are disagreeing with you because of what they read in the Bible.

The fact that they disagree with your personal interpretation of the Bible doesn't necessarily mean that they haven't been guided by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Angelina]

If anyone here were honest with themselves they would admit that they struggle in some area of sin. I do not know anyone who does not.

If I were a drug addict prior to being saved, does being saved no-longer make me a drug addict? or a thief? or someone with serious anger issues? These past sinful practices do not just fall away with wishful thinking. Romans 8:10, 11, 12, 13. The changes occur in the heart, mind and attitude/actions with the help of the Holy Spirit [a change of countenance]. This is where the Holy Spirit works mostly when we have such issues. Some of these issues are instantly cut off at salvation, others are a work in progress. The Holy Spirit dwells within us to help us to be more Christlike and less "the old man." The struggle is between our soul and the Spirit Galatians 5:16-17...this will always be a struggle until we are no-longer subject to the body of this tent.

Peace!

 

[Giver]

Uh, Giver, people here are disagreeing with you because of what they read in the Bible.

The fact that they disagree with your personal interpretation of the Bible doesn't necessarily mean that they haven't been guided by the Holy Spirit.

[SIZE=16pt]I don’t believe I ever said anything about being guided by the Holy Spirit.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]People all say they are guided. I ask if the Holy Spirit has actually taught him or her. I want to know if the teaching that people are posting has come to them from God or some people in their church, or seminary.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]One can say that the Holy Spirit guided him or her, but only by getting some warm feeling or some insight into a scripture verse. Well Satan give feeling and insights to people also.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]If the Holy Spirit is teaching one then a person comes to know his voice, and will follow no other.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]What the Holy Spirit teaches bears good fruit, and sinning is not good fruit, it is rotten fruit.[/SIZE]

If anyone here were honest with themselves they would admit that they struggle in some area of sin. I do not know anyone who does not.

If I were a drug addict prior to being saved, does being saved no-longer make me a drug addict? or a thief? or someone with serious anger issues? These past sinful practices do not just fall away with wishful thinking. Romans 8:10, 11, 12, 13. The changes occur in the heart, mind and attitude/actions with the help of the Holy Spirit [a change of countenance]. This is where the Holy Spirit works mostly when we have such issues. Some of these issues are instantly cut off at salvation, others are a work in progress. The Holy Spirit dwells within us to help us to be more Christlike and less "the old man." The struggle is between our soul and the Spirit Galatians 5:16-17...this will always be a struggle until we are no-longer subject to the body of this tent.

Peace!

[SIZE=16pt]I am sorry you still struggle with sin. John says if one knows God he or she will not sin. Now is John wrong?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 3:4-6) “Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Now I am not telling you what John says. You can read it yourself, and I don’t need to interpret it for you.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=16pt](1 John 3:9) “No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Again John tells us that if God begets one they will not sin. Now am I interpreting this for you? It is plain English is it not?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 3:8) “[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]John says one who sins are of the devil; again I did not need to interpret that for you did I? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The only way people can deny what John tells us is to have different definition of sin, or say it does not matter if one sins.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Calvin, and Luther came up with much theology to discredit much of Scripture, but the Church never accepted their theology. [/SIZE]

 

[JPPT1974]

We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. As we need to repent and ask for forgiveness right away. That is why and how we have access and forgiveness as Christians and being God's children!

 

[Dodo_David]

Calvin, and Luther came up with much theology to discredit much of Scripture, but the Church never accepted their theology.

Uh, the universal Church includes Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox Christians, Messianic Jews, Oriental Orthodox Christians, Protestants and Roman Catholics.

Also, Calvin and Luther simply passed on to others what they had discovered in the Scriptures. They weren't trying to discredit Scriptures. Instead, they were trying to reveal Scriptures.

So, you don't agree with what Calvin and Luther discovered in the Scriptures? Well, so be it.

You don't agree with the way that others here are interpreting Scriptures? Well, so be it.

No individual, church, group, fellowship, association or denomination is the final earthly authority on how to properly interpret the Bible.

 

[Angelina]

We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. As we need to repent and ask for forgiveness right away. That is why and how we have access and forgiveness as Christians and being God's children!

Indeed...some are just not being honest with their struggle against sin....

Hebrews 12
3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls.

4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. 5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:

“My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”

7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

If we were instantly sinless when we received Jesus as Lord and savior, we would not need to be Chastised...now would we? :huh: