If you found you were in the wrong faith, would you change?

[Desire Of All Nations]

It is easy to look back and see the proper path my brother, but with some heavy contemplation, I would imagine I would have likely considered Jesus an apostate. I know that most of us would have (just as we did in fact), because the leaders of the faith rejected him. Would have been tough for sure.

It's not that tough actually. If the Jews lived according to Moses' writings like they were supposed to, they could've known that Jesus was who He claimed to be. As Jesus stated in Jhn 5:45-46, there was absolutely no excuse for them to reject Him since Moses prophesied of Him and told the people to listen to Him.

The reason why so many ppl rejected Him is because the pride that they had in their traditions superseded keeping God's commandments in importance(not unlike the many "Christians" today who claim that commandment-keeping has no part in Christianity). It also didn't help that they developed beliefs about the Messiah that didn't exist in the scriptures.

For example, Jhn 7:27, the Jews said that no one was supposed to know where the Messiah came from, as if He was just supposed to appear out of thin air. But that isn't found in any of the messianic prophecies. Mic. 5:2 specifically says the Messiah was supposed to be born in Bethlehem of Judah, and Isa. 9:1-2 says the Messiah would be raised as a Nazarene. The scriptures literally told them where the Messiah was supposed to come from so they could be absolutely sure about that individual's identity.

 

[RedFan]

Mic. 5:2 specifically says the Messiah was supposed to be born in Bethlehem of Judah, and Isa. 9:1-2 says the Messiah would be raised as a Nazarene. The scriptures literally told them where the Messiah was supposed to come from so they could be absolutely sure about that individual's identity.

You've lost me, Desire Of All Nations. How does prophecy about where the Messiah will be born and where he will be raised allow these Jews to be "absolutely sure" that Jesus -- out of all the Bethlehemites/Nazarenes then walking the planet or who ever would walk the planet -- was the Messiah?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Thanks Ron for asking sir, it is found at Luke 22:28-30. This new covenant went into force on Pentecost of 33CE, and is still binding on God's people today. It is actually made with the anointed Christians, but all Christians are subject to the rules and regulations of that covenant, which are recorded for us throughout the Greek Scriptures Ron. We (Jehovah's witnesses) refer to it as the Law of the Christ Gal 6:2

So then what was the old covenant?

also how do you decide this was a covenant when nothing implies it is a covenant.

But your 144,000 is a myth. Even the watchtower has had to remove legions of the "anointed" posthumously because other wise we would have close to 250,000.

 

[ScottA]

There are well over 10,000 faiths that claim to be Christian Scott. While it would be nice that God accepts all faiths, the Bible quite clearly states that there is only one faith, since the Bible concludes that false christs will arise and deceive many, then I certainly will not argue against it. I have already concluded that there is a wrong faith sir. Frankly I thought that was understood, but then again my "Christian" neighbors fully knew and conveyed to me the evils of halloween, yet were well known in the community for the treats they gave to the trick or treators, so perhaps there are many who believe you can worship God anyway you desire and He will accept it.

I was only asking to have you perhaps elaborate upon your Original Post as to what you considered that "wrong faith" to be.

Sounds as though you were referring to those thousands of other faiths in an appeal to have each examine what they actually believe compared to the one faith that has proven over time to be an exception to the many that are in error. Would you say it differently, or is that an accurate assessment?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Interesting point. John 9:22 relates that the parents of the blind man whose sight Jesus had restored “were afraid of the Jews; for the Jews had already agreed that anyone who confessed Jesus to be the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue.” A similar reference occurs later, in John 12:42, right after Jesus’ final entry into Jerusalem.

(I tend to doubt that Jesus’ following was really so large at the time this blind man got his sight that the Jewish authorities would have passed such a decree -- but that's just me.)

The reason that Jesus was put to death by the jews is because the majority of the jews went along with the point of view the Pharisees had concerning the scriptures. So the majority of the jews didn't believe Jesus to be the Messiah because the Pharisees said that he wasn't, that Jesus was a criminal, a blasphemer, an a demonic person.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Like what?

I know some were made obsolete, but completely new laws? Explain.

Many were carried over Ferris, but not participating in war was new 2 Cor 10:3,4; meeting together regularly was new Heb 10:3,4. Attending a different passover was new Luke 22:19; 1 Cor 5:7; the golden rule was new with a new explanation of who is your neighbor Luke 10:36; Gal 6:10. And the main one is our assignment Mat 28:19,20, the new sacrifice we make as Christians.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Convince me Jesus didn't rise from the dead and I would abandon Christianity.

But there have been many intelectuals who have tried to do this, none can make a reasonable case.
Look at Willial lane Craigs debates with atheists about the resurrection or coldcasechristianity etc etc etc.
The logical evidence is Jesus rose from the dead.

I and Paul agree sir 1 Cor 15:32

 

[Robert Gwin]

It was easy for prostitutes and tax collectors to embrace the forgiveness and acceptance of Jesus and abandon the covenant that condemned them. But Jesus also speaks about those who believed Moses and how that alone would equip them to believe in Jesus:

"27‘Then I beg you, father,’ he said, ‘send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also end up in this place of torment.’29But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let your brothers listen to them.’30‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone is sent to them from the dead, they will repent.’

31Then Abraham said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’ ” Luke 16:27-31​

I think that you are looking at it from a different perspective Ferris. The point I was making was how would you feel to experience a complete change by the leadership of your faith, would you embrace it or reject it. God's people had a radical change instituted by what appeared to be an apostate. That would be a tremendous shock to anyone who was strong in their faith, especially since most of us do not like change, and that even includes animals.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I think so. But I understand why someone would see how seemingly contrary to the law everything about Jesus was. But as Jesus suggested, if a person listened to Moses and the prophets they would be persuaded to repent at the teaching about a risen Jesus. And I think I would have been a follower of God through Moses and the prophets if I had been alive during that time.

Historical fact shows that most of God's covenanted people rejected him, and I personally believe if it happened now it would be the same way. I actually believe I would have believed he was a criminal as well, but it is something we don't really contemplate as fulfilled prophecy is always easier to see when looking back on it.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Our divisions about 'how to worship God' are what has ruined Christianity. When Christianity is thought to be how you are to properly 'have church' you'll miss the Christ in Christianity. You will never know him.

Few do sir. Of course that was prophesied Mat 7:13,14

 

[Robert Gwin]

Oh I agree that the majority of the jews disbelieved Jesus and his apostles and disciples because the religious leaders were against them. The scriptures are very clear that the majority of the Jews feared the religious leaders. But those scriptures were written for our instruction to not be like them. So people should believe the truth no matter what the religious leaders of today believe and teach if what they teach isn't accurate. Especially since the scriptures show that a falling away of the truth would happen after Jesus and the apostles went away.

Amen to that bro! Remember those "religious leaders" was the leaders of our faith at the time. Our religious leaders today hold the same amount of sway. We must always keep in mind whom we serve, we will obey our spiritual leaders, but not if they direct us to do something contrary to God Acts 5:29

 

[Robert Gwin]

Absolutely. I've got the scars.

Tell us about it Barn

 

[Robert Gwin]

It's not that tough actually. If the Jews lived according to Moses' writings like they were supposed to, they could've known that Jesus was who He claimed to be. As Jesus stated in Jhn 5:45-46, there was absolutely no excuse for them to reject Him since Moses prophesied of Him and told the people to listen to Him.

The reason why so many ppl rejected Him is because the pride that they had in their traditions superseded keeping God's commandments in importance(not unlike the many "Christians" today who claim that commandment-keeping has no part in Christianity). It also didn't help that they developed beliefs about the Messiah that didn't exist in the scriptures.

For example, Jhn 7:27, the Jews said that no one was supposed to know where the Messiah came from, as if He was just supposed to appear out of thin air. But that isn't found in any of the messianic prophecies. Mic. 5:2 specifically says the Messiah was supposed to be born in Bethlehem of Judah, and Isa. 9:1-2 says the Messiah would be raised as a Nazarene. The scriptures literally told them where the Messiah was supposed to come from so they could be absolutely sure about that individual's identity.

For whatever reason we attribute to his rejection sir, the historical fact is that the vast majority of God's people rejected the Messiah, so much so that God took the Kingdom away from them. Mat 21:43

 

[Robert Gwin]

So then what was the old covenant?

also how do you decide this was a covenant when nothing implies it is a covenant.

But your 144,000 is a myth. Even the watchtower has had to remove legions of the "anointed" posthumously because other wise we would have close to 250,000.

The 144k is a fact sir, you may believe our interpretation of them is a myth, but they are a Biblical fact. I know you are not ignorant of the Law Covenant, but I apologize if you were unaware of it. Just in case it was a covenant given to the descendants of Abraham through Moses and our acceptance of it is recorded for us at Exodus 19:8

 

[Pearl]

I'm not sure about what 'the wrong faith' consists of. I changed from CoE to a New Testament church. I know Catholics who left the CC to join the same NT church and I know Christians who used to be Muslim or Hindu. If the faith you belong to doesn't teach bible truths then i would advise finding one that does.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I was only asking to have you perhaps elaborate upon your Original Post as to what you considered that "wrong faith" to be.

Sounds as though you were referring to those thousands of other faiths in an appeal to have each examine what they actually believe compared to the one faith that has proven over time to be an exception to the many that are in error. Would you say it differently, or is that an accurate assessment?

Yes sir that is accurate, one faith united in worship does not have sects 1 Cor 1:10
Do you believe God requires something from us, yet does not tell us how to accomplish it? Likely you will say no to that, so if that is the case, obviously He identifies His people in the Bible.

 

[ScottA]

Yes sir that is accurate, one faith united in worship does not have sects 1 Cor 1:10
Do you believe God requires something from us, yet does not tell us how to accomplish it? Likely you will say no to that, so if that is the case, obviously He identifies His people in the Bible.

I am not sure I understand your question. If I have perceived it correctly, God gives us what He requires, which by returning it, we return to Him. But do tell me what you are getting at.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Amen to that bro! Remember those "religious leaders" was the leaders of our faith at the time. Our religious leaders today hold the same amount of sway. We must always keep in mind whom we serve, we will obey our spiritual leaders, but not if they direct us to do something contrary to God Acts 5:29

At Acts 5:29 those religious leaders who were trying to command Peter to not preach on the basis of Jesus name while they were the religious leaders of Israel they were the unfaithful religious leaders. Jesus had told the religious leaders this religious organization being the Pharisees, Jesus had told them as a organization that Satan was their Father.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The 144k is a fact sir, you may believe our interpretation of them is a myth, but they are a Biblical fact. I know you are not ignorant of the Law Covenant, but I apologize if you were unaware of it. Just in case it was a covenant given to the descendants of Abraham through Moses and our acceptance of it is recorded for us at Exodus 19:8

The 144,000 from twelve tribes of the sons of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are a fact. The watchtower interpretation of them is what is a lie and designed to keep you from seeing the kingdom of God!

 

[Robert Gwin]

I'm not sure about what 'the wrong faith' consists of. I changed from CoE to a New Testament church. I know Catholics who left the CC to join the same NT church and I know Christians who used to be Muslim or Hindu. If the faith you belong to doesn't teach bible truths then i would advise finding one that does.

Very good advice maam, that would be my recommendation as well. You do not think that God would require something from you and not instruct you on how to do it correct?