If

[Bob Estey]

on this forum? Daily. Im a calvinist. You get used to it after a while though.

I don't know much about Calvinism. Do Calvinists believe in predestination?

 

[Bob Estey]

Yes, it is possible. We are still people. After being saved out of bondage in Egypt, how many of the 600,000 natural offspring of Israel, not including women and children, were wrong in the way they followed Moses and God in the wilderness? All but two!

What do you suppose life was like for the two?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

I don't know much about Calvinism. Do Calvinists believe in predestination?

absolutely.

 

[amadeus]

What do you suppose life was like for the two?

They were Joshua and Caleb. The scriptures tell us a little about Caleb and a bit more about Joshua, who took over from Moses to enter the Promised Land. Joshua stumbled a little. [One example was when he failed to consult with God before making a pact with the Gibeonites.]

Both men, from what I can see, walked with God to the end of their course. Difficult? Well after doing the right things as spies for Moses, they both suffered for 40 years as if they were among those who would not trust God. Would that have been easy?

Perhaps, not, but if they were not staying on God's side, they would not have been allowed to enter the Promised Land.

 

[Bob Estey]

absolutely.

So I can do anything I want, because my fate is already decided?

 

[Bob Estey]

They were Joshua and Caleb. The scriptures tell us a little about Caleb and a bit more about Joshua, who took over from Moses to enter the Promised Land. Joshua stumbled a little. [One example was when he failed to consult with God before making a pact with the Gibeonites.]

Both men, from what I can see, walked with God to the end of their course. Difficult? Well after doing the right things as spies for Moses, they both suffered for 40 years as if they were among those who would not trust God. Would that have been easy?

Perhaps, not, but if they were not staying on God's side, they would not have been allowed to enter the Promised Land.

I believe staying on God's side brings us peace of mind.

 

[Renniks]

In the back of my mind is this question: If most Christians believe something, should we assume they are right? In other words, is it possible most Christians are wrong about something?

Possible? Yes. Likely? No.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

So I can do anything I want, because my fate is already decided?

thats not what predestination means.

 

[Bob Estey]

thats not what predestination means.

What does it mean?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

What does it mean?

it means that God knew before the creation of the universe who would and would not be saved. Since no one seeks God on their own, some, often called the elect, are quickened to believe and receive salvation. In other words, if a person is saved, God chose that person and performed the necessary work in that person that they may be saved. You say you are saved. You think you chose that?? No, God called you to be saved.

 

[amadeus]

I believe staying on God's side brings us peace of mind.

Amen!

 

[Bob Estey]

it means that God knew before the creation of the universe who would and would not be saved. Since no one seeks God on their own, some, often called the elect, are quickened to believe and receive salvation. In other words, if a person is saved, God chose that person and performed the necessary work in that person that they may be saved. You say you are saved. You think you chose that?? No, God called you to be saved.

Thanks for the explanation. Is it fair that the Lord helps some people and not others?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Thanks for the explanation. Is it fair that the Lord helps some people and not others?

yes, because we all are sinners and none of us deserve salvation. Majority of mankind will goto hell, and that is just and fair.

 

[bbyrd009]

:rolleyes
cult-of-sol pagans, jesus already

So if 95% of Christians believe something is true, does that make it true?

LOL!

^

 

[bbyrd009]

But there are some things the vast majority of Christians believe to be true. Are we to assume those things are true?

well, can you find Scripture that refutes any of their beliefs, Bob?

My dad once told me you can find almost anything you want in the Bible.

"you don't read the Bible; the Bible reads you"

 

[Bob Estey]

yes, because we all are sinners and none of us deserve salvation. Majority of mankind will goto hell, and that is just and fair.

So if I covet my neighbor's car once, and rather than repenting, covet it again the day before I die, I desere to burn in hell for all eternity?

 

[Bob Estey]

:rolleyes
cult-of-sol pagans, jesus already

^

Your point being that if 95% of Christians believe something to be true, then it's true?

 

[Bob Estey]

well, can you find Scripture that refutes any of their beliefs, Bob?

Probably.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

So if I covet my neighbor's car once, and rather than repenting, covet it again the day before I die, I desere to burn in hell for all eternity?

the issue here is how to tell if someone is truly saved vs a false convert. Everyone sins. Daily. You cant stop that, but if a person says im a true christian, yet has a pattern of repeating the same sin over and over for a while, it stands that the person was never saved to begin with. If you are truly saved however, all our sins, past, present, and future are forgiven the moment you are justified.

 

[Bob Estey]

the issue here is how to tell if someone is truly saved vs a false convert. Everyone sins. Daily. You cant stop that, but if a person says im a true christian, yet has a pattern of repeating the same sin over and over for a while, it stands that the person was never saved to begin with. If you are truly saved however, all our sins, past, present, and future are forgiven the moment you are justified.

I think the issue is justice. Is it just to burn someone in hell for eternity for any group of sins he might have committed?