I have noticed the following Negatives about the 'rapture'...

[rwb]

Being indwelt by the holy spirit doesn't make a person God or fully God. Jesus was the Christ - the anointed one. NOT God the Father!

Yes it does! Christ and the Father are ONE according to His words.

John 10:30 (KJV) I and my Father are one.

John 1:1-4 (KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

John 1:14-15 (KJV) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Flesh & bones cannot inherit the Kingdom of God in heaven

I believe you meant?:

1Co_15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit​

the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.​

​

Christ Resurrected, on earth:
Luk_24:39 "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself: handle Me,
and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me have."

The Same Christ, Ascended Into Heaven:
Eph_5:30 "For we are members of His Body, of His Flesh, And of His Bones."

​

Likewise, at our resurrection, we "will be Conformed ↑ Unto His Image ↑" (Romans 8:29),
With Christ Preeminent "Among many brethren...inheriting the kingdom"?

Amen?

 

[rwb]

I believe you meant?:

1Co_15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit​

the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.​

​

Christ Resurrected, on earth:
Luk_24:39 "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself: handle Me,
and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me have."

The Same Christ, Ascended Into Heaven:
Eph_5:30 "For we are members of His Body, of His Flesh, And of His Bones."

​

Likewise, at our resurrection, we "will be Conformed ↑ Unto His Image ↑" (Romans 8:29),
With Christ Preeminent "Among many brethren...inheriting the kingdom"?

Amen?

Flesh & blood, nor mortal, corruptible man can inherit the Kingdom of God in heaven or the new earth, is probably the way I should have phrased it. Christ though flesh & blood entered both the earth and heaven physically as you have shown. That was so that we might believe that our spirit indwelt with His Spirit continues to be a living soul after our body dies. Man must have this supernatural manifestation in order to believe that Christ has indeed defeated death for whosoever believes in Him, being born from above. Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, God prepared the body of flesh & bones with a spirit that gave His body life for Christ to inhabit while clothed in human flesh on this earth. His body was prepared through the Holy Spirit that He was procreated through.

Hello @rwb @keithr

God prepared only a body for the Spirit of His Son to inhabit.

Christ the Son, is/was/is, the Spirit that indwelt the physical body that was conceived in Mary's womb.

This is CRUCIAL = God did not create a spirit for Jesus = REPEAT = God did not create a spirit for the LORD

The WORD was and is HIS own Spirit from Eternity.

Thus we SEE this in Revelation 19:11-13

Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True.
With righteousness He judges and wages war.
He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows.
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God = same as BEFORE HE came to earth.

 

[rwb]

Hello @rwb,

God prepared a body for the Spirit of His Son to inhabit.

Christ the Son, is/was/is, the Spirit that indwelt the physical body that was conceived in Mary's womb.

This is CRUCIAL = God did not create a spirit for Jesus = REPEAT = God did not create a spirit for the LORD

The WORD was and is HIS own Spirit from Eternity.

Thus we SEE this in Revelation 19:11-13

Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True.
With righteousness He judges and wages war.
He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows.
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God = same as BEFORE HE came to earth.

To be fully human Christ would be born with a body and a spirit to give His body physical life which would make Him a living soul like every other human being. That which is unique to Christ alone was being conceived by the Holy Spirit, which none others are, and that IMO makes Him also fully God.

 

[ScottA]

But what you do not acknowledge is that Jesus was procreated/conceived by God, the Holy Spirit. Being fully human Jesus was flesh & bones, and He had a spirit that gave His body natural or physical life. Being procreated by the Holy Spirit is what made Jesus unique from every other human being ever to have lived or who will ever live. God, the Holy Spirit did not depart from Jesus when He was born. The Holy Spirit was in Him from birth, and in death it was through the power of the Holy Spirit that Christ's spirit ascended up to the Father in heaven, while His dead corpse was placed in the tomb.

That is not an accurate understanding of what actually occurred.

It is true that no man procreated to conceive Jesus. But the error and misunderstanding then is to assume that the Holy Spirit did. He did not.

On the contrary, what actually occurred is equally true of all who are born of women--as children we are rather a gift from God, not a gift from our worldly, fleshly father. In other words, we are all appointed to life in this world, while only the chosen are elected to be born of the Spirit. So, nothing and no one is actually organic as it would seem--but we all were instead "spoken" into existence.

As such, all are in a sense fathered by the Holy Spirit as all are "created" by the Holy Spirit. The difference then, is that those fathered by the flesh are not born of the spirit, but are born of the flesh--meaning dead, and by nature, mere "elements" of this "created" world. Such is life below--which is not life at all according to the Spirit, because that is not birth by the Spirit but rather a form of animation that falls short of life according to God. Life according to God is only life by being born of the spirit of God. Thus, to be naturally born "by" God, is not the same as being born "of" God.

As such, Jesus (as with all born of women) was first born of the flesh, firstly appointed merely to the would-be life form of creation to animation...after which the spirit of God (the Holy Spirit) descended upon Him, at which point He was both from below and also from above, born of both woman and of God, firstfruits of many to follow.

 

[David in NJ]

To be fully human Christ would be born with a body and a spirit to give His body physical life which would make Him a living soul like every other human being. That which is unique to Christ alone was being conceived by the Holy Spirit, which none others are, and that IMO makes Him also fully God.

Only the physical body was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit/Soul of the Son always existed = "In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God."

Count to THREE and you can SEE that there is more then one PERSON creating thee
Genesis 1:26 - Then ELOHIM(Plural) said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness

Ezekiel 18:4 - “Behold, all souls are Mine(the WORD), The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine;

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

*** IMPORTANT *** = The FATHER did not create the WORD = The WORD created all things

 

[rwb]

Only the physical body was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit/Soul of the Son always existed = "In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God."

Count to THREE and you can SEE that there is more then one PERSON creating thee
Genesis 1:26 - Then ELOHIM(Plural) said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness

Ezekiel 18:4 - “Behold, all souls are Mine/the WORD; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine;

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

*** IMPORTANT *** = The FATHER did not create the WORD = The WORD created all things

Ok, I get what you're saying, and I don't disagree with it. I'm thinking that the physical body of Christ, like all human beings must have both natural body of flesh and a natural spirit like all mankind to be fully human. But I think you're right because I agree that He always existed via Spirit and that is why He is the Creator of all. Thanks

 

[David in NJ]

Ok, I get what you're saying, and I don't disagree with it. I'm thinking that the physical body of Christ, like all human beings must have both natural body of flesh and a natural spirit like all mankind to be fully human. But I think you're right because I agree that He always existed via Spirit and that is why He is the Creator of all. Thanks

We Agree = Philippians 2:5-8

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation,
and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

NOTICE = it says "took upon HIM" = HE took on the body that was prepared for HIM, which was as a Man/Servant unto His FATHER

When HE/the WORD, left Heaven, HE abandonned(temporarily) HIS Eternal Glory which HE placed into HIS Father's Hand.

And yet, we SEE that even when HE walked this earth HE says: John 10:14-18

I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
17“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
18No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself.
I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

 

[keithr]

But what you do not acknowledge is that Jesus was procreated/conceived by God, the Holy Spirit.

That's wrong - I do acknowledge that Mary became pregnant by God's Holy Spirit. In post #461 I wrote, "God made Mary pregnant".

God, the Holy Spirit did not depart from Jesus when He was born. The Holy Spirit was in Him from birth,

Really? I thought the Holy Spirit only came upon Jesus at his baptism - John 1:32 (WEB):

(32) John testified, saying, “I have seen the Spirit descending like a dove out of heaven, and it remained on him.​

Then again, the angel said in Luke 1:15 (WEB):

(15) For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and he will drink no wine nor strong drink. He will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb.​

and in death it was through the power of the Holy Spirit that Christ's spirit ascended up to the Father in heaven, while His dead corpse was placed in the tomb.

It was not until about seven weeks after his resurrection that Jesus ascended to be with the Father - John 20:17 (WEB):

(17) Jesus said to her, “Don’t hold me, for I haven’t yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”​

Having both natural human life made Christ fully man, and the Holy Spirit in Him is what gave Him supernatural powers and is why He is the God/Man. Fully human being, but without sin, and fully God, the Creator of all.

Having God's Holy Spirit in you does not make you fully God! Luke 1:41 (WEB):

(41) When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.​

So was Elizabeth fully God? I don't think so! Neither were all the disciples at Pentecost, when they were filled with the Holy Spirit, fully God.

Likewise, did Paul think he and Timothy were fully God when he wrote, 2 Timothy 1:14 (WEB):

(14) That good thing which was committed to you, guard through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.​

 

[amigo de christo]

keithr said: He was not at that point a spirit being with a spirit body, merely operating a seperate human body; his only existence was as a man. = This is false keithr.


This is TRUE = Hebrews 10:5-7
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

And the WORD became flesh .
The LIFE was manifested and we have seen it .
That which was FROM the beginning . Yes indeed my friend .
Hit those trenches and continue to point to Christ and all biblical truth .

 

[amigo de christo]

Hello @rwb @keithr

God prepared only a body for the Spirit of His Son to inhabit.

Christ the Son, is/was/is, the Spirit that indwelt the physical body that was conceived in Mary's womb.

This is CRUCIAL = God did not create a spirit for Jesus = REPEAT = God did not create a spirit for the LORD

The WORD was and is HIS own Spirit from Eternity.

Thus we SEE this in Revelation 19:11-13

Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True.
With righteousness He judges and wages war.
He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows.
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God = same as BEFORE HE came to earth.

That IS CRUCIAL INDEED . so let that line get repeated .
GOD did NOT create A SPIRIT FOR JESUS , REPEAT , GOD DID NOT create a SPIRIT for the LORD .
GOD did not create himself , His word , His Spirit . HE always was .
The only thing prepared for THE WORD was a body . Repeat , THE WORD BECAME FLESH .
Concerning the SPIRIT . Let us examine JESUS own words when talking to the desciples .
WHen talking about THIS SPIRIT JESUS would send unto them , HE said
HE IS WITH YOU and shall be IN YOU . HE IS WITH YOU and shall BE IN YOU .
Jesus was telling them it was necessary for HIM to go away .
For IF i go not away the comforter will not come . Notice HE says IT WAS WITH THEM
and shall be IN THEM .
THEN Notice HE said I Will send the comforter .
THEN notice HE says I WILL not leave you comfortless , I WILL COME unto you .
YEAH . exactly .
Then notice HE says ME and MY FATHER will come and make OUR abode .
Exactly david . GOD IS HIS WORD , GOD IS HIS SPIRIT . HIS WORD IS HIS SPIRIT and etc . Yep .

 

[amigo de christo]

Only the physical body was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit/Soul of the Son always existed = "In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God."

Count to THREE and you can SEE that there is more then one PERSON creating thee
Genesis 1:26 - Then ELOHIM(Plural) said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness

Ezekiel 18:4 - “Behold, all souls are Mine(the WORD), The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine;

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

*** IMPORTANT *** = The FATHER did not create the WORD = The WORD created all things

Important . The FATHER DID NOT CREATE the WORD , The WORD created all things .
Yep . God is life , His spirit is life , His word is life . God is Truth , His Spirit is truth , His word is truth .
God spoke . That is how HE created . GOD IS HIS WORD .

 

[David in NJ]

That IS CRUCIAL INDEED . so let that line get repeated .
GOD did NOT create A SPIRIT FOR JESUS , REPEAT , GOD DID NOT create a SPIRIT for the LORD .
GOD did not create himself , His word , His Spirit . HE always was .
The only thing prepared for THE WORD was a body . Repeat , THE WORD BECAME FLESH .
Concerning the SPIRIT . Let us examine JESUS own words when talking to the desciples .
WHen talking about THIS SPIRIT JESUS would send unto them , HE said
HE IS WITH YOU and shall be IN YOU . HE IS WITH YOU and shall BE IN YOU .
Jesus was telling them it was necessary for HIM to go away .
For IF i go not away the comforter will not come . Notice HE says IT WAS WITH THEM
and shall be IN THEM .
THEN Notice HE said I Will send the comforter .
THEN notice HE says I WILL not leave you comfortless , I WILL COME unto you .
YEAH . exactly .
Then notice HE says ME and MY FATHER will come and make OUR abode .
Exactly david . GOD IS HIS WORD , GOD IS HIS SPIRIT . HIS WORD IS HIS SPIRIT and etc . Yep .

YES, my Brother, what you posted is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to Knowing God

Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.
And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the Glory which I had with You before the world was.
John ch17

 

[David in NJ]

That is not an accurate understanding of what actually occurred.

It is true that no man procreated to conceive Jesus. But the error and misunderstanding then is to assume that the Holy Spirit did. He did not.

On the contrary, what actually occurred is equally true of all who are born of women--as children we are rather a gift from God, not a gift from our worldly, fleshly father. In other words, we are all appointed to life in this world, while only the chosen are elected to be born of the Spirit. So, nothing and no one is actually organic as it would seem--but we all were instead "spoken" into existence.

As such, all are in a sense fathered by the Holy Spirit as all are "created" by the Holy Spirit. The difference then, is that those fathered by the flesh are not born of the spirit, but are born of the flesh--meaning dead, and by nature, mere "elements" of this "created" world. Such is life below--which is not life at all according to the Spirit, because that is not birth by the Spirit but rather a form of animation that falls short of life according to God. Life according to God is only life by being born of the spirit of God. Thus, to be naturally born "by" God, is not the same as being born "of" God.

As such, Jesus (as with all born of women) was first born of the flesh, firstly appointed merely to the would-be life form of creation to animation...after which the spirit of God (the Holy Spirit) descended upon Him, at which point He was both from below and also from above, born of both woman and of God, firstfruits of many to follow.

Be careful @ScottA

IMPORTANT TRUTH = JESUS was not 'born again' by the Spirit of God.

To be 'born again' means you were first born in sin and dead to the Spirit of God.

JESUS was never dead in sin.

 

[ScottA]

Be careful @ScottA

IMPORTANT TRUTH = JESUS was not 'born again' by the Spirit of God.

To be 'born again' means you were first born in sin and dead to the Spirit of God.

JESUS was never dead in sin.

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin..." 2 Corinthians 5:21

For which He suffered death.

 

[David in NJ]

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin..." 2 Corinthians 5:21

For which He suffered death.

And what exactly does 2 Corinthians 5:21 mean?

EXACT PERFECT FLAWLESS TRUTH:

a.) "HE knew no sin" = HE Remained SINLESS = "the spotless Lamb that takes away the sins of the world" = Hebrews 9:14

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


b.) "to be sin" = on the Cross HE bore our sins = NOT His sin for HE had NO sin = HE bore our sins = Isaiah 53:12

Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.

 

[amigo de christo]

Be careful @ScottA

IMPORTANT TRUTH = JESUS was not 'born again' by the Spirit of God.

To be 'born again' means you were first born in sin and dead to the Spirit of God.

JESUS was never dead in sin.

Sound it out my friend . Due to sie religoin to unite all religoins
the lie had to be brought in , in order to simply make JESUS as but a man , another prophet , just another way to GOD .
SEE IF JESUS ACTUALLY IS THE WORD OF GOD and GOD IS HIS WORD . THERE CAN BE NO UNITY amongst the religoins .
Everyones prophet must be equal and seen as another path to GOD . YOU SOUND IT OUT MY FRIEND .
The lambs gonna CLING TO CHRIST , TO GOD .

 

[amigo de christo]

And what exactly does 2 Corinthians 5:21 mean?

EXACT PERFECT FLAWLESS TRUTH:

a.) "HE knew no sin" = HE Remained SINLESS = "the spotless Lamb that takes away the sins of the world" = Hebrews 9:14

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


b.) "to be sin" = on the Cross HE bore our sins = NOT His sin for HE had NO sin = HE bore our sins = Isaiah 53:12

Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.

SOUND IT OUT DAVID . To the last and final breath my friend .

 

[ScottA]

And what exactly does 2 Corinthians 5:21 mean?

EXACT PERFECT FLAWLESS TRUTH:

a.) "HE knew no sin" = HE Remained SINLESS = "the spotless Lamb that takes away the sins of the world" = Hebrews 9:14

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


b.) "to be sin" = on the Cross HE bore our sins = NOT His sin for HE had NO sin = HE bore our sins = Isaiah 53:12

Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.

You can attempt to rationalize that Jesus did not take on "the form of a bondservant, and come in the likeness of men", but it isn't so.

The problem with such an hypothesis is that the sentence of death for sin was upon mankind-- meaning He had to be a man of that kind. That, by definition, is what He took upon Himself. Which qualified Him to fulfill the sentence of death; and then also being born of God ("firstfruits"--meaning born again) He was able to rise from the dead. These are the very components of our salvation.