Davy
Well-Known Member
Like I showed, one must... keep to the flow of the whole chapter, and not just do an isolated interpretation on that single Daniel 12:11 verse.
In Bed at the Appearing
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Davy
Well-Known Member
The Revelation 11 chapter reveals God's two witnesses will prophesy against the beast for a period of 1260 days, and then be killed, their bodies left unburied, as written. And then 3.5 days after, the 7th Trumpet sounds showing the day of Christ's future coming and reign. So are you trying to tell me that is not written, and that you prefer to make Daniel 12:11 DISAGREE with all that?
According to Lord Jesus in His Olivet discourse, the "abomination of desolation" event is what STARTS the time of "great tribulation". So just like in Dan.12, one MUST learn to KEEP the subject flow also in Christ's Olivet discourse (Matthew 24; Mark 13).
Lord Jesus also gave us signs in Revelation to know when the "great tribulation" will begin. He showed it by the last 3 Trumpet - Woe periods.
1st Woe Period - the 5th Trumpet:
That is prep time for the grand deception, Satan's locust army workers preparing the deceived for false Messiah's coming.
2nd Woe Period - the 6th Trumpet:
In this period, the angels bound at the river Euphrates prepared for a specific hour, day, month, and a year, are loosed, representing the start of the "great tribulation". This 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period continues all the way to Revelation 11 with God's two witnesses in Jerusalem prophesying for 1260 days.
3rd Woe Period - the 7th Trumpet:
The day of Lord Jesus return and to take reign over all the earth and over all nations and peoples.
So even by just following the 'events' in the 3 Woe periods Lord Jesus showed us, that's a way also of confirming that 1260 days to the 'end', for the latter half of the Daniel 9:27 symbolic "one week".
Well I have.The abomination of desolation isn't placed in Jerusalem 30 days after Christ comes and reigns.It is placed on the day of the Lord.The same day as the resurrection.
I'm not saying Dan 12:1-2 disagree with the day of the Lord when the two witnesses ascend into heaven in a cloud.
I'm saying they agree.The abomination that causes Jerusalems desolation is the device placed in Jerusalem by the armed forces that causes that cloud to rise and that earthquake.
It did the same thing in Hiroshima when it was placed in that city as well.
It caused the heavens to burn with a fervent heat on the day and Hiroshima lay desolate.
The people left in Jerusalem after it is placed will being walking in a furnace with Christ.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Like I have said, and how God's Word shows, the "abomination of desolation" event kicks off the time of "great tribulation" which is represented by a period of 1260 days, or a time, times, and half a time, or 42 months.
Matt 24:15-21
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV
Keeping to the subject flow there by Lord Jesus, that "abomination of desolation" event is what kicks off the time of the "great tribulation". That is NOT the END. It is 1260 days PRIOR to the END. It is specifically the 'middle' of the Daniel 9:27 symbolic "one week" (7 years). Thus Daniel's "one week" is divided into TWO 1260 days periods. The placing of the "abomination of desolation" in Jerusalem by the coming Antichrist is what STARTS the latter 1260 day period.
So I fail to see why you are having problems understanding that.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I have not... been discussing the Daniel 12:1-2 verses, because it's so easy to understand what timing that is. The verse in Daniel 12 you are having a problem with is verse 11 about the 1290 days.
So like I have said, are you seriously wanting to change all those other Scripture confirmations I showed you about the latter 1260 day great tribulation and then the end?
If you try to interpret 1290 days from the placing of the "abomination of desolation" to the 'end', then that dumps the Rev.11 Scripture, and also Christ's Olivet discourse He gave us about the events leading to the end.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Uh, where did you get all that from? It kind of reveals you don't really understand what the "abomination of desolation" event really is.
Are you thinking that "abomination of desolation" event means a DESTRUCTION EVENT? It does not.
The "abomination of desolation" event Jesus quoted from Daniel 11:31 is about the coming Antichrist placing an IDOL abomination inside the temple in Jerusalem, and demanding that all bow in worship to it. That is the "image of the beast" event foretold in Revelation 13 for the tribulation time. Thus the idea of "desolation" with that means SPIRITUAL DESOLATION inside a Jewish temple in Jerusalem.
And historically, God has given us a 'blueprint' for that coming event at the end of this world. Back in 165 B.C., one Antiochus Epiphanes took Jerusalem with an army, ended the Jew's daily sacrifices, and went inside the Jew's temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar, and spread its broth around inside the temple, SPIRITUALLY DESOLATING it. Then he setup an idol in Zeus worship in that temple, and demanded that all bow to it in worship. Lord Jesus forewarned of that kind of event in Jerusalem for the coming great tribulation, as He quoted from Daniel 11 about it, and Antiochus had already been dead for around 200 years when Jesus quoted Daniel, thus pointing to the tribulation just prior to the 'end'.
Davy
Well-Known Member
So just to be clear on the 'order' of events per God's Word...
1. the placing of the IDOL abomination in a rebuilt stone temple built by the Jews, kicks off the time of "great tribulation" Lord Jesus forewarned of. The first part of the Dan.9 "one week", a period of 1260 days, has already been completed by this point of this idol abomination being setup in a temple in Jerusalem. The placing of this abomination in the new temple in Jerusalem represents the start of the latter 1260 day period of Daniel's "one week."
2. Jesus said for those of His in Jerusalem to get out of Judea when they see that "abomination of desolation" idol in the temple at Jerusalem. He also said for those of His in the countries to not enter into Jerusalem in that time.
3. During this time of "great tribulation", the coming pseudo-Christ to Jerusalem will exalt himself as God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshiped. That means he will sit over ALL religions upon earth. Jesus proclaimed him attempting to pass himself off as The Christ, that he would work great signs and wonders so deceptive, that it would, IF it were possible, deceive even His own very elect.
4. God's two witnesses will appear in Jerusalem and prophesy against the beast for 1260 days. The Gentiles will tread the holy city for 42 months. Both periods represent the "time, times, and an half" of the Book of Daniel for when God's servants will be persecuted prior to Christ's future return.
5. Then after the 1260 days, God's two witnesses are to be killed in Jerusalem by the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit (i.e., Satan, the 'dragon'). Their bodies will be left unburied. Then 3.5 days later, they rise.
6. Next event is Christ's coming on the 7th Trumpet. This will end the 1260 days time of "great tribulation".
7. Then 30 days after the "great tribulation" of 1260 days, the 1290 period will take place.
8. Then 45 days after the 1290 days, the 1335 day period will take place, and those who come to it are blessed.
1. the placing of the IDOL abomination in a rebuilt stone temple built by the Jews, kicks off the time of "great tribulation" Lord Jesus forewarned of. The first part of the Dan.9 "one week", a period of 1260 days, has already been completed by this point of this idol abomination being setup in a temple in Jerusalem. The placing of this abomination in the new temple in Jerusalem represents the start of the latter 1260 day period of Daniel's "one week."
2. Jesus said for those of His in Jerusalem to get out of Judea when they see that "abomination of desolation" idol in the temple at Jerusalem. He also said for those of His in the countries to not enter into Jerusalem in that time.
3. During this time of "great tribulation", the coming pseudo-Christ to Jerusalem will exalt himself as God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshiped. That means he will sit over ALL religions upon earth. Jesus proclaimed him attempting to pass himself off as The Christ, that he would work great signs and wonders so deceptive, that it would, IF it were possible, deceive even His own very elect.
4. God's two witnesses will appear in Jerusalem and prophesy against the beast for 1260 days. The Gentiles will tread the holy city for 42 months. Both periods represent the "time, times, and an half" of the Book of Daniel for when God's servants will be persecuted prior to Christ's future return.
5. Then after the 1260 days, God's two witnesses are to be killed in Jerusalem by the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit (i.e., Satan, the 'dragon'). Their bodies will be left unburied. Then 3.5 days later, they rise.
6. Next event is Christ's coming on the 7th Trumpet. This will end the 1260 days time of "great tribulation".
7. Then 30 days after the "great tribulation" of 1260 days, the 1290 period will take place.
8. Then 45 days after the 1290 days, the 1335 day period will take place, and those who come to it are blessed.
Ohhh no my friend.The great tribulation is the end.According to Daniel the end starts in Daniel11:40Like I have said, and how God's Word shows, the "abomination of desolation" event kicks off the time of "great tribulation" which is represented by a period of 1260 days, or a time, times, and half a time, or 42 months.
Matt 24:15-21
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV
Keeping to the subject flow there by Lord Jesus, that "abomination of desolation" event is what kicks off the time of the "great tribulation". That is NOT the END. It is 1260 days PRIOR to the END. It is specifically the 'middle' of the Daniel 9:27 symbolic "one week" (7 years). Thus Daniel's "one week" is divided into TWO 1260 days periods. The placing of the "abomination of desolation" in Jerusalem by the coming Antichrist is what STARTS the latter 1260 day period.
So I fail to see why you are having problems understanding that.
The great tribulation is in Daniel 12:1-2
Daniel 12:1-2
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.
The great tribulation is the same day the two witnesses are raised from the dead.Resurection day.The day of the Lord.
And yes,it is on this day the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
There was a person on worthy who used to use the name shilohsfoal . He and another named Shiloh used to debate at times .
Lots of folks ended up getting banned from worthy or put in the digital ghetto called marshill .
are you that shilohsfoal from worthy . If so do you know where yowm or davida might be .
I don't know what your talking about.
I said the abomination that causes desolation would be placed 1290 days after the daily sacrifice is abolished.
Daniel 12:11
From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
Jesus said there would be great tribulation when the abomination that causes desolation is placed in Jerusalem.
Mathew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
He was quoting Daniel 12:1 which is when the abomination of desolation is placed.It is at that time Daniels people are delivered.The 144000 are sealed with their father's name in their foreheads.They had made it to the end.
Daniel 12:1
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.
Mathew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
The abomination of desolation is placed at the end.
I've been on there but haven't for about 4-5 months or so.I don't know where they are.You don't suppose they could be posting under different names do you?
Davy
Well-Known Member
No, the "great tribulation" is NOT... the 'end'. The 'end' only will happen on the "day of the Lord", the day of Jesus' future return. The tribulation happens PRIOR to the 'end', specifically 1260 days prior.
And no again, God's two witnesses are raised on the last day, the "day of the Lord" when Jesus returns, which is the 'end' of this world. The great tribulation is their time when they will prophesy for 1260 days, as written in Revelation 11.
Obviously, you are confused about the timing of the "great tribulation".
No,I don't believe we will agree on much.
The abomination that causes jerusalems desolation is a nuclear warhead.Its placed by the armed forces of the king of the north after Israel is overrun by it's enemies the Islamic beast.
I think we may as well end our debate cause we are no where close on anything.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Well, you've shown me you're not interested in following with the actual Bible Scriptures, so I have no reason to try and help you. Those who cannot be counciled cannot be helped.
- Dec 31, 2010
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Well...
Give me all the dates...
Give me all the trumpets...
Give me all the seals...
Then... Christ comes not as a thief! Paul said...
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thessalonians 2:3
Man of sin be revealed... Another words there will be an Elon Musk type guy who will advertise a unique scannable tattoo. When this happens the great appearing will take place in which the dead in Christ will rise first and we that remain will meet the Lord in the air. The post-trib wording of 2 Thessalonians...
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, the man of sin be revealed, great tribulation; and then the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ - 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (as the Post Trib bunch would have it)
In which wasn't worded post-trib.
Give me all the dates...
Give me all the trumpets...
Give me all the seals...
Then... Christ comes not as a thief! Paul said...
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thessalonians 2:3
Man of sin be revealed... Another words there will be an Elon Musk type guy who will advertise a unique scannable tattoo. When this happens the great appearing will take place in which the dead in Christ will rise first and we that remain will meet the Lord in the air. The post-trib wording of 2 Thessalonians...
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, the man of sin be revealed, great tribulation; and then the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ - 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (as the Post Trib bunch would have it)
In which wasn't worded post-trib.
So you believe the resurrection takes place 1260 days before the end.hmmm
Yea we don't agree on anything.
Daniel said the resurrection takes place on the day of the great tribulation.
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I don't think Elon musk fits the description of the king of the north.
We are looking for a despicable person.Elon doesn't have that kind of personality.Someone like Putin or Trump would fit the bill.
Daniel 11:21
And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
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You've shown me your not interested in knowing the resurrection takes place on the day of the great tribulation.How can you continue to ignore these two verses?
Daniel 12:1-2
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I'm aware that you are Pre-trib, or least you used to be. That is not what God's written Word shows. Jesus showed that His coming to gather His faithful saints will be after... the tribulation, as written in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27. And that Scripture parallels what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the gathering to Christ.
And Jesus said He comes "as a thief" (Rev.16:15). He covered that idea in His Olivet discourse also. In Rev.16 He said that on the 6th Vial timing, and was speaking to His Church on earth there.
Both Apostles Paul and Peter proclaimed the "day of the Lord" would come "as a thief in the night", and that is the timing Lord Jesus was pointing to with His "Behold, I come as a thief". That means the LAST DAY of this present world. That is when that "day of the Lord" will happen.
In 1 Thessalonians 5, Apostle Paul was giving Christ's Church a Sign of an event to happen on that last day when the "day of the Lord" will come. Paul showed the deceived will be saying, "Peace and safety", and then "sudden destruction" will come upon them.
The way Peter showed the "day of the Lord" is on the last day of this world, is with the elements of man's works being burned off this earth on that day, per 2 Peter 3:10.
That is the understanding a disciple of Jesus Christ should... have which is with 'staying' in His Word in order to become one of His disciples...
John 8:31-32
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on Him, "If ye continue in My word, then are ye My disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
KJV
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