If Baptism could save then there is no need for the shed Blood of Jesus.

[CadyandZoe]

You can be forgiven for a particular sin, but still be an active sinner.

So, to not be an active sinner, one must have their sins remitted.

This is how the name of Jesus in the water trumps our sins en masse.

Your view is not according to the Bible, as I explained earlier. Forgiveness of sins took place at the cross as it is written in the New Testament. Baptism has nothing to do with forgiveness. Baptism is the rite of becoming a disciple.

Bear in mind, the term "Baptize" comes from the Greek word "baptizo", which literally means "immerse." When one is baptized, he or she agrees to be "immersed" in the teaching of the baptizer. In our case, those of us who have been baptized (immersed) into Christ, agreed to study and follow his teaching. Those who are baptized in his name become his disciples.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Lol people who go to church are "christian". So anyone who goes to church should have the holy spirit since they sitting in church worshipping the Lord. That's what we Christians do right. Repent go to Jesus and receive the holy spirit after. I think one only becomes fully holy thru obedience to God. We aren't obedient because we are righteous and holy though. We are obedient because we love God the father and want to please him. People who are in Baptism water are saying they want God in their life. Simple as that. Baptism is also something that is apart of the church and things they do by it. Etc. It does not make one purified unless until we come perfect thru obedience.

I was speaking of the Biblical meaning of baptism and confession.

 

[Jennifera198337]

I was speaking of the Biblical meaning of baptism and confession.

Ok. Sorry. Lol

 

[DaChaser]

If Baptism could save then there is no need for the shed Blood of Jesus.

Saved by Death and resurrection of Yahweh Jesus, period!

 

[Jennifera198337]

Saved by Death and resurrection of Yahweh Jesus, period!

We were on the cross with Christ already when he died. Jesus died for all believers. Because we believe we were accepted of him. We are the body of Christ. We were reborn in his body. That's why our spirit unites us back to God because we belong to him already since we are believers

 

[justbyfaith]

Amen! The problem is that you say that out of one side of your mouth and out of the other side of your mouth you say something else.

Col 2:12, Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

How could these workers of iniquity/unbelievers do the will of the Father after they are saved when they did not do the will of the Father in order to become saved? Your theology is all over the place.

Because after they are saved, they get the Holy Spirit.

Doing the will of the Father after we have been saved in order to become saved is salvation by works.

1) it is not in order to become saved;

2) if it is salvation by works, there is apparently a contradiction in scripture. Because we must do the will of the Father or else Jesus will say to us, I never knew you.

The will of the Father is not only to evangelize unbelievers (John 6:39). It is also that we might be sanctified (1 Thessalonians 4:3) and that we give thanks in everything (1 Thessalonians 5:18).

That makes no sense. Obedience after we have been saved is works. You say that faith is an attitude in which we become obedient to the Father, so you are basically saying that faith "is" an attitude along with obedience/works, then you say we are not saved by obedience, but the attitude. It's faith that saves us. Period. We are saved the very moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

Faith is an attitude of obedience. Just as "faithful" means obedient, so "faith" and "faithfulness" means obedience.

Works salvation is a false and perverted gospel which renders Christ an IN-sufficient Savior.

I don't think I am preaching a works salvation in saying that Jesus will say, I never knew you, to those who work iniquty and who don't do the will of the Father.

First you say that obedience doesn't save us (and obedience is works), yet here you seem to be saying that we are saved by works. Like I said before, your theology is all over the place. "Justified by works" does not mean saved by works. James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

I don't disagree with any of this.

Sounds like an oxymoron. The will of the Father in John 6:40 lines up with saved by grace through faith apart from works.

So does the will of God in 1 Thessalonians 4:3 and 1 Thessalonians 5:18. We are not only justified by grace through faith; we are also sanctified by grace through faith.

I already covered this in post #255.

Not adequately. Your argument was that the kjv is not accurate in its rendition of the scripture in question.

In the long run, I know that I am only going to reach those who do not heap for themselves teachers according to what their itching ears want to hear in diverting to other translations than the kjv.

So then, my appeal is really only to those who understand that the narrow-minded view that the kjv is superior is truly the narrow path that leads to life (Matthew 7:13-14). And while I know that this diminishes my number of converts, at least I know that my converts are going to be genuine believers.

No one who is born of God practices sin.. (1 John 3:9) yet that still does not mean that we are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless 100% of the time. (1 John 1:8-10)

We are not without sin (1 John 1:8).

However, the element of sin can be rendered absolutely dead within us (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it has no say whatsoever over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Also, the Lord is coming back for a glorious church, having neither spot, nor wrinkle, nor any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish (Ephesians 5:27).

 

[Truther]

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

The blood comes when we stand in the waters of baptism calling upon the name of Jesus.


(science tells us water helps blood flow.)
God Bless!

Awesome post. All must see!

 

[Truther]

Your view is not according to the Bible, as I explained earlier. Forgiveness of sins took place at the cross as it is written in the New Testament. Baptism has nothing to do with forgiveness. Baptism is the rite of becoming a disciple.

Bear in mind, the term "Baptize" comes from the Greek word "baptizo", which literally means "immerse." When one is baptized, he or she agrees to be "immersed" in the teaching of the baptizer. In our case, those of us who have been baptized (immersed) into Christ, agreed to study and follow his teaching. Those who are baptized in his name become his disciples.

You just debunked this...


37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[justbyfaith]

There is also "rantizo"...sprinkling...

And it appears that holy scripture teaches that there is regeneration that takes place as the result of it (Ezekiel 36:25-27).

 

[Truther]

There is also "rantizo"...sprinkling...

And it appears that holy scripture teaches that there is regeneration that takes place as the result of it (Ezekiel 36:25-27).

Kinda like "washing of regeneration AND renewing of the Spirit"?

 

[justbyfaith]

Kinda like "washing of regeneration AND renewing of the Spirit"?

Kind of like being given a new heart of flesh in place of that old heart of stone.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You just debunked this...


37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

As I say, the phase "for the remission of sins" doesn't mean "in order that your sins might be forgiven." Peter is actually saying, "Because God has forgiven your sins due to the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, then become his disciple."

Peter is saying, because God has forgiven you, then repent and become a disciple of Jesus Christ. The crowds already understood that the rite of baptism was the initial step in becoming a disciple.

 

[Truther]

As I say, the phase "for the remission of sins" doesn't mean "in order that your sins might be forgiven." Peter is actually saying, "Because God has forgiven your sins due to the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, then become his disciple."

Peter is saying, because God has forgiven you, then repent and become a disciple of Jesus Christ. The crowds already understood that the rite of baptism was the initial step in becoming a disciple.

Repentance=death.

This means "die again".

Not born again.

You need to understand something now....

The tabernacle worship consisted of these things....Brazen Altar, brazen Laver,(now enter the tent, holy place) the golden candlesticks, the table of shewbread and the altar of incense.(now enter the holiest of holies).

The brazen altar represented repentance(death) per symbolism.

The brazen laver represents water baptism(washing) per symbolism.

Entering the holy place(priest passed the vail) represents the baptism of the Holy Ghost....Acts 2:38.

Now, if the priest decided to skip washing at the laver, what would have happened to him?...


19 For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat:

20 When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the Lord:

21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not


So, we as N.T. priests MUST NOT skip the water, lest we perish.

This is exactly why Peter said "repent(death) and be baptized(washed) in the name of Jesus FOR THE remission of sins".

 

[GISMYS_7]

Yes to be saved Believe ,confess, repent then obey and be baptized!!!

 

[CadyandZoe]

Repentance=death.

Repentance = change your mind

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yes to be saved Believe ,confess, repent then obey and be baptized!!!

Yes, remember that actualized salvation takes place the day that Jesus calls his followers out of the grave into eternal life. Remember, "Lazarus come forth!!"

 

[GISMYS_7]

Yes, remember that actualized salvation takes place the day that Jesus calls his followers out of the grave into eternal life. Remember, "Lazarus come forth!!"

Those that die as unbelievers do NOT have another chance as they have rejected Jesus and chose eternal hell.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think that in order to believe that Acts of the Apostles 2:38 means that you are to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ because of the remission of sins,

you have to deny the veracity of the kjv.

That opens up a whole new can of worms.

If you can't trust the kjv to be the translation that you can read to get the unadulterated word of the lord, what translation can you trust?

Are educated Greek and Hebrew scholars the only ones who can read their Bibles in the Greek and Hebrew and get God's unadulterated message?

The educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Jesus while the common people heard Him gladly.

I believe that the Lord has preserved His unadulterated message in the kjv.

I would say other versions also; except that I have seen with my own eyes how they have been watered-down, taking out words, phrases, sentences, even entire passages out of the text.

I do not want to be cheated out of something that the Holy Spirit might want to minister to me because I am reading a translation that doesn't contain His word to me in that specific passage. And I think for this reason that those translations cannot be trusted.

I do, however, trust the kjv implicitly;

Because God in His love, Omnipotence, and sovereignty will always preserve for His people in their common language (where the Bible has been translated) a version that will be contended for as being the superior translation that contains God's unadulterated message over and above the watered-down translations; testifying to its superiority through the controversy.

He is not going to force His people to learn another language in order to be able to find His unadulterated message.

He has made the gospel easy and accessible.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Those that die as unbelievers do NOT have another chance as they have rejected Jesus and chose eternal hell.

Yes, I agree. Bear in mind, however, that both John the Baptist and Peter were speaking into a situation in which Israel, as a nation, has not been loyal or faithful to God. Peter want's Israel to know that God forgives Israel for putting the messiah on the cross and that he is willing to offer eternal life to those who repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

When Peter says that Israel has been forgiven, he doesn't mean that Israel has been saved. Salvation is granted to those who repent, confess, and call upon the name of the Lord. Forgiveness, Paul says, is our "entrance" into the grace that we have found.

 

[CadyandZoe]

He has made the gospel easy and accessible.

Of course. Our disagreement centers not on what the passage says, but on what the passage means. Sometimes we inherit an interpretation and never question it. When we encounter a new interpretation our first reaction is to reject it. This is normal and we all do it. But maybe my original interpretation was incorrect. Sometimes I am handed an interpretation that was wrong.

So let me give you an example of what I have in mind. Suppose you encounter a poster at the post office that reads, "Jimmy James Jones wanted for murder." Does the poster mean "Jimmy should be captured so that he might be murdered"? Or does the poster mean, "Jimmy should be captured because he has already murdered someone?"

for murder = in order to be murdered
for murder = because murder has already taken place

See the difference?

The poster advises the reader to be on the look out for Jimmy James because he has already murdered someone and needs to be brought to justice.

Now consider Peter's statement in light of the previous example.

38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the
gift of the Holy Spirit.

for the forgiveness = in order to be forgiven
for the forgiveness = because forgiveness is already taken place