Importance of Doctrine

[Stranger]

While your answer is a good one it doesn't really answer my question. I see the answer in this verse describing three things that need to be overcome:

"For all that is in the world, 1) the lust of the flesh, and 2) the lust of the eyes, and 3) the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

Those three things in us, when they are followed will lead us to sin. We are to overcome their attraction to us. Jesus came to provide the means to do so.

Too many people come to Jesus and believe there is nothing then left in them that needs to be done. I do not believe that. We start as babes in Christ, but we must grow into a maturity in Christ.

Did I ever say we are not to mature in Christ? What did I say to make you think I don't believe we are to mature in Christ? And, how does that affect your doctrine?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

@Stranger ....thank you for talking time to answer my question.

But also...Do you not believe that we are called to " rest in Him' ..and live stress free lives , in TRUST?
I'd like to see you more confident in the Lord...He will bring all things into His order.
You are called to " enjoy the journey" ..not just enjoy the end bit.
"God walked with Adam in the cool of the evening."
I have a feeling that sometimes He almost has to 'run to catch up with you!!'

Every blessing ....H.

You're quite welcome.

Yes, we do have the rest of God to strive to enter into. But, if we do enter into it here, will we be stress free? Isn't it sort of like courage. Courage is not the absence of fear, but is doing your duty in the face of fear. Staying your position when everything in you says 'run'. So, though all else falls around me, I trust God in the midst of these things falling around me. I don't think 'rest' is the absence of stress. It is the ability to stay in a stressful situation, which you feel, because of your faith and the Spirit of God supporting you. You feel the stress, yet God over rides it with His assurance and confidence.

Appreciate your encouraging words.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Doesn't sound like a very pleasant existence.

Well, it is my experience. No matter what doctrine a believer has, he always has a unique relationship with Jesus Christ that no other believer has. (Rev. 2:17) "...and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."

Stranger

 

[amadeus]

Did I ever say we are not to mature in Christ? What did I say to make you think I don't believe we are to mature in Christ? And, how does that affect your doctrine?

Stranger

Was I contradicting your words or presenting an argument? That was certainly not my intention.

 

[FHII]

One can have a wrong doctrine but the right heart and even with doctrinal error, Jesus gives a revelation of His love.

Example, Mary Magdalene at the tomb believing Jesus is still dead and asks the gardener where He is and even though she walked and talked with Jesus she didn't know the gardener was Jesus. It's a serious doctrinal flaw not believing in the resurrection but Jesus doesn't turn her away, He reveals Himself by saying her name and her heart leapt with joy. Knowing Jesus is wonderful, having the right doctrine is great but what is more wonderful and great is knowing that Jesus loves you, knows you by name and will reveal Himself to you.

Hi Armadillo

Not sure I can agree with your opening statement. Your example of Mary is good, and there are many others we can look at in the same way. Saul (Paul) had doctrinal error. Peter had lots of it too. But there is a flaw which must be addressed: they were corrected. They didn't keep the wrong doctrine once they were taught and physically shown the truth.

So I think you can be wrong and still have salvation, but you can't continue in that false doctrine when its proven wrong.

I think its important to strive for mastery. But not vital. Paul arguably was the most knowledgable man in terms of doctrine (certainly in the top 12 at the time, yet I believe he was the top one) and he said he only knew in part. On the other end of the spectrum, the thef on the cross only knew on positional point of doctrine. He of course met Jesus in paradise.

 

[Helen]

So I think you can be wrong and still have salvation, but you can't continue in that false doctrine when its proven wrong.

Hi there.
I think God is bigger than that. I guess depends whether the person is just stubborn of if they "cannot see".....many just can't see it yet.
I am sure we all have a mental rule book as to which has the correct doctrine. ( even on this site, I read something a person wrote and think, "Lord straighten that out for them." They do really believe it!!
People believe things that make me raise my eyebrows.)
RELATIONSHIP far outweighs doctrine....relationship is heart..doctrine is mostly in the head with most people.. If we walk in a relationship hand in hand with the Lord...we cannot go far wrong.
If we love God and love our neighbour, we can't go far wrong.
We could hold the perfect doctrine ..and have a cold hard heart toward others!!

Doctrine is always 'right' in the eyes of the one who is telling the other person, that they are wrong.
I think most of us will be surprised when we meet Father face to face.

Bless you...H

 

[FHII]

Hi there.
I think God is bigger than that. I guess depends whether the person is just stubborn of if they "cannot see".....many just can't see it yet.
I am sure we all have a mental rule book as to which has the correct doctrine. ( even on this site, I read something a person wrote and think, "Lord straighten that out for them." They do really believe it!!
People believe things that make me raise my eyebrows.)
RELATIONSHIP far outweighs doctrine....relationship is heart..doctrine is mostly in the head with most people.. If we walk in a relationship hand in hand with the Lord...we cannot go far wrong.
If we love God and love our neighbour, we can't go far wrong.
We could hold the perfect doctrine ..and have a cold hard heart toward others!!

Doctrine is always 'right' in the eyes of the one who is telling the other person, that they are wrong.
I think most of us will be surprised when we meet Father face to face.

Bless you...H

I don't always choose the best words to say what I mean, but sometimes I am extremely careful in what I say. This is one of those times.

I say you can't stay in false doctrine when PROVEN wrong. Not told wrong, yet when shown it is wrong. In Armadillo's post he brought up Mary not recognizing Jesus after the ressurection. She was without a doubt shown the truth.

I actually like stubborness. We aren't to be reeds shaking in the wind, afterall. I put up with "cannot see". It simply means the explanation isn't clear and needs to be. Bot always the fault of the person who can't see...

I don't see relationship and doctrine really in competition as to which is more important. I see doctrine as knowledge and vital to a relationship.

 

[Helen]

@FHII ....indeed...I can agree with that.

 

[Armadillo]

We grow in the knowledge of grace and truth just like Paul and Peter did and the Holy Spirit is our teacher and guide bringing us joy and peace. Who proves the doctrine is false? It's not what you think or feel is the right or wrong doctrine that matters, it's what brings peace that matters and that can only come from the Holy Spirit, you can only live in the light you've been given. The more knowledge you have of Jesus and who you are in Him (relationship) is when you will feel complete and have joy learning more about Him.

 

[pia]

Looking in my Bible Dictionary under 'Doctrine' it goes on to say the following :" The earliest doctrine of the Christian church declared that 1) Jesus was the Messiah, the Christ........2) That God raised Him from the dead...........3) That salvation comes by faith in His Name.
These three truths were presented as a clear fulfillment of the Old Testament and Paul taught that this true doctrine was essential for the growth of the church, and that false doctrine destroys the church.
In an ordinary dictionary is merely states : Instruction, whatever is taught; a principle in any science.
So as long as 'whatever is taught' is an actual truth, that doctrine is sound, but how much have men added to the pure Word of truth ? In the same way Jesus had to correct the Pharisees as they had added to and perverted the law, we are in dire need of being corrected because we have all been told by various churches and doctrines, things that were never meant to be...... How can I say this ? Just look around and see all the division in what is supposed to be His Holy body, His representatives here upon the earth.
If people keep insisting on playing church with mans understanding and goodness knows how many different doctrines, rather than by revelation, by and through The Holy spirit of God, it will go nowhere, produce no fruit and certainly NOT show the power of God.... Is this really what believers want? I think not! So let us all humble ourselves before the mighty hand of God, admit to Him, that we don't know anything apart from Him, and then be willing to be taught by HIM and not men.
As Jesus said :" To him who has ears to hear, more will be given." So let us begin to listen !

 

[Job]

I never am, happy or relaxed.

Well, it is my experience. No matter what doctrine a believer has, he always has a unique relationship with Jesus Christ that no other believer has. (Rev. 2:17) "...and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."

Stranger

It still sounds pretty dismal to me. To never be happy and always on edge......

Oh well...

 

[mjrhealth]

I think most of us will be surprised when we meet Father face to face.

I like some have met father face to face, and that is why I am always wrong, it is He who is always right.

 

[mjrhealth]

The more knowledge you have of Jesus

Knowledge is not a relation ship. The only way you can know Jesus is to spend all your time with Him, many on this forum read my posts, and some may sat they know me, but do they know what I have for breakfast, or what my favorite beverage is, or the color of my eyes,?? No because they dont know me. When you can sit and talk to Jesus and see Him standing with you, than you will know that you know Jesus and that is something no one can take from you.

 

[tabletalk]

"Knowledge is not a relation ship. The only way you can know Jesus is to spend all your time with Him, many on this forum read my posts, and some may sat they know me, but do they know what I have for breakfast, or what my favorite beverage is, or the color of my eyes,?? No because they dont know me. When you can sit and talk to Jesus and see Him standing with you, than you will know that you know Jesus and that is something no one can take from you."

You didn't use a verse to explain this doctrine: what verse teaches people to have this relationship with Jesus ("sit and talk... and standing with you")?

 

[Stranger]

Was I contradicting your words or presenting an argument? That was certainly not my intention.

My point is that growing and maturing in Christ and having a doctrine are not opposed to one another. In fact they will, or should grow together.

Stranger

 

[mjrhealth]

what verse teaches people to have this relationship with Jesus

Silly question, can you know someone by reading a book about them. People have lived with people for years than that very same person did something they never thought possible And you think you can know Jesus by reading teh bible???

Rev_3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

or

Joh_5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

or

Mat_17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

What do you think Jesus died for, to give you a book,? God gave us Jesus, you can lean from Him or lean on your own undestanding. God gave us His best, the question one must ask, Is He not enough??

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

You desire to know Jesus, talk to Him, than He will show Himself, want to know Love, next time you going to buy yourself something and you see some poor women at teh shops cant afford her groceries, God prompts you to give her your money, what would you . That is how God teaches men about Himself. It is teh only way you can know Him.

 

[tabletalk]

Silly question, can you know someone by reading a book about them. People have lived with people for years than that very same person did something they never thought possible And you think you can know Jesus by reading teh bible???

Rev_3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

or

Joh_5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

or

Mat_17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

What do you think Jesus died for, to give you a book,? God gave us Jesus, you can lean from Him or lean on your own undestanding. God gave us His best, the question one must ask, Is He not enough??

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

You desire to know Jesus, talk to Him, than He will show Himself, want to know Love, next time you going to buy yourself something and you see some poor women at teh shops cant afford her groceries, God prompts you to give her your money, what would you . That is how God teaches men about Himself. It is teh only way you can know Him.

Those Bible verses you quoted do not teach what you claim from your post #73: "When you can sit and talk to Jesus and see Him standing with you, than you will know that you know Jesus and that is something no one can take from you."

 

[Angelina]

Hey @amadeus are you new? I think I might know you bro...

 

[bbyrd009]

And Lincoln was no King David.

ya, he never murdered anyone for sex that i am aware of lol

 

[bbyrd009]

I disagree. Our doctrine should never change because our heart changes. We are to have a heart after God. And we are to have sound doctrine. Our heart doesn't dictate our doctrine.

yikes. Yet Paul described his "doctrine" as his "manner of living." We have reduced "doctrine" to the things we say we believe; signs made to hang on the wall and verbally repeat, now.

I would say that your doctrine has changed in the last three months, because you have changed, quite a bit imo. If your heart does not dictate your doctrine, then you have no doctrine i guess. If you start with bad doctrine (manner of living) then you can only change your doctrine as your heart changes, it seems to me.

"Doctrine" does not mean "platitudes that reflect truth verbally" at least until one accepts that definition imo