"If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

[GEN2REV]

Answer my question.
How were the disciples of Jesus in Luke 23:54-56 already Christians?
How?
They had not believed in the gospel, 1Corinthians 15:1-4!
They could not believe in Jesus' ressurection.
They only believed in Jesus' ressurection when He physically appeared to them.
Even then the gospel was not in force until it was first preached to the Jews in Acts 2.

Jesus' new will and testament was not in force in Luke 23:54-56.
At that time the old covenant law, was still in force.
It ended at Acts chapter 2.

Uh huh. And what of 1 John 2:6?

These people walked just exactly as Jesus walked. Nobody was ever closer to Jesus.

John is referring to followers of Christ. These were followers of Christ. Christian means follower/disciple of Christ.

Good luck with that one.

 

[Jim B]

Answer my question.
How were the disciples of Jesus in Luke 23:54-56 already Christians?
How?
They had not believed in the gospel, 1Corinthians 15:1-4!
They could not believe in Jesus' ressurection.
They only believed in Jesus' ressurection when He physically appeared to them.
Even then the gospel was not in force until it was first preached to the Jews in Acts 2.

Jesus' new will and testament was not in force in Luke 23:54-56.
At that time the old covenant law, was still in force.
It ended at Acts chapter 2.

It always amazes me that people don't realize that the gospels were addressed to the Jews, although others may have heard them also. I often see the error that people apply the gospels to Christians. By doing so, they deny the Holy Spirit, whom Jesus said guides them into all truth, and follow the OT law.

 

[Titus]

Uh huh. And what of 1 John 2:6?

These people walked just exactly as Jesus walked. Nobody was ever closer to Jesus.

John is referring to followers of Christ. These were followers of Christ. Christian means follower/disciple of Christ.

Good luck with that one.

Error,
A person in the gospels that was a disciple of Christ, was in fact Jews under old Mosaical law.
No disciple of Jesus became a born again Christian until Jesus' new covenant come into force, Acts chapter 2.

You have a huge problem Sir.

You have the Jews being bound by the new covenant before they could have believed in Jesus' ressurection!

Before they ever heard the gospel!

God would not have bound His new will and testament on disciples THAT COULD NOT BELIEVE AND OBEY IT!

They were still following the old law of Moses. Still under the first covenant.

 

[Titus]

It always amazes me that people don't realize that the gospels were addressed to the Jews, although others may have heard them also. I often see the error that people apply the gospels to Christians. By doing so, they deny the Holy Spirit, whom Jesus said guides them into all truth, and follow the OT law.

Yes, no way could a person who believes we are bound by the old covenant have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They are to ignorant of the Spirit's revelation.

 

[Titus]

No, I'm merely shining the spotlight on a passage of Scripture that exists that you're trying desperately to make go away.

You're kicking against the goads.

You can't make Scripture say what you want it to say. It says what it says.

Jesus' disciples obeyed the Sabbath in the New Testament; ... after He was already Crucified on the Cross.

It is what it is.

You gave no answer!
2Peter 3:16,
....which untaught and unstable men twist to their own destruction as they do the rest of the Scriptures.
You are cursed,
Galatians 3:10

 

[ChristisGod]

Uh huh. And what of 1 John 2:6?

These people walked just exactly as Jesus walked. Nobody was ever closer to Jesus.

John is referring to followers of Christ. These were followers of Christ. Christian means follower/disciple of Christ.

Good luck with that one.

no one walks "exactly " like Jesus for He is God who is holy, sinless, perfect, omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent, eternal, Creator, Lord etc......... He is God and we are not.

 

[Titus]

John is referring to followers of Christ. These were followers of Christ. Christian means follower/disciple of Christ.

You do not believe the scriptures Sir,
Acts 11:26
First called Christians at Antioch

 

[GEN2REV]

You have a huge problem Sir.

You have the Jews being bound by the new covenant before they could have believed in Jesus' ressurection!

Before they ever heard the gospel!

No problem I have is as big an issue as your willful delusions and stubborn refusal to even consider Scripture that continues to correct you.

God would not have bound His new will and testament on disciples THAT COULD NOT BELIEVE AND OBEY IT! They were still following the old law of Moses. Still under the first covenant.

They were following Jesus, ignorant mule.

Jesus obeyed all the 10 Commandments.

Can you read this?: "... I have kept My Father's Commandments, and abide in His love."
John 15:10

That's exactly what they did.

Christian means follower of Christ. That is what they were and what they were doing in Luke 23:54-56.

 

[Titus]

No problem I have is as big an issue as your willful delusions and stubborn refusal to even consider Scripture that continues to correct you.They were following Jesus, ignorant mule.

Jesus obeyed all the 10 Commandments.

Can you read this?: "... I have kept My Father's Commandments, and abide in His love."
John 15:10

That's exactly what they did.

Christian means follower of Christ. That is what they were and what they were doing in Luke 23:54-56.

You cannot give an answer to your error.

How are these Jewish disciples already christians before they heard and believed in the death, burial and ressurection of Christ, 1Corinthians 15:1-4?

You have given no explanation.

You err every time you claim these Jews can be christians before they believed and obeyed the gospel.

You teach folks are saved christians before they believe the gospel!

You need to read where salvation is found!
Romans 1:16.

 

[GEN2REV]

You cannot give an answer to your error.

How are these Jewish disciples already christians before they heard and believed in the death, burial and ressurection of Christ, 1Corinthians 15:1-4?

You have given no explanation.

You err every time you claim these Jews can be christians before they believed and obeyed the gospel.

You teach folks are saved christians before they believe the gospel!

You need to read where salvation is found!
Romans 1:16.

I've answered repeatedly by telling you what a Christian is; and showing you that they met that requirement.

You are still refusing to respond to 1 John 2:6 in relation to John 15:10.

 

[Jim B]

People seem to forget to whom the Gospels were addressed -- not to Christians but to Jews. It is a serious error to think otherwise. Of course they are part of the Bible, as is all Scripture, to teach us God's ways, but it is wrong to apply them to those to whom they were not addressed.

 

[Titus]

I've answered repeatedly by telling you what a Christian is; and showing you that they met that requirement.

You are still refusing to respond to 1 John 2:6 in relation to John 15:10.

That is not an answer to how one can become a saved born again Christian without ever believing in the ressurection of Jesus Christ or ever hearing the gospel preached to them.

Paul makes it crystal clear Gen2Rev, that the gospel that saves is believing in the death, burial and ressurection of Jesus Christ.
Those Jews in John 15:10 did not know if Jesus had risen from the dead.

1John 2:6,
He who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk just as He has walked.
This verse gives no answer to my question about your theological error with how one becomes a born again Christian.

 

[ChristisGod]

That is not an answer to how one can become a saved born again Christian without ever believing in the ressurection of Jesus Christ or ever hearing the gospel preached to them.

Paul makes it crystal clear Gen2Rev, that the gospel that saves is believing in the death, burial and ressurection of Jesus Christ.
Those Jews in John 15:10 did not know if Jesus had risen from the dead.

1John 2:6,
He who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk just as He has walked.
This verse gives no answer to my question about your theological error with how ones becomes a born again Christian.

Amen - faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ .

Romans 10
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ

 

[Titus]

More lies and straw men.

That's the only card you guys have left to play.

Post a quote of somebody claiming we are bound by the old covenant.

And, again, this challenge will never be met.

Because you're full of lies. Your father fills your heart.
John 8:44

You have proven you cannot give an answer for your own doctrine.

Tell me how Jews in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are according to you christians, when they have never heard the gospel nor has Jesus yet died and risen from the dead?
1Corinthians 15:1-4.

At this point, I do not believe you care what is truth.

 

[GEN2REV]

You have proven you cannot give an answer for your own doctrine.

Tell me how Jews in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are according to you christians, when they have never heard the gospel nor has Jesus yet died and risen from the dead?
1Corinthians 15:1-4.

At this point, I do not believe you care what is truth.

FAIL!

As usual. You weren't capable of meeting the challenge.

Jesus' followers observed the Sabbath the very night of His death on the Cross and you just can't make that go away.

Jesus obeyed all 10 Commandments His entire life and so did all Christians for 300 years thereafter. The Bible shows beyond the shadow of a doubt that Paul was a keeper of the 10 Commandments.

In order to follow 1 John 2:6, Christians must obey the 10 Commandments or they are not followers of Christ; not True Christians - that is.

Most professed christians today believe what you and your 'mischief' pack believe and preach. And we know that most professed christians will travel down the descending wide road, hand in hand, in harmony of darkness to the final disappointment when Many will say Lord, Lord, Lord!!

It's a shame, but the Truth hurts.

As long as you continue to hold on to your pride and your desire for the love of men rather than the love of God, you will continue in blind obedience to the enemy, with scales upon your eyes, seeing and teaching only falsehood.

But we both know in your case, you're well aware you're teaching lies.

 

[Titus]

FAIL!

As usual. You weren't capable of meeting the challenge.

Jesus' followers observed the Sabbath the very night of His death on the Cross and you just can't make that go away.

Jesus obeyed all 10 Commandments His entire life and so did all Christians for 300 years thereafter. The Bible shows beyond the shadow of a doubt that Paul was a keeper of the 10 Commandments.

In order to follow 1 John 2:6, Christians must obey the 10 Commandments or they are not followers of Christ; not True Christians - that is.

Most professed christians today believe what you and your 'mischief' pack believe and preach. And we know that most professed christians will travel down the descending wide road, hand in hand, in harmony of darkness to the final disappointment when Many will say Lord, Lord, Lord!!

It's a shame, but the Truth hurts.

As long as you continue to hold on to your pride and your desire for the love of men rather than the love of God, you will continue in blind obedience to the enemy, with scales upon your eyes, seeing and teaching only falsehood.

But we both know in your case, you're well aware you're teaching lies.

Anyone with honesty can read our discussion and see you never gave an explanation for how Jews in Luke, Mark, Matthew, John were christians, without ever knowing Jesus would raise from the dead.
You must believe Jesus rose from the dead to obey and be saved in Jesus' gospel, 1Corinthians 15:1-4.

You have proven by your "answer" you have no real answer.

Hebrews 3:10

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

The Ark of the Covenant is better understood as a symbol of Christ.

The ark of the covenant is not a symbol of Christ. The ark of the covenant was meant to symbolize God's authority and presence in Israel. God's instructions regarding its construction in Exo. 25 clearly shows that it was meant to be a physical replica of the throne the Father sits on, hence the command to mold 2 cherubim with their wings extended over both sides of the mercy seat.

This fallacy highlights why antinomians don't understand the Bible as well as they think they do: they reduce everything in the Bible to being about Christ, and the completely eliminate the Father from the picture.

Jesus was born under the law (Galatians 4:4) so of course He kept the sabbath. Who is Exodus 20:8-10 written to? See Exodus 20:2. Nowhere in the New Testament is the Church/the body of Christ commanded to keep the sabbath day. SDA’s mix the old and new covenants together which creates a lot of confusion.

Oh ye of little understanding, Gal. 4:4 is actually saying that Jesus came from a woman who needed a Savior:

"But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,"

Look at that bolded phrase carefully and honestly. Paul was clearly not teaching the fallacy that Jesus only kept the Sabbath to fulfill the messianic requirements so nobody would else have to do it, and no honest person would even attempt to read that idea into the text. Paul was clearly referring to Mary here.

You also dishonestly claim that Gentiles weren't commanded to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant, even though James clearly stated in Acts 15:21 that Moses' writings were read to Gentiles and Jews on the Sabbath.

No amount of antinomian reasoning can change the fact that there is biblical proof of Sabbath keeping being commanded in the NT Church and 0 proof to support their own deceitful doctrine.

 

[Titus]

The ark of the covenant is not a symbol of Christ. The ark of the covenant was meant to symbolize God's authority and presence in Israel. God's instructions regarding its construction in Exo. 25 clearly shows that it was meant to be a physical replica of the throne the Father sits on, hence the command to mold 2 cherubim with their wings extended over both sides of the mercy seat.

This fallacy is highlights why antinomians don't understand the Bible as well as they think they do: they reduce everything in the Bible to being about Christ, and the completely eliminate the Father from the picture.
Oh ye of little understanding, Gal. 4:4 is actually saying that Jesus came from a woman who needed a Savior:



Look at that bolded phrase carefully and honestly. Paul was clearly not teaching the fallacy that Jesus only kept the Sabbath to fulfill the messianic requirements so nobody would else have to do it, and no honest person would even attempt to read that idea into the text. Paul was clearly referring to Mary here.

You also dishonestly claim that Gentiles weren't commanded to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant, even though James clearly stated in Acts 15:21 that Moses' writings were read to Gentiles and Jews on the Sabbath.

No amount of antinomian reasoning can change the fact that there is biblical proof of Sabbath keeping being commanded in the NT Church and 0 proof to support their own deceitful doctrine.

Hello,
Please give the new testament command for Sabbath keeping?

 

[Titus]

I will tell you what dishonesty is.
Dishonesty is making a claim about someone not knowing if they really are genuine in what they teach or are telling falsehoods. Since you cannot know Danthemailman's mind, you are making a false allegation that you cannot prove is true.

You also dishonestly claim that Gentiles weren't commanded to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant, even though James clearly stated in Acts 15:21 that Moses' writings were read to Gentiles and Jews on the Sabbath.

I believe Danthemailman genuinely believes the gentiles were not commanded to keep the Sabbath because,
There is no evidence for your belief that there is a new testament commandment for Sabbath keeping.

 

[Titus]

James clearly stated in Acts 15:21 that Moses' writings were read to Gentiles and Jews on the Sabbath.

Even if you are correct about Acts 15:21. How does that prove that the gentiles were bound to keep,the Sabbath?

Acts 15:21,
For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.

Where does this passage even mention gentiles being included in hearing Moses preached In the synagogue?

Do you not know, that gentiles were not even allowed in a synagogue?
You had to be circumcised to enter the synagogue!

Let's see what is really going on with the gentiles in Acts 15.

Acts 15:5
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying It is necessary to circumcise them(gentile christians) and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

-6 Now the apostles and the elders came together to discuss this matter.

-9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

-10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke around their neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

-19 therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God.

-20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled and from blood.

Now listen very closely to what the apostles decide to tell the gentile Christians,

-24 Since we have heard that some who have went out from us have troubled you with words.
Unsettling your souls, saying You must be circumcised and keep the law--to whom we gave no such commandment.

Conclusion:
Acts chapter 15 teaches the opposite of gentiles keeping the old law.
In reality it is teaching the gentiles HAVE NEVER BEEN BOUND TO KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES.

And the apostles teach that no gentile Christian is to keep the law of Moses! They gave no such commandment!

There is no commandment in the new testament for gentiles or Jews who are christians to keep the Sabbath day.