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Featured If you want to Choose to Reject the Rapture=Just stay here!

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by GISMYS_7, Sep 12, 2019.

  1. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps a spiritual aspect to the physical one that the Israelites were gathered around in those days.
     
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  2. Mal'ak

    Mal'ak Member

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    Matthew 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

    Yes, faith is a gift of the spirit just as much as teaching is, if someone stays strong in their faith it does count as righteousness. But that is still a work in the sense you are proving yourself to God, by you staying faithful you are making a free will choice to not reject God and continue in your belief no matter what. As Jesus said, there are Christians with "five...two...one talents...according to his several ability". Some Christians are not spiritually strong, so keeping their faith is the "one talent" they have to their Christian walk and as long as they keep it they will be found in the book of life.

    You did not read my post, just read what you wanted to hear, which is common with rapture and grace alone Christians...cherry picking. If you read the entirety of what I wrote, I said there was one scripture BUT it was taken out of context, so in reality there is no backing. You still ignore the fact Jesus said he will judge everyone by their works when he returns, just to start finding some loop hole, still waiting for you to explain why Jesus said he will judge everyone by their works....interesting in your two post reply, you failed to comment on that...some may say that was a willful and purposely done act.

    Titus 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
    Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,


    Purposely missed the verses before verse four, which state that men were acting vile (the Jews), but not out of works but out of the loving kindness of God did he send Jesus to the world. Titus was talking to the Jews here, saying none were worthy to have Jesus come down to save us, but because of God's grace and love he sent Jesus anyway.

    Titus 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

    ..of course you purposely missed the next verse, which says that we are still required to continue doing good works. Interesting that you cherry picked to keep the two verses that give the context of those listed, and that both prove your doctrine wrong...hmmm.

    Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

    Again taken out of context, if you continue reading down at verse 22 of Romans 11, you will see that we are to continue in his goodness or we will be "cut off". So can not be only of grace, if our actions can cause us to be cut off from God. You are missing the point, as I said in my first post, we are saved by Grace in that we as humans can not earn salvation ourselves alone but need God's help. But there is a difference between God helping those that are proving themselves, and God helping people spending their life drunk in a brothel.

    You answered this yourself, it seems your flesh imaginations are fighting the Holy Spirit and coming out with a mixture here that you can not even understand. "true grace of God is demonstrated in that a person will be made perfect after that they have suffered", if you only need to be born again then why do you need to suffer? If by Grace alone after you are reborn, why are you not perfect 10 seconds after you are given the gift of faith?

    1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

    Being born again is the first step on your journey (read the parable of the sower), but after you must "suffer" to become "perfect" like you said. That is the "trial of your faith", you are being tempted and tested your entire life to see if you are righteous and will stay faithful to God. So that you "MIGHT be found unto praise....at the appearing of Jesus Christ". There is no 100% when you are reborn that you are going to Heaven, so grace alone is not true, we need grace but if you fail the trail of your faith you will not be found worthy. As Peter says, "might be found", nothing saying "will be found".

    Again, just reading one verse and making an entire doctrine.

    If you read Revelation 3:10 in the original language of Greek, you will see you are missing a key hint, as "keep" is tēreō which means "to guard". Keeping someone from a fight, has a total different meaning then guarding someone in a fight.

    Revelation 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

    Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

    The demons that will be released on Earth were commanded not to destroy the Earth or the men with the "seal of God", "but only those men which have not the seal of God". If you questioned the rapture before you just went with it, you would have read Revelations and known that there are people on Earth God will be "guarding", which is the exact promise he gave to Philadelphia.

    Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

    Those Christians that obey the Word of God will not chose a fight with satan, but will obey Jesus' command to flee when satan shows up and to hide. If you do hide and not make a target out of yourself, you will be sealed by God and the demons are commanded not to target you. The reason is in Revelation 3:10 "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience", these Christians will have obeyed Jesus and prepared for the tribulation. While there will be Christians that believe in the rapture who will not be guarded by the seal of God since they did not obey the Word of God, " 2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"

    Difference is some pull random one verse scripture and call it a doctrine, while obedient Christians "study and show themselves approved".
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  3. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Now, I suppose that in merely referencing my verses; and in not quoting them, I have made a mistake and given you an advantage in the preaching of your (false) doctrine of salvation by works.

    So I will now quote the entirety of the passages here (I encourage the reader to take the time to read):

    Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Tit 3:4, But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
    Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    Tit 3:6, Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
    Tit 3:7, That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    Rom 11:5, Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
    Rom 11:6, And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

    Rom 4:1, What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
    Rom 4:2, For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
    Rom 4:3, For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
    Rom 4:4, Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
    Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
    Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
    Rom 4:7, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
    Rom 4:8, Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


    This is not speaking of good works per se; but is speaking of a continuing in the faith that translates into virtue in a person's heart.

    Because of what Jesus said in John 15...

    Jhn 15:18, If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
    Jhn 15:19, If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
    Jhn 15:20, Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
    Jhn 15:21, But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
    Jhn 15:22, If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
    Jhn 15:23, He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
    Jhn 15:24, If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
    Jhn 15:25, But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.


    And what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 2...

    2Co 2:15, For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
    2Co 2:16, To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?



    When a person is born again of the Holy Spirit, he begins to carry the aroma of Christ, which is hated by the world.

    So it is not that we suffer unto being justified. It is that we are justified unto a life of suffering; because now that we belong to Christ, we will be hated by the world, and this translates into persecution and suffering. And of course the Lord uses this suffering to bring about sanctification in the believer's life (which comes after justification most of the time).
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  4. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    John 5:24 tells me otherwise (read carefully what the verse says):

    Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    Even though this is spoken in one verse, we can consider it to be absolute truth because Jesus prefaced it with the words, Verily, verily, I say unto you.

    Yes; and this is also a biblical hermeneutic. For every verse of scripture stands alone as a bastion of spiritual truth; while we can also learn the teaching of the Holy Spirit by comparing spiritual thing with spiritual (1 Corinthians 2:13).

    Let's see what it says in the inerrant and inspired kjv:

    Rev 3:10, Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

    When I read my Bible in the kjv, I do not say, "I don't like the way that it says that. What does it say in the original Greek?" To me, that would be walking with itching ears (see 2 Timothy 4:1-5).

    I believe that the Lord is both sovereign and Omnipotent and loving; so He is not going to allow what is called the "authorized version" to have any kind of error in it that would subtract from or otherwise change the message that He wants His people to receive. Therefore I do not ever feel the need to go back to the original languages, except that in some cases it can be enlightening to realize the verb tenses for some of the words that we read in some verses. Such as in 1 John 1:7 where we find that the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin.

    My point? What we read in the English is sufficient to give us the accurate understanding of the message the Lord intended for us; and to be unsatisfied with the English and then to go back to pick out one of the many different words that any Greek word can be translated into, as an amateur Greek scholar, really has to do with not liking what the Bible says and wanting it to say something different (i.e. having itching ears; see 2 Timothy 4:3).
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  5. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    But not that we are saved by the doing of them.
     
  6. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    It is also a solid biblical hermeneutic that context never nullifies the plain message of any singular scripture passage.
     
  7. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Here is something from the middle of my

    Commentary on Romans.

    that should explain it well enough.

    This one is also important:

    Commentary on Romans.

    This one too:

    Commentary on Romans.

    While you're at it, you may as well read everything that is written in the commentary so far (beginning with the 1st post):

    Commentary on Romans.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  8. FollowHim

    FollowHim Active Member

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    Waiting on him, marks and Willie T like this.
  9. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Mountains all have their lowest base in the sea, and ocean islands are the tops of sea mountains, so I just see it that way. Jonah was swallowed by a sea creature, which then swam to bottom of the sea. For me it's simple.

    Jesus went to the center - the heart - of the earth, where sheol is, and preached to imprisoned spirits.

    Much love!
     
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  10. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    He also said he was in hell.

    Do you think that is a geographical place science could discover? I don't.
     
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  11. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I was asking if you thought that he had died and resurrected. Just curious. Me, I don't know.

    No, I don't foresee scientists observing this location. They wouldn't even try. They'd think they've got it all figured out. "There can't be a 'place of the dead' at the earth's core! It's solid iron!!"

    But for me, I don't have to see it, the Bible says it's there. And, of course, when Samuel returned to speak with King Saul, he came up from under the ground.

    Much love!
     
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  12. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    It is of the truth to a certain extent.

    Is not salvation based in a choice?

    We can choose to either surrender to God or else hold things back from Him.

    If we surrender, we have made a choice that will result in us being raptured (whether from the grave or whether we are alive and remain to the coming of the Lord).
     
  13. FollowHim

    FollowHim Active Member

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    All believers are raptured, if the rapture happens. There is no disqualification based on a previous questionaire lol.
     
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  14. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    We don't choose to believe?

    Also, those who believe must believe certain things in order to qualify as a believer, don't you think?

    For example, if someone rejects the doctrine of Christ's Deity, they will die in their sins (John 8:24).
     
  15. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure, but I think it was a spiritual journey outside of his body rather than a death and resurrection from the deah.


    I read "heart" to mean the center of spiritual evil -- when Jesus conquered death and hell.
    I think that was part of Samuel's soul that should have been permitted to sleep in the dust until God called it forth. It was a part of Samuel but not all of Samuel. I cannot believe God would permit necromancers to have control over the spirits of His children; but as long as the curse of death and hell were around, parts of their souls were subject to that curse and thus could be raised by necromancers.

    Were the "bodies" that were seen following the crucifixion as coming out of their graves were the same sort of entity that came up as Samuel? Were they reunited with their proper spirits?
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  16. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 11:19 KJV
    [19] And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

    This took place at Calvary
    Tecarta Bible
     
  17. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    1 Corinthians 15:52 KJV
    [52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    This is the seventh trumpet.
    Tecarta Bible
     
  18. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    It appears that the bema seat of Christ also takes place at the seventh trumpet.

    Rev 11:15, And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
    Rev 11:16, And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
    Rev 11:17, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
    Rev 11:18, And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
     
  19. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    2Ti 2:17, And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
    2Ti 2:18, Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
    2Ti 2:19, Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
     
  20. GISMYS_7

    GISMYS_7 Well-Known Member

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