He gives and increases good attributes. He only requires our will to be and do what is good.
If you think Mary remained a virgin till she died, then bet on it
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He gives and increases good attributes. He only requires our will to be and do what is good.
Tommy Cool
Active Member
"Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father..." (Jas. 1:17)
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
There is none that does good and does not sin. Ecclesiastes 7:20
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. Mark 10:18
All that is true, as is what I said, which is good comes from God: "Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father..." (Jas. 1:17)
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Our focus determines our works.
Is it on ourselves ie, our activity/ performance or is it on the God of Grace? Listening to the yada yada reveals these factors.
I just said all good comes from God, which it does: "Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father..." (Jas. 1:17). Do you agree that verse is True?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Tommy Cool
Active Member
So now you have changed your attributes to gifts ..big difference
God explicitly tells us which gifts he has bestowed upon the believers ….there are 7 in total.
5 gift ministries Eph 4
Gift of healings 1 Cor_ 12:9
And holy spirit at the new birth I Peter_1:23
That’s it ……that is what the Word declares. If something you believe contradicts what the Word states ….either you are wrong or God is wrong …… my $$$$ is on God’s word being accurate.
Additionally the gifts spoken of in James_ 1:17 says Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above…
Your attributes cannot be perfect as they are subject to change or corruption depending on your stand.....as they are a physical attribute.
Also … It would make God a respecter of persons if he gave you gifts but does not give it to others.
I haven't changed anything. Every good thing given is from God (Jas. 1:17), which includes good attributes, and thus is a gift: "Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father..." (Jas. 1:17)
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BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
P2 -10.
Jesus also had sisters. Their names are not listed.
I've heard that virgin in the transition actually means to say Mary was unmarried.
Because according to the cultures single woman was also virgin. Virgin beibg synonymous with single or unmarried.
Jesus also had sisters. Their names are not listed.
Did Jesus have brothers and sisters (siblings)? | GotQuestions.org
Did Jesus have brothers and sisters (siblings)? Were the brothers and sisters of Jesus mentioned in the Bible actually His cousins?
www.gotquestions.org
I've heard that virgin in the transition actually means to say Mary was unmarried.
Because according to the cultures single woman was also virgin. Virgin beibg synonymous with single or unmarried.
The unnamed sisters of Jesus in Matt. 13:56/Mk. 6:4 are never called the daughters of Joseph and/or Mary of Joseph, but rather only Jesus's "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), or "sisters" in English, and that doesn't prove they were His siblings, because the word has multiple definitions, one of them being "near kinsman, or relative".
Myself and others agree the definition that applies to the word "αδελφαι" in Matt. 13:56/Mk. 6:4 is "near kinsman, or relative", but a kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, niece, or aunt, etc., and the word itself doesn't indicate which type of kinship applies. For this reason, merely citing verses with the word "αδελφαι" and basically saying "See, they were Jesus's siblings!" is assuming that type of kinship applies, but an assumption isn't proof.
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
Assuming Mary remained virgin when Jesus had brothers, is proof of an assumption.
Matthew 1:25 "But he (Joseph) had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus."
Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 are never called the sons of Joseph and/or Mary of Joseph, but rather Jesus's "adelphoi" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi), or "brothers" in English, in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and that doesn't prove they were His siblings, because the word has multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "near kinsman, or relative", etc.
Myself and others agree the definition that applies to the word "adelphoi" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 is "near kinsman, or relative", but a kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, or uncle, etc., and the word itself doesn't indicate which type of kinship applies. For this reason, merely citing verses with the word "adelphoi" and basically saying "See, they were Jesus's siblings!" is assuming that type of kinship applies, but an assumption isn't proof.
I don't assume my position is true, I show it is, and my position is that Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Judas/Thaddeus) were the sons of Joseph's brother, Alphaeus, and his wife Mary of Alphaeus (Clopas/Cleophas), and thus were Jesus's brothers, as in kinsmen, specifically His cousins. See here.
Regarding the word "ἕως" (heōs), or "until" in English, it's not always used to indicate what didn't happen until a certain point started to happen after that point. In some cases, it's used to indicate something didn't happen until a certain point, like in the case of Matt. 1:25. Please take the time to read the following.
"But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus. For he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled that which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying: Behold, a virgin shall be with child and bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. And Joseph, rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took to him his wife. And he knew her not until she brought forth her firstborn son, and he called his name Jesus."
The context of Matt. 1:25 is Joseph's accepting as his spouse the virgin who conceived the Savior of mankind by the Holy Spirit. The gospel writer concludes the passage by stating that Joseph didn't have intercourse with Mary until Jesus's birth, to dispel any belief that he was the father.
In other words, since the gospel writer's intent at the end was to dispel any belief that Jesus was conceived by Joseph, and not begotten by the Holy Spirit, they stated he remained chaste until Jesus's birth. Using the word "until" to indicate Joseph and Mary had sex after Jesus's birth doesn't dispel the belief Jesus was conceived by Joseph.
Therefore, the argument that the gospel writer, after writing about the long-anticipated messianic prophecy coming to fruition, basically threw in the tidbit, "After the birth of the Savior, Joseph had intercourse with Mary and 4 more kids" at the end is quite random and isn't in line with the context of Matt. 1:20-25.
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
If you are Catholic you will never go against the teachings of the church.
While the perpetual virginity of Mary, even after giving birth, even after sex with Joseph, is unbiblical. And untrue by the very nature of human reproduction. The hymen does not remain in tact after giving birth or after sexual penetration.
Admitting a Greek word translates as kinsman but cannot mean brother or sister sibling, I believe is intellectually dishonest to those facts.
Jesus did have brothers. And sisters.
Matthew 13:55 settles the matter for me: 'Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brethren James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And are not all his sisters with us?'"
I didn't say the words "adelphoi" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), or "brothers" and "sisters" in English, can't refer to a sibling. I said one definition those words share is "near kinsman, or relative" and that a male/female kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.
We agree the definition that applies to the words "adelphoi" and "αδελφαι" in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 is "near kinsman, or relative", but those words themselves don't indicate which type of kinship applies, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc. For this reason, merely citing verses with the words "adelphoi" and "αδελφαι" and basically saying "See, they were Jesus's siblings!" is assuming that type of kinship applies, but an assumption isn't proof.
In the opening post of my thread, I provided evidence that confirms Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 were Jesus's brothers, as in kinsmen, and shows that the type of kinship between them and Jesus was that of cousins, because they were the sons of Joseph's brother, Alphaeus, and his wife Mary of Alphaeus (Clopas/Cleophas). This was accomplished primarily by identifying James.
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Tommy Cool
Active Member
Neither have I …….I still admire steadfastness and conviction
Although I may have mistaken your steadfastness for blind stubbornness.
To believe what you think is truth … above what God declares in His Word …. is not a positive attribute as it collides with humility towards God. ….
By exalting your beliefs above the Truths of the written Word …. it is not only the seeds of deception and error… it is the cultivation of religion …which by worldly observation is what man thinks of God. … And that in turn changes the divine course of God being the subject and man being the object. …..It now makes you the driver, with God as the object and your life the subject of devotion…..good luck with that!
All I said was all good comes from God, which it does: "Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father..." (Jas. 1:17).
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