"In Christ" = Never ends.

[Behold]

I understand that you are only capable of seeing purposely being obedient to God as you working to save yourself. .

No, thats not it..
What you are not understanding is something that i teach everywhere.
Its this..

1.) Salvation is NOT Discipleship.

Most Christians, think that their Discipleship, or as you define it,...being obedient ,.....is their Salvation.
But its not.
See, Discipleship is NOT Salvation.....as Discipleship, is what YOU DO......and Salvation is what God did for you, as "the GIFT of Salvation".

Think of it like this, ... You can be a disciple of Christ, and cast out devils, and build 40 worldwide Churches that are all full every Sunday.... and die one day and meet God, and be told...>"depart from me, i never new you".
That happens.

And why is that? Because discipleship is not salvation, and its not a disciple that goes to heaven, its only someone who is born again.

So, Heaven is gained not be discipleship, but by being born again.
This is why Jesus didn't say..>"you must be an obedient disciple"......but rather He tells us in John 3, that we "MUST be born again".

And why is that?

Its because all your communion taking, and church membership, and speaking in Tongues, and living for the Lord, and Bible reading, and laying your hands on the sick, and casting out demons, and vows of poverty....cannot pay for your sin and redeem you from them.
And if your sin is not taken care of by the Blood of Jesus, then Jesus says you are not born again, and you "will die in your sins".
= John 3:36

Only the Blood of Jesus can take care of your sin, and the proof that is has, is to be "born again", of which Jesus said "YOU MUST BE".

Discipleship does not deal with redeeming your sin , so, being a good one or being not one at all, has no effect on being Saved or Lost, or "born again".

 

[Behold]

Just explain to us why the spirit of the sinner at Corinth will be damned when Christ returns if he does not get turned over to satan for the crucifying of his sin in his flesh.

I have a better idea, as i dont need to learn this.....you do..

Learn that God and Christ and the Holy Spirit are in the Born again.....Sealed.
We have become the "Temple of God" for eternity.
This means, literally, that we, the "New Creation in Christ", are "ONE" ...born again INTO GOD...
"Christ in you, the hope of Glory", and we are "IN Christ".
There is no sin found "in Christ".

So, when you are found in the future, being led by the devil, trying to find another verse in the NT that proves to you that you can lose your salvation, and the Devil always has his deceived doing this........ its their trademark....
Then understand something about "God in You"....that you dont understand yet.
Its this...
If a born again person, could go to Hell and then the Lake of fire, for all eternity, then God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, will be in there also, as they do not leave you, and you can never be out of Christ., or un-born again.
So, do you think that God and Christ and the Holy Spirit, will be going to Hell and then the Lake of fire?
You most certainly do, if you believe that a born again believer can "lose their salvation" and go to hell and then the lake of fire.
Understand?
Think on that.
See....This is why there is no verse in the NT that says that you can be un-born gain, and there is no verse in the NT that says that Christ will LEAVE the Born again, if you are a bad boy, or a fornicating Corinthian.
When Jesus says you HAVE eternal life, if you believe in Him, its because Jesus, who Himself IS Eternal life, is IN THE BORN AGAIN.
Thats why they have it....Its because CHRIST IN YOU.....Is Your Eternal Life, if you are born again.
And where is He going?..........Is where you will end up, if you are born again, and that is NOT in Hell or in the Lake of FIRE.
This is why Jesus tells the born again that "you will NEVER PERISH"......including that fornicating Corinthian, and including you, READER, if you are born again.

So, that is how you answer your question, if, a heretics asks you.....ferris.

 

[Behold]

And so purposely living in sin, willingly and unrestrained is the faith that God accepts? .

Readers ....

Let me give you a quick lesson on : THE Faith that God accepts.

Let say you are in my class.
and you ask.....".so, whose faith does God accept.""""

Well, its more then just yours,= in this context......

= "Jesus. the AUTHOR and FINISHER of your faith".....

Now.....

Do you see......'"""FINISHER""""?

Finisher of what, Reader?

=YOUR FAITH.

"'"""so what are you showing me,?""

IM showing you that :

Philippians 1:6, says that """"God who started salvation is all the born again, will HIMSELF be faithful to complete it".""""

"complete what, ?/?????

= Your SALVATiON..

"but i thought I was to complete it"....>"thats what the heretic who taught me led me to believe"..

I know.

See, a deceived heretic told you that "working out your salvation" means to complete it, and so, you were lied to, again.
Listen, only God can complete the GIFT He gives....>"the gift of Righteousness".."the GIFT of Salvation".

Now..... Salvation is not your faith.... Salvation is Jesus's Blood, and THAT is GOD's Blood, and THAT is why it starts your salvation and completes it, for you. Philippians 1:6

"but what about my faith"...

well, What about it?

"dont i have to hang onto my faith, and grit my teeth, and endure to the end, so that my Faith can keep me saved as long as its not DEAD"?

No

"Really?

Yes.

See, God is the Savior......not your faith.
Its "GRACE THROUGH Faith".....>Not Faith as GRACE.

For example, if you were at the Pearly Gates, and Jude was there, and He said....>"what are you trusting in to get you past me, and into Heaven".

And you said...>"my Faith"......

Jude would say...."Depart fool".

But if you said....>"im only trusting in CHRIST to save me and keep me saved"...... Then Jude says......."that's right, you are saved and kept saved by Christ, who is the "author and finisher of your faith".........and not you. Hebrews 12:2

"enter into the Joy of the Lord".

 

[marks]

If a born again person, could go to Hell and then the Lake of fire, for all eternity, then God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, will be in there also, as they do not leave you, and you can never be out of Christ., or un-born again.

For He has promised, I will never leave you nor forsake you.

One of the best verses in the Bible!

 

[Behold]

God does not accept one's lifestyle as payment for salvation. What he does do is accepts it as the evidence of genuine faith. This is the truth that escapes you.

Listen, God never accepts your lifestyle, to accept you.
Never.
This is why James says to maintain a living and not a DEAD Faith,.....before OTHER PEOPLE.
Or as he teaches..>"i will show YOU my Faith".. As DEEDS, as "fruit".
He is not showing GOD....... He is showing other PEOPLE>.
Think on that...

God only Accepts Christ's Righteousness in place of your life, and your lifestyle.
God had to make the born again RIGHTEOUS, to accept them, and its His Righteous that He accepts, that is His Gift to us.
So, there is no...."God accepts me, because i have been really good for a long time".
How good is your goodness, Ferris... as compared to Jesus, or God?
So, GET OVER your self righteous SELF.
GET REAL before your Maker and get off the CROSS, as you are not worthy to be on it.

Listen.... God only accepts you, because Christ was perfect, and this perfection, this RIGHTEOUSNESS, has become you as "made Righteous" born again.
That is what God accepts, and that's WHY God accepts you and keeps you....and that is the ONLY Reason.

="the finished work of Jesus on the Cross" is why God took you, and will keep you,........so... all your faithfulness and good deeds, NEED NOT APPLY THERE.

Also....

Listen, The devil is real.
He is just as real as Jesus.
He has had a very long time to read the bible, and to come to understand what Christians are all about.
He utterly understands that Christians, are easy to deceive, and he knows ALL the verses that will do it and how to use them to blind you with the Law.

One of them is ...>"you will know them by their Fruit"...... by their speech, behavior, lifestyle..

So, that is why Paul wrote to you, that the Devil's ministers will come as angels OF LIGHT...= deceiving "minsters of righteousness""...and the devil himself is a light bearer.

What is Light. ?????
Its a device that takes away darkness and creates heat.. But Light can also be dark. And Spiritual Light is always DARK when it has no TRUTH, or when it bend or modifies the Truth.

The born again who are owned by the devil, not possessed, but owned.....controlled..... will always sound like a "christian".
They build Churches. They start forums. They have TV ministries. THEY PRETEND and PRETEND and PRETEND, and their light is DARKNESS.
DARKNESS is the Devil's LIGHT, reader.
Jesus said....."be careful that the light in you, is not DARKNESS""""
They have the speech down pat....perfected........i call it "christianeze"...
The devil knows you need to hear this, to authenticate them.....and that is why the Devil and his people, FAKE FRUIT.

Reader, Spiritual fruit can be faked..... So, you can't ONLY try to discern if a teacher, pope, preacher, bishop, is "of God" by how they sound, or smell, or if their Suit is BLUE and shining.

 

[marks]

And so purposely living in sin, willingly and unrestrained is the faith that God accepts?

That seems non sequitor to me.

That if we are relying solely on our faith for our salvation, that somehow this means we are in unrestrained sin? For one thing, that doesn't say much for the power of the Holy Spirit living in us. Nor does it say much for what God does in recreating us, I don't think.

By faith we stand in grace, not by effort.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

For He has promised, I will never leave you nor forsake you.

One of the best verses in the Bible!

ITs impossible for the Living Christ to stop existing as your Righteousness, once you are born again "IN Christ".
And that is what Salvation, actually is......Its Jesus becoming our righteousness, as our "new creation In Christ".
He becomes our righteousness, which is to be "made righteous", and we become "in Christ", as our Spiritual State.
We, the born again, EXIST IN GOD.......In GOD's Living Eternal Spirit........"ONE, with God and Christ".
WE are cut away from our flesh, Spiritually.... we are no more a part of the body of death, or the adamic nature... even if the body has its desires and lusts and "sin consciousness".
We are NOT THAT....... WE are the "new creation"........And God only sees us AS a "new Creation", Born again.

 

[marks]

ITs impossible for the Living Christ to stop existing as your Righteousness, once you are born again "IN Christ".
And that is what Salvation, actually is......Its Jesus becoming our righteousness, as our "new creation In Christ".
He becomes our righteousness, which is to be "made righteous", and we become "in Christ", as our Spiritual State.
We, the born again, EXIST IN GOD.......In GOD's Living Eternal Spirit........"ONE, with God and Christ".
WE are cut away from our flesh, Spiritually.... we are no more a part of the body of death, or the adamic nature... even if the body has its desires and lusts and "sin consciousness".
We are NOT THAT....... WE are the "new creation"........And God only sees us AS a "new Creation", Born again.

Amen!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That if we are relying solely on our faith for our salvation, that somehow this means we are in unrestrained sin? For one thing, that doesn't say much for the power of the Holy Spirit living in us. Nor does it say much for what God does in recreating us, I don't think.

Yep. I agree completely. That's why I so firmly resist Behold's heretical, unBiblical gospel of license.

 

[Pearl]

Yep. I agree completely. That's why I so firmly resist Behold's heretical, unBiblical gospel of license.

Behold is right. What he says is the truth and not heresy. It is what all true Christians should believe.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Behold is right. What he says is the truth and not heresy. It is what all true Christians should believe.

The part that he has wrong is he teaches that 'Christians' who do not have the mind set on the Spirit and live in willful, blatant, flagrant, unrepentant sin are saved nonetheless. That's not what the Bible says. And we know from the example of the sinner at Corinth (1 Corinthians 5) that the unrepentant 'Christian' must repent "so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord." It doesn't matter if they were ever really saved to begin with, or lost their salvation. The simple Biblical fact that matters is that person purposely living in sin must stop doing that "so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord." That's what the Bible plainly says. But since he is only capable of seeing that as a works gospel (which it is not) he rejects what Paul so plainly says.

 

[marks]

Yep. I agree completely. That's why I so firmly resist Behold's heretical, unBiblical gospel of license.

That's not what he teaches. Aside from style, he and I are mostly peas in a pod.

Our sins are gone!

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I appreciate your clarification, though I think I understand what you are saying. But I strongly disagree.

I'm saying that care or concern for others is not the answer to sin. And you can provide care for others in very sinful ways, that maybe many people don't even think of as sinful. But if in your heart you know you like to accolades, or you feel that this makes up for yesterday, or whatever it may be, these things are not what God is leading us to.

Again I'll say that a lack of love for others is itself sin. And therefore, your answer is essentially to say, we can stop sinning (all sorts) when we stop sinning (unloving).

I believe the Bible teaches that we stop sinning by trusting Jesus. And as we are trusting Jesus, love is the fruit of the Spirit.

Much love!

I think you'll see from these verses that the sinning is in the lack of doing:

James 2:16
16If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?

1 John 3:17-18
17If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? 18Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

As we can see from the 1 John 3:17-18 verses the doing of love comes from having the love of God in you.

But being obedient to God in how you act comes from these things....

1) You have a deep appreciation for the forgiveness you have received and don't want to purposely walk in those sins that God has so graciously forgiven and which got you into trouble in the first place. You don't want to forfeit the forgiveness you have received by purposely trampling on the sacrifice that afforded you that forgiveness.

2) God's love for others in you by the Holy Spirit keeps you from wanting to harm them, and even help them instead.

3) Accepting by faith that you, as a Christian, are in fact delivered from and have power over sin.

4) Lastly, and not quite as spiritual as the other reasons, lol, God's punishment for getting out of line motivates you to resist sin.

For me, it seems the depth and the power of the temptation associated with the sin is what determines which one of the four listed above is most effective or useful at the time to resist sin and be obedient to God. #2 is what the Bible says is the mark of the mature believer. It is the source of the most genuine and noble reason for not sinning. It's the place where God is seeking to take everyone who belongs to him.

 

[Behold]

Amen!

Yep. I agree completely. That's why I so firmly resist Behold's heretical, unBiblical gospel of license.

Are you trying to sound patronizing again?
Why not just learn, and stop resisting what you can't prevent from being True.


And regarding what you You misunderstood that he said...
He is telling you that if you have faith in faith, that this has replaced faith in Christ.
And this misunderstanding that you have, that you've been taught, is the idea that "if you hold onto your faith, then God will hold unto you".
And this comes from heretics who live and die in James's epistles, and have no affiliation with Paul's epistles, other then 'Hebrews."
And that "holding unto my faith to stay saved" heresy denies the reality that you are not kept saved by faith....but rather you are kept saved by GOD.

The proof that a person is going to go to heaven, is not found in theology.......its only found by being born again.
We the born again, do not keep our faith alive, to try to stay born again, and that is the heresy, of the "holding onto my faith, is why i stay saved", heretics.

 

[marks]

The part that he has wrong is he teaches that 'Christians' who do not have the mind set on the Spirit and live in willful, blatant, flagrant, unrepentant sin are saved nonetheless. That's not what the Bible says.

We should talk about what this means, "the mind set on the Spirit".

You are misunderstanding his teaching. Whether you agree or not, that's not what he is saying. Christians have the mind set on the Spirit. Let's look at the passage:

Romans 8:5-11 KJV
5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Is this the passage you have in mind?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Reader, Spiritual fruit can be faked..... So, you can't ONLY try to discern if a teacher, pope, preacher, bishop, is "of God" by how they sound, or smell, or if their Suit is BLUE and shining.

This is true. Someone with a pleasant temperment, and a good digestion, can think, others can think, they are spiritual because they don't have interpersonal problems, and don't have any 'serious' vices. We MUST stick to Biblical definitions!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Are you trying to sound patronizing again?
Why not just learn, and stop resisting what you can't prevent from being True.


And regarding what you You misunderstood that he said...
He is telling you that if you have faith in faith, that this has replaced faith in Christ.
And this misunderstanding that you have, that you've been taught, is the idea that "if you hold onto your faith, then God will hold unto you".
And this comes from heretics who live and die in James's epistles, and have no affiliation with Paul's epistles, other then 'Hebrews."
And that "holding unto my faith to stay saved" heresy denies the reality that you are not kept saved by faith....but rather you are kept saved by GOD.

The proof that a person is going to go to heaven, is not found in theology.......its only found by being born again.
We the born again, do not keep our faith alive, to try to stay born again, and that is the heresy, of the "holding onto my faith, is why i stay saved", heretics.

@Ferris Bueller

I'm saying that salvation is purely through faith, and that the right kind of living is purely through faith. His contention, as I see it, is that our lives must show proof of our rebirth or we are not reborn. This is a simple sounding assertion, easily put in the context of Scripture, BUT we have nothing to prove to God, since God knows those who are His, therefore, rebirth is one thing, and all the works that follow are something else entirely, and rebirth has no dependance on works.

Unless one were to argue that works or lack thereof can cause the born again to become spiritually dead again, something I believe is resoundingly refuted in the Bible.

And so if you are reborn, His Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God. Regardless of your works. Or lack thereof. And in reality, what we're talking about when we say "our works" is our opinion of our perception of ourself. Not that it's entirely without merit, but I don't count on my own opinions of myself. God alone is fit to be the judge. Only His opinion matters.

Much love!

 

[marks]

1) You have a deep appreciation for the forgiveness you have received and don't want to purposely walk in those sins that God has so graciously forgiven and which got you into trouble in the first place. You don't want to forfeit the forgiveness you have received by purposely trampling on the sacrifice that afforded you that forgiveness.

So then you have a very positive emotional response to the hope of your faith, forgiveness, and this emotional response provides the motivation for you to change your behavior away from those things you used to do, those things which God has been so gracious to forgive. And the stick to this carrot is that if you continue, that forgiveness you've received may go away.

Is that about right?

I believe that when we are reborn, we are a new person who didn't exist before, and being born from God, we are like Him, instead of Adam. So now we are new people, who are righteous and holy, and are learning to take control over our bodies, which are not righteous and holy, quite the opposite in fact.

We don't need to find any emotional motivation to do what God desires. Your feelings can run this way and that way. I've learned that emotions can be so intricately tied to physiological responses - fear is a great example - they are not to be entirely trusted. I may feel something that's not compatible with a Christian life, but still make the choice according to my faith, what I believe to be true, regardless of my current emotional state.

And I am convinced from Scripture that those who are born again will never die. Colossians 3 is a great place!

Colossians 3:1-4
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

This is prophecy, it will happen.

Those who are risen with Christ have died, and are hid with Christ in God. And when Christ appears, you, who have died with Him, who are risen with Him (now), will appear with Him in glory.

Scripture CANNOT be broken.

The born again will never die, but will appear with Jesus, glorified with Him.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So then you have a very positive emotional response to the hope of your faith, forgiveness, and this emotional response provides the motivation for you to change your behavior away from those things you used to do, those things which God has been so gracious to forgive. And the stick to this carrot is that if you continue, that forgiveness you've received may go away.

Is that about right?

I believe that when we are reborn, we are a new person who didn't exist before, and being born from God, we are like Him, instead of Adam. So now we are new people, who are righteous and holy, and are learning to take control over our bodies, which are not righteous and holy, quite the opposite in fact.

We don't need to find any emotional motivation to do what God desires. Your feelings can run this way and that way. I've learned that emotions can be so intricately tied to physiological responses - fear is a great example - they are not to be entirely trusted. I may feel something that's not compatible with a Christian life, but still make the choice according to my faith, what I believe to be true, regardless of my current emotional state.

And I am convinced from Scripture that those who are born again will never die. Colossians 3 is a great place!

Colossians 3:1-4
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

This is prophecy, it will happen.

Those who are risen with Christ have died, and are hid with Christ in God. And when Christ appears, you, who have died with Him, who are risen with Him (now), will appear with Him in glory.

Scripture CANNOT be broken.

The born again will never die, but will appear with Jesus, glorified with Him.

Much love!

Why does everyone insist on making this about once saved always saved? If a 'Christian' is living in sin and doesn't have the mind set on the Spirit what difference does it make how he got there? What difference does it make if he used to be saved and now isn't or that he was never saved to begin with? It doesn't make any difference, he's still condemned either way. The important point here is that he is condemned. Not how he got there. The once saved always saved argument doesn't change that fact. We need to address what actually matters: The person living in willful, purposeful, unrepentant sin is not saved. It doesn't matter if he was ever saved or not. The point is, he is not saved now and if he doesn't repent won't be saved when Jesus comes back. The famous once saved always saved argument has led the church away from this important truth and into meaningless theologies that don't change the outcome of the 'Christian' who is purposely not living for Christ because he doesn't want to.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The born again will never die, but will appear with Jesus, glorified with Him.

The born again won't live in sin. He won't because he has the Spirit and by virtue of that Spirit has the mind set on the Spirit and so won't live in sin. People who are not born again are the ones without the Spirit living in willful, purposeful sin with the mind set on the flesh (Romans 8:5-9).

Does this mean a person will always be born again and so be in a state where he does not willfully and purposely sin? We all have our opinions about that. But what does it matter if you're living in willful, unrepentant sin? Nothing, of course. You're in a state of unbelief and a rejection of the blood of Christ. You're not saved. The argument is meaningless for that person. He's living that way because he does not believe and is lost. Once saved always saved only has relevance to saved believers living for Christ, not people living in the mind set on the flesh who don't have the Spirit.