If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?

[APAK]

So you're just going to look for Scripture that supports 'your'... idea?

What about Scripture that supports what The Father and His Son and His Apostles and prophets have actually said about it?

Matt 26:28-29
28 For this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom.
KJV

Where is that future event written to happen ON EARTH? In Scripture like Isaiah 25:5-9; Matthew 13:39-43 as it is the "tares" that are removed and burned, Christ's elect remain on the earth. Also Revelation 7:17 about those John is shown standing next to Christ's throne with Jesus leading them to living fountains of waters, a DIRECT reference to the return of God's River back to this earth per Ezekiel 47 and Revelation 22. That River was originally upon this earth, per Genesis 2, as it flowed out of God's Garden of Eden to feed four other... rivers upon this earth, two of which can still be found on earth today (Euphrates and Tigris or Hiddekel).

Even Psalms 2 is a direct reference to The Father setting Christ upon Mount Zion in Jerusalem on earth, pointing to His future reign with the prophesied "rod of iron". Even Psalms 110 declares Christ's future rule in the 'midst' of His enemies, meaning His reign with that rod of iron UPON this earth with His elect.

Isaiah 9 points directly to Christ's future reign UPON this earth sitting upon the throne of David. David's throne is NOT a Heavenly throne, it is an EARTHLY THRONE, and Jesus is to inherit it when He comes.

Zechariah 9:9 points to Christ's 1st coming meek as a Lamb to be slain. Zechariah 9:10 points to the battle bow being cut off (ended), with Christ taking reign over the whole earth (which is still future to us).

I could keep going and going about these Scripture evidences for Christ's future LITERAL reign upon this earth over all nations, but that would be spoon-feeding the lazy who refuse to open up God's written Word for themselves in Bible study.

Hey Davy. I don't think I 've discussed scripture with you that much before. And this is one way we can refine and establish yours and my conclusions concerning the end of this age and into the new heaven and earth....I do need another sword to sharpen my own with...

Anyway I see your key passage of Matt 26:28-29. and you have highlighted the key area of contention.

In verse 28, the blood of Christ is given to share and reinforce the New Covenant, since his resurrection, for all to drink it, and into the next age to come, after 70AD, that is also our present age. The Kingdom of the Father has come and is active today in the hands of his Son. We are believers, as for previous generations, because we 'drank' this shed blood of Christ. We are in his Kingdom today as lights of the Kingdom on this earth. The Kingdom is active in both states/places. It is being ruled by the Son from heaven and is is also happening on this earth, through us.

Now in verse 29, Christ is then saying he will not truly experience the fruits of his sacrifice and of his shed blood until he and all believers are together, at the wedding or reunion. We are resurrected at his second coming. We, all together with Christ, shall, for the FIRST time experience the new life, the new heaven and earth called the Kingdom of his Father, who is also our Father.

This will be the time when the Son, our Christ will turn over his reign of the present Kingdom back to his Father.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[pittsburghjoe]

JESUS said to seek The Kingdom ...not wait for one on His Return:

Matthew 6:33-34
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

 

[Davy]

Hey Davy. I don't think I 've discussed scripture with you that much before. And this is one way we can refine and establish yours and my conclusions concerning the end of this age and into the new heaven and earth....I do need another sword to sharpen my own with...

Anyway I see your key passage of Matt 26:28-29. and you have highlighted the key area of contention.

In verse 28, the blood of Christ is given to share and reinforce the New Covenant, since his resurrection, for all to drink it, and into the next age to come, after 70AD, that is also our present age. The Kingdom of the Father has come and is active today in the hands of his Son. We are believers, as for previous generations, because we 'drank' this shed blood of Christ. We are in his Kingdom today as lights of the Kingdom on this earth. The Kingdom is active in both states/places. It is being ruled by the Son from heaven and is is also happening on this earth, through us.

All that is true for today, BUT in the Spiritual sense only. The fact still stands that Scripture declares a LITERAL Kingdom yet to come here on earth, with Christ and His elect reigning over all nations with the "rod of iron". That, has NOT happened yet, and nor are you ever going to convince me or any other devout Bible believing Christian that it has already happened, especially Christian brethren in countries in the middle east that are living under Islamic oppression, or even the same in Communist nations today.

So I'm not open to religious philosophy from the minds of college professors who pretty much treat Christianity like it's any other religion.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

To claim there is Millennium Reign after His Return is to say He isn't a King now.

1 Timothy 6:15
Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

 

[APAK]

All that is true for today, BUT in the Spiritual sense only. The fact still stands that Scripture declares a LITERAL Kingdom yet to come here on earth, with Christ and His elect reigning over all nations with the "rod of iron". That, has NOT happened yet, and nor are you ever going to convince me or any other devout Bible believing Christian that it has already happened, especially Christian brethren in countries in the middle east that are living under Islamic oppression, or even the same in Communist nations today.

So I'm not open to religious philosophy from the minds of college professors who pretty much treat Christianity like it's any other religion.

It's happening now and give it a little more time if you really want to see the the 'hammer coming down,' and feel the birth pangs and the new birth. Evil has not reached its zenith yet during Christ's current reign. There's going to be a real true World War in the not so distant future...when 'all hell breaks' loose....before the Kingdom will be returned from the Son back to the Father....

 

[pittsburghjoe]

It's happening now and give it a little more time if you really want to see the the 'hammer coming down,' and feel the birth pangs and the new birth. Evil has not reached its zenith yet during Christ's current reign. There's going to be a real true World War in the not so distant future...when 'all hell breaks' loose....before the Kingdom will be returned from the Son back to the Father....

i think the Jews get woken up first:

Romans 11:15
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Matthew 23:39
For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

[APAK]

i think the Jews get woken up first:

Romans 11:15
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Matthew 23:39
For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

I may differ in meaning for Romans 11:15 that you...I believe the few ethnic Israelites that survived their tribulation in the 1st century and those of centuries before them already living in the nations, they or their descendants have been grafted or coming back into the vine/tree as new (natural branches) believers in Christ since Pentecost and even today..

And in Matthew I cannot wait to say that he, my Lord, Messiah, comes to me and others in the name of his Father, the LORD, and ours..in the new heaven and earth.

 

[bbyrd009]

free beer tomorrow?

 

[pittsburghjoe]

You can enter The Kingdom now.

Parable of Two Sons

Matthew 21:28-32
But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.

And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.

Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

The Goal is to be a Citizen of The Kingdom ...an Ambassador to The KING.

Philippians 3:20
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[pittsburghjoe]

I may differ in meaning for Romans 11:15 that you...I believe the few ethnic Israelites that survived their tribulation in the 1st century and those of centuries before them already living in the nations, they or their descendants have been grafted or coming back into the vine/tree as new (natural branches) believers in Christ since Pentecost and even today..

And in Matthew I cannot wait to say that he, my Lord, Messiah, comes to me and others in the name of his Father, the LORD, and ours..in the new heaven and earth.

Why do we assume the Apostles were asking JESUS about His second coming in the Olivet Discourse when they didn't even know He was going anywhere at that point (Matthew 24:3, Mark 13:4, Luke 21:7)?

"when will these things be" What things? The Temple being destroyed.

Jump to 38:53 if it doesn't already:

 

[APAK]

Why do we assume the Apostles were asking JESUS about His second coming in the Olivet Discourse when they didn't even know He was going anywhere at that point (Matthew 24:3, Mark 13:4, Luke 21:7)?

"when will these things be" What things? The Temple being destroyed.

Jump to 38:53 if it doesn't already:

Well in Matt 24:3 I see there is an assumption to to make....in Mark and Luke not so much as they seem to be just focusing on the Temple being destroyed in the 'near' future...
let me see the video...and I'll get back with you.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

i think nero had a 42 month period and then a second 42 month period for the evil papacy happened, but this 42 months was in prophetic years. 1,260 years.

the gog and magog thing really bothers me, could it have been world war 2? or is that the next thing we are going to see happen?

The RCC talk of Popes being a Red Pope not to mention and a White Pope and also a Black Pope ?
Now such has nothing to do with the colour of their skin, I just had to put that in their because of the idiocy of people nowadays.
But it has to do with what Pope that they are ? what type of Pope they representing.

The black Pope maybe a Jesuit like Pope Frances and they wear Black and push towards a worldly power barrow.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Does Revelation 20:4-6 tell us there are two Millennium Reigns? Did the mark of the beast happen in the first one? Are we the priests in the second one?

Do the Martyrs and priests of Revelation 20 spiritually Reign with CHRIST a thousand years by being judges and spreading The Gospel until Satan is loosed?

 

[Curtis]

If JESUS is going to go and prepare a place for us, why would The Kingdom remain here?

John 14:2-3
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.​

People that overcome ...doesn't that mean now?

Revelation 3:12​

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Is the Judgment by JESUS to end Jerusalem tell us that He is Reigning over The House of Jacob from Mount Zion (GOD'S Kingdom) as a King (Luke 19:41-44)? "and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation."

If the Reborn are Kingdom Ambassadors, why are we waiting for a physical Kingdom like the Jews are? They are waiting for a Messianic Age, are we also or is LORD JESUS CHRIST Reigning right now?

Check out “amillennial eschatology”. What do people think is going on when they become Reborn? i’ll tell you, He becomes our KING.

Jews still haven’t figured out that GOD’S Kingdom isn’t physical. You become Reborn to enter it. You become Reborn for a Relationship with GOD.

very short video:

What Anointed King matches to the King in Psalm 72? What Jewish King asks for prayers continually besides the Ultimate King (Psa 72:15)? "prayer also shall be made for him continually; and daily shall he be praised."

There are two visits of Jesus to the earth - with His first coming, the kingdom was present and was spiritual- at His second coming He sets up His eternal kingdom on earth.

Jesus said at the last supper:

Luke 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

The spiritual kingdom was already present when Jesus spoke of the future kingdom to come.

As Jesus was about to ascend, the apostles, who knew Messiah was prophesied to set up an earthly kingdom, asked Him if He was going to set up that kingdom right away - Jesus answered them:

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Christ’s future literal earthly and eternal kingdom in Israel is yet to come, per Acts 1, above, and was prophesied in both Old Testament and New Testament prophecies:

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.


Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:


Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall beno end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


Jeremiah 23:5-6 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, that I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; a King shall reign and prosper, and execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely; now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS”

In Acts 1 Jesus literally ascends bodily and visibly from Mount Olive, and the angel said this same Jesus will return in like manner as you have seen Him leave - meaning His literal return bodily and visibly back to Mount Olive:

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Act 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Zechariah 14:5 is when Jesus fulfills the Acts 1 prophecy, and returns to Mount Olive with all the saints with Him - where He then remains, and the nations such as Egypt come into the gates of Jerusalem to worship Jesus in Zechariah14:16-19, who will be literally and bodily sitting on the throne of David, forever, as prophesied by the old and New Testament:

To review: the kingdom is spiritual now, but will be a literal and physical kingdom on earth, when Jesus returns.

The millennial reign is not a temporary reign - the millennium is when Satan is bound for a thousand years at the start of Jesus’ eternal kingdom, ruling from Jerusalem, on the throne of David, just as the prophecies say will happen.

BTW you answered your own question when you cited Revelation 3:12.

In Revelation 21, The New Jerusalem which is above, descends to earth to old Jerusalem, and God and the lamb dwell in it with men forever, and Jesus says this about that city in Revelation 3:12:

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

That is obviously yet in the future.

Maranatha

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Luke 22:18
"For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come."

"come" = to become known. "until the kingdom of God shall" become known.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

There are two visits of Jesus to the earth - with His first coming, the kingdom was present and was spiritual- at His second coming He sets up His eternal kingdom on earth.

Jesus said at the last supper:

Luke 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

The spiritual kingdom was already present when Jesus spoke of the future kingdom to come.

As Jesus was about to ascend, the apostles, who knew Messiah was prophesied to set up an earthly kingdom, asked Him if He was going to set up that kingdom right away - Jesus answered them:

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Christ’s future literal earthly and eternal kingdom in Israel is yet to come, per Acts 1, above, and was prophesied in both Old Testament and New Testament prophecies:

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.


Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:


Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall beno end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


Jeremiah 23:5-6 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, that I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; a King shall reign and prosper, and execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely; now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS”

In Acts 1 Jesus literally ascends bodily and visibly from Mount Olive, and the angel said this same Jesus will return in like manner as you have seen Him leave - meaning His literal return bodily and visibly back to Mount Olive:

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Act 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Zechariah 14:5 is when Jesus fulfills the Acts 1 prophecy, and returns to Mount Olive with all the saints with Him - where He then remains, and the nations such as Egypt come into the gates of Jerusalem to worship Jesus in Zechariah14:16-19, who will be literally and bodily sitting on the throne of David, forever, as prophesied by the old and New Testament:

To review: the kingdom is spiritual now, but will be a literal and physical kingdom on earth, when Jesus returns.

The millennial reign is not a temporary reign - the millennium is when Satan is bound for a thousand years at the start of Jesus’ eternal kingdom, ruling from Jerusalem, on the throne of David, just as the prophecies say will happen.

BTW you answered your own question when you cited Revelation 3:12.

In Revelation 21, The New Jerusalem which is above, descends to earth to old Jerusalem, and God and the lamb dwell in it with men forever, and Jesus says this about that city in Revelation 3:12:

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

That is obviously yet in the future.

Maranatha

That's just speculation some men's philosophy has taught you, and goes against what God's Word reveals about this world, and His Kingdom to come in the world to come.

Nor is it about who is in control, because God also showing in His Word that He controls Satan too! Satan cannot do anything without God's permission. God showed in His Word that He uses Satan as a punishing rod upon the rebellious. You simply haven't done enough Bible study to know this.

If you can handle 15-20 min of video start watching this one at 12:42

 

[bbyrd009]

The fact still stands that Scripture declares a LITERAL Kingdom yet to come here on earth, with Christ and His elect reigning over all nations with the "rod of iron". That, has NOT happened yet

wisdom is hidden from the wise though eh

 

[bbyrd009]

That is obviously yet in the future

well, obviously for you, sure

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Mark 1:15 “This is the time of fulfillment. The kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”
The Call of the first Disciples.

Mark 9:1 He also said to them, “Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power.”

Col 1:13 He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,

1 Thess 2:12 exhorting and encouraging you and insisting that you conduct yourselves as worthy of the God who calls you into his kingdom and glory.

Hebrews 12:28 Therefore, we who are receiving the unshakable kingdom should have gratitude, with which we should offer worship pleasing to God in reverence and awe.