I'm Pretty Sure That Jesus Wasn't Talking About This

[Grailhunter]

No, Jesus rebuked peter because Jesus arrest was necessary to accomplish Jesus mission.

John 18:10
10 Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant’s name was Malchus. 11 So Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?”

Not sure if this was a rebuke. And Christ had plans for Peter...he would not have survived if he would have continued.

 

[Grailhunter]

quoting scripture out of context or with a skewed paradigm justifies nothing. What it does if anything is make a God out of scripture.

Well you should stop doing that if you do not like that.
For me I never do that. I am spot on every time. If you study a little you might learn some thing.

 

[Grailhunter]

That's not what the text says. It says "because who ever lives by the sword will die by the sword"--a rule that continued in effect over the Apostles lifetimes, which explains why they never used violence.

Is this kinda like, he who rides a horse, smells like a horse. Warriors do have a tendency to die. Followers of Christ had a tendency to die. and as Christ said, He who tries to save his life will lose it. And the Apostles did obey Christ when He told them to get swords.

 

[GracePeace]

We know a temple guard who would refute that.
And we know there are money changers who would testify their rabbi, master, chased them from in front of his ( father's) house brandishing a whip fashioned by his own hand.

It looks like we've already offered all our arguments and it's up to the readers to decide.

 

[GracePeace]

Is this kinda like, he who rides a horse, smells like a horse. Warriors do have a tendency to die. Followers of Christ had a tendency to die. and as Christ said, He who tries to save his life will lose it. And the Apostles did obey Christ when He told them to get swords.

Jesus explicitly forbade violent resistance to protect Him.
In fact, they went and offered salvation to the very men who crucified Jesus Acts 2.
All of the Apostles, except John, were martyred and did not command violent resistance or retribution.
Paul was stoned and offered no violent resistance or retribution.
Paul was beaten with rods and commanded no violent resistance or retribution.
No commands are given in the New Testament regarding enacting violence.

You are in the wrong--but everyone should already know that since you reject Scripture (are not "Fundamentalist").

"We are like sheep led the slaughter."--that describes Christians.
Already told you this but you pretend I haven't.

 

[Amazed@grace]

It looks like we've already offered all our arguments and it's up to the readers to decide.

Readers of the Bible.
The apostle brothers, James and John, were called , Sons of Thunder, by Jesus.

 

[GracePeace]

Readers of the Bible.
The apostle brothers, James and John, were called , Sons of Thunder, by Jesus.

In that same context, Jesus said violence was a mismatch with the Holy Spirit, at this time.

Already addressed this.

Please do not continue raising points that have already been addressed.

 

[Grailhunter]

Jesus explicitly forbade violent resistance to protect Him.

Scripture please....especially on the words explicitly forbade. LOL

All of the Apostles, except John, were martyred and did not command violent resistance.
Paul was stoned and offered no violent resistance.
Paul was beaten with rods and commanded no violent resistance or retribution.
No commands are given in the New Testament regarding enacting violence.

First off, since we are in agreeance on this...you are creating an argument that is not there. And accusing me of something that is not true. Are you deceitful or is it that you cannot focus your head?
Christ and the Apostles taught love and peace...post biblical Christians got that message.
So for about 275 years the Christians were tortured and murdered as entertainment for the Romans.
Martyrdom was away of life.

Now what I have objected to on this thread was that God the Father or God the Son were pacifists. By no stretch of the imagination are they pacifist.
But they did teach Christians to be pacifists, and the reason for that, God only knows.
But I do know that God did not teach the Jews that.

 

[GracePeace]

Scripture please....especially on the words explicitly forbade. LOL

Why waste my time? You're not a Fundamentalist.
You don't take Scripture seriously.
You even have the audacity to faultfind the Apostles.
I reject your ideas.
I have no interest in conversing with you--I'll talk about Scripture, then you'll just say "I'm not a Fundamentalist".
Maybe if you took Scripture seriously things could be different.
Not interested in wasting my time.

 

[quietthinker]

We know a temple guard who would refute that.
And we know there are money changers who would testify their rabbi, master, chased them from in front of his ( father's) house brandishing a whip fashioned by his own hand.

sedentary animals languishing in the summer sun are not easily moved by words....it requires the crack of a whip to awaken them from their stupor. That whip was never intended for people.

 

[Grailhunter]

Why waste my time? You're not a Fundamentalist.
You don't take Scripture seriously.

Well I could say that you only take the first 65 years of God interaction with Christians seriously. Thinking that God retired or someone tied Him up?
But on the other hand I do agree with the reform, it needed to happen. And being that they were not historians, going back to the Bible as the basics was a safe bet. But some are interested in more than the basics.

You even have the audacity to faultfind the Apostles.

Give examples...The Apostles were humans...so what do you mean?

Maybe if you took Scripture seriously things could be different.

I take scriptures and God seriously.

But I agree that we have nothing to talk about.

 

[GracePeace]

Well I could say that you only take the first 65 years of God interaction with Christians seriously. Thinking that God retired or someone tied Him up?
But on the other hand I do agree with the reform, it needed to happen. And being that they were not historians, going back to the Bible as the basics was a safe bet. But some are interested in more than the basics.



Give examples...The Apostles were humans...so what do you mean?


I take scriptures and God seriously.

But I agree that we have nothing to talk about.

Yeah, who cares about "basics"--go join Islam, they came WAY later, and are WAY more "advanced".

 

[Grailhunter]

Yeah, who cares about "basics"--go join Islam, they came WAY later, and are WAY more "advanced".

Nope

 

[Amazed@grace]

sedentary animals languishing in the summer sun are not easily moved by words....it requires the crack of a whip to awaken them from their stupor. That whip was never intended for people.

That isn't in the scripture. It's a personal opinion.
Jesus overturned the moneychangers tables, which would cause the gathered sacrificial animals to scatter.
Jesus was angry at the money changers. His handmade corded whip was used to drive out the moneychangers and the sheep and oxen too.

 

[Amazed@grace]

John 18:10
10 Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant’s name was Malchus. 11 So Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?”

Not sure if this was a rebuke. And Christ had plans for Peter...he would not have survived if he would have continued.

Likely not being there were more armed temple guards than that of Jesus disciples.
We see there though that Jesus told Peter to cease his defense of him because the arrest was part of Jesus accepting his fate. The cup that had been given him.

The notion that the disciples and Jesus were strong passifists is dispelled by those scriptures that tell us Jesus commanded his disciples to buy swords. And that indeed Peter had one and knew how to use it well welln he sliced a man's ear off with it.

Passifists don't carry weapons.

 

[amigo de christo]

Slow down a bit and smell the coffee.

Jesus did just stand there and he took it. He did not try to run away when they came for him in the garden led by one of his own followers [Judas] and he did not resist at all. This is what he says about himself and his sacrifice of his own physical life:

"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father" John 10:17-18

Jesus did it! Why would we not do the same if God asked it of us? Does God ask the same things of every person? People really were put out in the arena in Rome because they refuse to deny their faith in God and His Son. These are hard times today, and they may get worse. What does Jesus say about persecution?

"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also." John 15:20

What do Apostle Paul's words here mean?

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Rom 12:1-2

And then the specific reference about not resisting evil according to Jesus:

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain." Matt 5:38-41

Why did God create us? What does He expect or require from us?

Yes my friend . Jesus sure did mean this . Let us take Him at his every word . Loving , embracing all things He did teach .
Some tormentors have been won to Christ , by those who did not resist the evil . But rather they prayed for them .
We ought to think again of what we truly do deserve , and yet For our sakes , JESUS took on the punishments
and even upon the cross some of His last words were Father forgive them .
Notice too that stephen did not pick up rocks to throw back at them . He even prayed and said , LORD do not hold this to their charge .
Another wonderful example of the love of God is when paul and another were in prison .
And a great earthquake stuck . The guard was ready to kill himself . THEY COULD HAVE WAITED FOR HIM TO DO SO
and walked right out . BUT THEIR HEART was TO HIS GOOD . THEY STOPPED HIM , and that man CAME TO JESUS .
YES INDEED . Let us learn every thing JESUS taught and by the HOLY GHOST KEEP IT ON OUR hearts and minds .

 

[Amazed@grace]

In that same context, Jesus said violence was a mismatch with the Holy Spirit, at this time.

Already addressed this.

Please do not continue raising points that have already been addressed.

OK. You choose to believe and change scripture to your liking, as you've demonstrated. Given that in point of fact you haven't actually addressed scripture.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Likely not being there were more armed temple guards than that of Jesus disciples.
We see there though that Jesus told Peter to cease his defense of him because the arrest was part of Jesus accepting his fate. The cup that had been given him.

The notion that the disciples and Jesus were strong passifists is dispelled by those scriptures that tell us Jesus commanded his disciples to buy swords. And that indeed Peter had one and knew how to use it well welln he sliced a man's ear off with it.

Passifists don't carry weapons.

Some say that Peter was aiming for the guy’s neck , but because he was so inexperienced at sword battling, he accidentally cut off the man’s ear.......he missed his intended target....

 

[GracePeace]

OK. You choose to believe and change scripture to your liking, as you've demonstrated. Given that in point of fact you haven't actually addressed scripture.

I, of course, am rejecting this false accusation--anyone can read my responses and see I've neither "changed Scripture to my liking" nor failed to "actually address Scripture". Maybe the fact that you feel so free to accuse me of these things is proof you haven't read as carefully as I've responded.

 

[amadeus]

Yes my friend . Jesus sure did mean this . Let us take Him at his every word . Loving , embracing all things He did teach .
Some tormentors have been won to Christ , by those who did not resist the evil . But rather they prayed for them .
We ought to think again of what we truly do deserve , and yet For our sakes , JESUS took on the punishments
and even upon the cross some of His last words were Father forgive them .
Notice too that stephen did not pick up rocks to throw back at them . He even prayed and said , LORD do not hold this to their charge .
Another wonderful example of the love of God is when paul and another were in prison .
And a great earthquake stuck . The guard was ready to kill himself . THEY COULD HAVE WAITED FOR HIM TO DO SO
and walked right out . BUT THEIR HEART was TO HIS GOOD . THEY STOPPED HIM , and that man CAME TO JESUS .
YES INDEED . Let us learn every thing JESUS taught and by the HOLY GHOST KEEP IT ON OUR hearts and minds .

Give God the glory! He may well bless us with long life and minimal pain, but on the other hand it could go very bad for us here as it did for young Stephen when they stoned him to death. This is only testing ground. We need to take whatever is dished out to us. Our reward is not to be demanded by us here. We deserve nothing, just thank God that He is with us to make it bearable in spite of any pain. It is a short time in any case even if we were to live 100 or more years in it.

Give God the glory!