"If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

[mailmandan]

..Oh ye of little understanding, Gal. 4:4 is actually saying that Jesus came from a woman who needed a Savior:

No amount of SDA eisegesis can change the fact that Galatians 4:4 clearly states God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the law/subject to the regulations of the law, to purchase the freedom of (to ransom, to redeem, to atone for) those who were subject to the law..

Look at that bolded phrase carefully and honestly. Paul was clearly not teaching the fallacy that Jesus only kept the Sabbath to fulfill the messianic requirements so nobody would else have to do it, and no honest person would even attempt to read that idea into the text. Paul was clearly referring to Mary here.

False. Your eisegesis here exposes your dishonesty.

You also dishonestly claim that Gentiles weren't commanded to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant, even though James clearly stated in Acts 15:21 that Moses' writings were read to Gentiles and Jews on the Sabbath.

My claim was not dishonest. In regards to Acts 15:21, even going back to Acts 13:42-44 (which SDA's often cite in an effort to make your same argument) Paul's work here was evangelism. Notice that these were "unbelievers" before Paul preached to them. They believed in the Jewish system, but the Bible says in Acts 14:1, that they BECAME believers proving Paul's work there was evangelism and not sabbath worship.

The Greeks were Jewish converts to Judaism known as proselytes. They practiced the law of Moses and kept the sabbath. The only Greeks that were in the synagogue would be these proselytes. These Greeks were certainly not Christians. Acts 13:43 "Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in the grace of God."

Acts 14:1 - "In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together, and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed, both of Jews and of Greeks."

Acts 17:4 - "And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.

Acts 18:4 - "And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks."

No amount of antinomian reasoning can change the fact that there is biblical proof of Sabbath keeping being commanded in the NT Church and 0 proof to support their own deceitful doctrine.

No amount of SDA eisegesis can prove that sabbath keeping is commanded in the NT Church for the body of Christ. Now since the old covenant of law has been made obsolete and replaced by the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:13) does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not! The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) Love fulfills the law. (Romans 13:8-10) Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

*Although the moral principles of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

 

[ChristisGod]

Hello,
Please give the new testament command for Sabbath keeping?

There is none just like fasting there is none its old testament.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The ark of the covenant is not a symbol of Christ. The ark of the covenant was meant to symbolize God's authority and presence in Israel.

Yes, the ark hidden within the tabernacle is indeed meant to symbolize the enthronement of God in the heart of the tabernacle of the believer. Jesus in our hearts by the Holy Spirit is the King's authoritative and reigning presence in the believer.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

God's instructions regarding its construction in Exo. 25 clearly shows that it was meant to be a physical replica of the throne the Father sits on, hence the command to mold 2 cherubim with their wings extended over both sides of the mercy seat.

I think you're misunderstanding the meaning of the mercy seat. It's the place that God has ordained where God comes down to meet man and give him mercy. That ordained 'place' where God meets man and pours out his mercy is Jesus Christ. Jesus, the mercy seat of God, is hidden in the secret place of the heart in the tent and tabernacle of the believer. The believer carries, Jesus, the Ark of the Covenant around with him in the desert places of this life in the temporary tent and tabernacle of the body until that day we enter into permanent dwellings and we cast the perishable away and take on the imperishable. Just as the Israelites did with the types and figures of the old covenant tabernacle and it's furnishings.

 

[Titus]

There is none just like fasting there is none its old testament.

You are correct.
Jesus does say "when you fast" that insinuates that christians will fast. But you are absolutely correct that Jesus never gave a direct order for christians to fast. It is optional.

Matthew 6:16-18,
Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
But you when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face,
So that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

You know, that shows that God is moved by our own effort.
You know it takes self- discipline and self-denial to refuse the natural desires of the flesh.
God rewards those who refuse to give in to the desires of the flesh.
God rewards those who take control of their physical desires.
I find this interesting that suffering like fasting, moves God to bless us.

No doubt God loves when we control ourselves.
1Peter 5:8,
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

 

[GEN2REV]

Even if you are correct about Acts 15:21. How does that prove that the gentiles were bound to keep,the Sabbath?

Acts 15:21,
For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.

Where does this passage even mention gentiles being included in hearing Moses preached In the synagogue?

Do you not know, that gentiles were not even allowed in a synagogue?
You had to be circumcised to enter the synagogue!

Let's see what is really going on with the gentiles in Acts 15.

Acts 15:5
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying It is necessary to circumcise them(gentile christians) and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

-6 Now the apostles and the elders came together to discuss this matter.

-9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

-10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke around their neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

-19 therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God.

-20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled and from blood.

Now listen very closely to what the apostles decide to tell the gentile Christians,

-24 Since we have heard that some who have went out from us have troubled you with words.
Unsettling your souls, saying You must be circumcised and keep the law--to whom we gave no such commandment.

Conclusion:
Acts chapter 15 teaches the opposite of gentiles keeping the old law.
In reality it is teaching the gentiles HAVE NEVER BEEN BOUND TO KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES.

And the apostles teach that no gentile Christian is to keep the law of Moses! They gave no such commandment!

There is no commandment in the new testament for gentiles or Jews who are christians to keep the Sabbath day.

Acts 13:42 makes it clear as well.

Paul and Barnabas were preaching in the Synagogue on the Sabbath day. When they were done, and all the Jews had left the Synagogue, all the Gentiles, who were near enough to have heard the entire preaching - whether inside or just outside, asked Paul and Barnabas to preach the same message to them again the following Sabbath. Note: They did not ask them to preach it to them the very next day, being Sunday. No, they followed Paul and Barnabas' pattern of preaching on the Sabbath Day.

"And when the Jews were gone out of the Synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath."
Acts 13:42

 

[GEN2REV]

Please give the new testament command for Sabbath keeping?

There is none just like fasting there is none its old testament.

Actually, it was a given that Christians fasted. There was no need for an additional Commandment to be given in the NT for it to be understood as something Christians did to purify themselves, physically and spiritually.

"Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward."
Matthew 6:16
Not "if" or "per chance", but "WHEN" you fast. It was a given.

When Jesus spoke of casting out demons, He made note of one particularly nasty kind that required fasting by the ... Exorcist - if you will.
"Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."
Matthew 17:21

 

[Titus]

Acts 13:42 makes it clear as well.

Paul and Barnabas were preaching in the Synagogue on the Sabbath day. When they were done, and all the Jews had left the Synagogue, all the Gentiles, who were near enough to have heard the entire preaching - whether inside or just outside, asked Paul and Barnabas to preach the same message to them again the following Sabbath. Note: They did not ask them to preach it to them the very next day, being Sunday. No, they followed Paul and Barnabas' pattern of preaching on the Sabbath Day.

"And when the Jews were gone out of the Synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath."
Acts 13:42

Gentiles asked them to preach on the next Sabbath as that is what they had already been doing.
Jews did not worship on Sunday. They were preaching to multitudes. Sabbath preaching was for the purpose of reaching the Jews. Both Jews and gentiles can hear the gospel. Do you think Jews would have heard the gospel preached on a Sunday?

 

[Titus]

Actually, it was a given that Christians fasted. There was no need for an additional Commandment to be given in the NT for it to be understood as something Christians did to purify themselves, physically and spiritually.

"Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward."
Matthew 6:16
Not "if" or "per chance", but "WHEN" you fast. It was a given.

When Jesus spoke of casting out demons, He made note of one particularly nasty kind that required fasting by the ... Exorcist - if you will.
"Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."
Matthew 17:21

Matthew 17:21 , demon possession does not occur today. That passage is not written for us to follow.

Give a new covenant commandment for Christians to fast? Jesus was speaking to jews.
Christians can fast if they desire but it is not part of the law of Christ.
Do you fast?

 

[ChristisGod]

Actually, it was a given that Christians fasted. There was no need for an additional Commandment to be given in the NT for it to be understood as something Christians did to purify themselves, physically and spiritually.

"Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward."
Matthew 6:16
Not "if" or "per chance", but "WHEN" you fast. It was a given.

When Jesus spoke of casting out demons, He made note of one particularly nasty kind that required fasting by the ... Exorcist - if you will.
"Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."
Matthew 17:21

Its not a command, an imperative.

 

[GEN2REV]

You are correct.
Jesus does say "when you fast" that insinuates that christians will fast. But you are absolutely correct that Jesus never gave a direct order for christians to fast. It is optional.

Matthew 6:16-18,
Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
But you when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face,
So that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

You know, that shows that God is moved by our own effort.
You know it takes self- discipline and self-denial to refuse the natural desires of the flesh.
God rewards those who refuse to give in to the desires of the flesh.
God rewards those who take control of their physical desires.
I find this interesting that suffering like fasting, moves God to bless us.

No doubt God loves when we control ourselves.
1Peter 5:8,
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

You guys are obnoxious.

No, there's no Commandment to Fast.

There's also no Commandment to obey God.

Fasting is a gift God gave us to purify the connection between Him and us, just as the Sabbath is a gift He gave us to bring us into closer relationship with Him. But the Sabbath He absolutely did Command because ... He insists on being in close communion with those He loves.

And, here's the kicker, those who truly love Him ... insist on being in close communion with Him.

 

[GEN2REV]

Gentiles asked them to preach on the next Sabbath as that is what they had already been doing.
Jews did not worship on Sunday. They were preaching to multitudes. Sabbath preaching was for the purpose of reaching the Jews. Both Jews and gentiles can hear the gospel. Do you think Jews would have heard the gospel preached on a Sunday?

You're not-so-cleverly dodging the glaringly obvious point there.

The Gentiles, who you claim worshiped on Sunday back then, could've easily had them preach on Sunday ... the following day.

They did not.

Because the Sabbath was the day of worship still at that time for Christians. Paul and Barnabas were Christians.

 

[Titus]

There's also no Commandment to obey God.

Luke 11:28,
But He said, More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey it.

 

[Titus]

You're not-so-cleverly dodging the glaringly obvious point there.

The Gentiles, who you claim worshiped on Sunday back then, could've easily had them preach on Sunday ... the following day.

They did not.

Because the Sabbath was the day of worship still at that time for Christians. Paul and Barnabas were Christians.

You can go back in a time machine and tell the gentiles they should have told the apostles when they should preach.

Customs at that time was convenient for gentiles and Jews to hear preaching on the Sabbath. Simply because that was the day when multitudes were together. The apostles most certainly did preach to Christians, on Sunday,
Acts 20:7.

 

[GEN2REV]

You can go back in a time machine and tell the gentiles they should have told the apostles when they should preach.

Customs at that time was convenient for gentiles and Jews to hear preaching on the Sabbath. Simply because that was the day when multitudes were together. The apostles most certainly did preach to Christians, on Sunday,
Acts 20:7.

Oh, the old stand-by Acts 20:7 FAILURE of a proof text for 1st Day Worship in the Bible. I won't even waste much time on this absolute JOKE of a passage that is claimed to support 1st Day Worship, but has been proven otherwise ad nauseum on every Christian Forum since Creation.

Breaking bread is undeniably a common meal. There are extensive verses to prove that. It is not a Communion ceremony. They did it DAILY, not just on Sundays. If days ended at sundown back then, which they did, this passage doesn't serve to support what it's claimed to at all.

Pathetic.

 

[GEN2REV]

Luke 11:28,
But He said, More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey it.

If that's your definition of a Commandment, I've got bags full of verses to dump on you proving ALL of your arguments against the 10 Commandments - completely WRONG.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Even if you are correct about Acts 15:21. How does that prove that the gentiles were bound to keep,the Sabbath?

Acts 15:21,
For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.

Where does this passage even mention gentiles being included in hearing Moses preached In the synagogue?

Do you not know, that gentiles were not even allowed in a synagogue?
You had to be circumcised to enter the synagogue!

Let's see what is really going on with the gentiles in Acts 15.

Acts 15:5
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying It is necessary to circumcise them(gentile christians) and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

-6 Now the apostles and the elders came together to discuss this matter.

-9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

-10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke around their neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

-19 therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God.

-20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled and from blood.

Now listen very closely to what the apostles decide to tell the gentile Christians,

-24 Since we have heard that some who have went out from us have troubled you with words.
Unsettling your souls, saying You must be circumcised and keep the law--to whom we gave no such commandment.

Conclusion:
Acts chapter 15 teaches the opposite of gentiles keeping the old law.
In reality it is teaching the gentiles HAVE NEVER BEEN BOUND TO KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES.

And the apostles teach that no gentile Christian is to keep the law of Moses! They gave no such commandment!

There is no commandment in the new testament for gentiles or Jews who are christians to keep the Sabbath day.

"Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him when he saw that the city was given over to idols. Therefore he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and with the Gentile worshipers, and in the marketplace daily with those who happened to be there."- Acts 17:16-17-

Now what was it you were saying about Gentiles not being allowed in synagogues with the Jews? There is a clear reference to Gentile worshipers being taught alongside Jews in a synagogue.

The rest of your nonsense isn't even worth debunking in detail since no amount of biblical proof is going to convince you that you are absolutely wrong. I will however, say that since Revelation states multiple times that Jesus' true followers are identified as commandment keepers, that answers the question as to whether there is a NT command for Sabbath keeping or not. The Sabbath is still a command, therefore God's true followers are identified as keeping it holy like the OT saints did.

 

[Titus]

Oh, the old stand-by Acts 20:7 FAILURE of a proof text for 1st Day Worship in the Bible. I won't even waste much time on this absolute JOKE of a passage that is claimed to support 1st Day Worship, but has been proven otherwise ad nauseum on every Christian Forum since Creation.

Breaking bread is undeniably a common meal. There are extensive verses to prove that. It is not a Communion ceremony. They did it DAILY, not just on Sundays. If days ended at sundown back then, which they did, this passage doesn't serve to support what it's claimed to at all.

Pathetic.

At the time of Acts 20:7 christians were not following the Jewish calendar. Give a new testament scripture that teaches Christians must obey the Jewish calendar?
What part of "on the first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread dont you understand?

It was the Lords supper for preaching of the gospel is worship on Sunday.
Paul instructs christians not to eat common meals in worship,



If you can prove it is commanded that christians must keep the Jewish calendar as part of Jesus' gospel you have some credibility.
If you cannot show in the new testament of Jesus Christ that christians are not commanded as Gods law to keep the Jewish calendar you have no case.

Jesus was ressurected on the first day of the week,
John 20:1
Now on the first day if the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.
-9
For as yet they did not know the Scripture, that He must rise again from the dead.

Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week.
That is significant for why the Lords supper is partaken on the first day of the week,
1Corinthians 11:26,
For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup you proclaim the Lords death till He comes.
-33-34
Therefore my brethren, when you come together to eat( the Lords supper) wait for one another.
But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come.

When the church came together to worship God on Sunday, they did not eat common meals. They only partook of the Lords supper when worshipping!

Acts 20:7
Now on the first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread(Lords supper),
Paul, ready to depart the next day, preached to them and continued His gospel until midnight.

These are Christians!
Follows of Jesus Christ.
Jews kept the Sabbath.
Christians worship God, Jesus on the first day of the week. That day is Sunday.
Sunday is the Lords day.
Christian worship includes the fellowship of the Lords supper, singing hymns, prayer, preaching the gospel and giving to Lord what we have been prospered.
This is all done on the first day of the week.
1Corinthians 16:1-2,
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia so you must do.
On the first day of the week, let each of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.

John knows what day is the Lords day.
It is not the Jewish Sabbath day.
Revelation 1:10,
I was in the Spirit on the Lords day and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet

 

[GEN2REV]

John knows what day is the Lords day.
It is not the Jewish Sabbath day.
Revelation 1:10,
I was in the Spirit on the Lords day and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet.

You're really getting desperate now.

Nowhere in, or near, that verse is the Lord's Day defined, one way or the other.

BUT, it is clearly defined in Isaiah 58:13.

The ONLY day God ever blessed and called His own.

The Holy Sabbath Day .... Saturday the 7th day of the week.

 

[Titus]

Now what was it you were saying about Gentiles not being allowed in synagogues with the Jews? There is a clear reference to Gentile worshipers being taught alongside Jews in a synagogue.

The rest of your nonsense isn't even worth debunking in detail since no amount of biblical proof is going to convince you that you are absolutely wrong. I will however, say that since Revelation states multiple times that Jesus' true followers are identified as commandment keepers, that answers the question as to whether there is a NT command for Sabbath keeping or not. The Sabbath is still a command, therefore God's true followers are identified as keeping it holy like the OT saints did.

Simple, proselytes to Judaism.

What part of, Acts 15:24 do you not understand?
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying You must be circumcised and keep the law-- to whom we gave no such commandment