"In Christ" = Never ends.

[Ferris Bueller]

I can trust Jesus for my weekly budget, or I can choose to be afraid, not trusting. But is this really the same thing as trusting Him for eternal life, through His death and resurrection? And being born a spirit child of God?

No, it's not the same. But it isn't until your faith in and appreciation for the forgiveness you have received motivates your trust in God for daily provision that you'll live for him successfully in daily living.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I look at the teachings of the renewing of the mind, and I've come to see this as that our minds will often continue in the way of the flesh, and they need to be retrained according to Christ's mind.

That retraining of the mind is learning about God's love and how he acts. When that love fills your soul you will not sin because you are cognizant of other people's feelings.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I'm seeing two commandmants we are given by Jesus, to believe in Him, and to love each other. Are we on the same page?

Much love!

We are on the same page. Faith in Christ's Sacrifice and walking by the Spirit is how we fulfill our responsibility to serve God in this New Covenant.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The simple answer is the word of God. There are long passages of scripture that talk about what obedience to God looks like and what disobedience to God looks like.

Some people think they are!

You mean some people think they are obedient to God but really aren't? Probably so, but the Bible helps us discern that matter rather easily. It's just that the church doesn't read those parts of the Bible. They're more interested in theologies and building proper doctrinal houses. And they think doing that is what it means to have faith in God. Not knowing that living for God according to the fruit of the Spirit is what it means to have faith in God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

People can be pretty messed up in a lot of ways, damaged by DNA, damaged by abuse, damaged by bad choices with terrible consequences, like drug addictions. These things can profoundly affect the state of the mind, including the sorts of thoughts that parade through to the emotions we feel, cravings and drives, all sorts of things.

I agree, but having the love of God for others in you is great enough to overcome the damage done to us by sin.

Lack of appreciation for God IS sin. Unloving to others likewise IS sin. You are saying that we can stop struggling with sin when we stop sinning. I'm saying that when we look to Jesus and not ourselves, we find victory.

No, I'm saying you can stop sinning when you have genuine care and concern and thoughtfulness for others (aka love) in you. It's a training process. You learn about how God loves compared to how sinful flesh loves and that knowledge solicits an overwhelming presence of his Spirit from which we then love as God loves. This is the narrow road that few find that Jesus talked about. Most are stuck in the pursuit of their accurate theologies about God thinking that's what it means to believe in God and be pleasing to him and they never get to what really matters in Christianity.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What you are describing is a person is who trying not to live in willful sin, to try to keep themselves saved.
You are describing this......>"as long as i dont willfully sin, i keep myself saved".

No, what I'm saying is as long as I continue in a genuine faith in Christ's sacrifice I won't willfully sin. Genuine faith changes a person who purposely pursues sin, because they love and adore sin, to one who avoids sin because they hate it but who unwillingly falls into it because of the deceits of satan and the flesh.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So, that is the Gospel of works, and it's absolutely not related to the Grace of God, that has forgiven all sin, and imparted the righteousness of God unto and into a person's "new creation in Christ" as = " The Gift of Righteousness"
So, the Devil's Gospel is the one you are preaching.

"im keeping myself saved, by not willfully sinning". And that that Gospel, is Galatians 1:8

I understand that you are only capable of seeing purposely being obedient to God as you working to save yourself. I get it. Until you expand your understanding to see that seeking to be obedient to God is the expression of your faith in and appreciation for Christ's sacrifice you won't see it any other way and you will continue to endorse the heresy that you can purposely sin and still be saved. Completely unaware that purposely sinning shows you do not have any appreciation or love for, or trust in, Christ's sacrifice. You just think you do. If you really did you'd have a mind set on running from sin, not purposely living in it.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Jesus will never tell anyone who is born again to "depart"
And why?
Let me show you.

"depart from ME.........as i never KNEW YOU"..

So, a heretic will teach that this is speaking to a born again Christian.
But this can't be true, because, ... A Christian has become a "Son", and God and Christ and the Holy Spirit live inside ALL the born again.
"temple of the Holy Spirit".
We the born again, are God's BODY...."the BODY of Christ".
God is IN US.
Understand?
So, it would be impossible, for Christ, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, to live inside a born again "new Creation" "In Christ", and them not know us.
Now a heretic can't understand this.....but i assure you that if you are "ONE" with God and Christ, (born again)...= both Father God and Jesus The Christ= know you.
So, your verse, that says..>"depart," because Jesus never KNEW YOU, can't be referring to the born again, as its impossible to be "ONE" with God and 'IN Christ" and Jesus not be aware of it, .... He can't possibly be IN YOU, "Christ IN YOU, the hope of Glory" and it be a mystery to Him.
Understand?
So, whatever heretic's commentary you are lost inside of, or whatever heretic's denomination you are trusting...has deceived you, and you need to get away from it, asap.

The mistake you make is thinking all this means you can purposely live in sin without struggle or conscience and you'll still be considered a believer in God and saved when Jesus comes back. You deny the scripture that tells us the person who is unchanged in their love for and willful pursuit of sin is not born again and is a child of the devil, not God. If they were born again they would have the mind set on the Spirit and would not be willfully pursuing sin without struggle but would be purposely trying to avoid it.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Salvation does not save your body, as your body is not the real you, neither before or after God redeems you.
But you, as the "new creation" in Christ, once born again, on earth, have "passed from death to life", here....and there is no judgement for your "spirit" subsequent to your death.

Just explain to us why the spirit of the sinner at Corinth will be damned when Christ returns if he does not get turned over to satan for the crucifying of his sin in his flesh. You say he can sin all he wants and he will still be saved when Christ returns. Paul says he has to stop doing that so he can be saved when Christ returns. I know you can't see that's what Paul is saying because you think that would be a works gospel. It's not a works gospel. You just don't know why that's not a works gospel.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

if you deal with religious people, is that they always confuse Faith that God accepts, with their idea of self effort as what God accepts.

And so purposely living in sin, willingly and unrestrained is the faith that God accepts? That's not what Paul says.....

Galatians 5:6
the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

He said the faith that counts is the faith that obeys God, summarized in love for others. You say the faith that counts is the faith that lives in willful, deliberate sin.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

He accepts your Heart Belief, your Trust in Christ, that is an internal trust, to then save you.
Its "Grace through Faith", not Grace through trying to be good.

If you really had a heart belief and trust in Christ you would have the mind set on the Spirit and would not be deliberately and purposefully, without care or restraint, living in sin. This is the knowledge that escapes you. You think purposely not living in sin can only be you working to save yourself. You do not know that purposely seeking to not live in sin is the work of the Spirit in the saved person, and that purposely seeking to live in sin is the work of the flesh in the unsaved, Christ rejecting person. It has nothing to do with trying to earn one's salvation through doing right. But I get it. You are only capable of seeing it that way.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

God never accepts a person's lifestyle, as "all have sinned and fallen short".

Correct, God does not accept one's lifestyle as payment for salvation. What he does do is accepts it as the evidence of genuine faith. This is the truth that escapes you.

Ultimately, no evidence of salvation (good works) means a person does not have salvation. You have invented this imaginary saving faith in God that leaves a person in the mind set on the things of the flesh, not knowing that genuine saving faith in God gives a person the mind set on the things of the Spirit. That's why your lifestyle is the metric by which the presence of saving faith in God is measured. That is the truth that escapes you. Unsaved people have their minds set on the flesh, not saved people. The person with their mind set on the things of the flesh does not have the Spirit of God. If they did they'd have a mind set on the things of the Spirit. But you say the person who has their mind set on the flesh is saved just as long as they believed at some time. What you don't know is if they really believed they wouldn't have their mind set on the flesh. You do not have this knowledge and are teaching a heretical gospel of license.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No works or lifestyle or holding unto your faith or enduring to the end, need apply to the Throne of God, as God will reject it, always.

He'll reject lifestyle as payment for salvation. But he'll receive it as proof of your faith in and love for Jesus (Matthew 25:31-46). This is the truth that escapes you because you can only see works as you trying to earn salvation and saving yourself.

 

[marks]

No, I'm saying you can stop sinning when you have genuine care and concern and thoughtfulness for others (aka love) in you.

I appreciate your clarification, though I think I understand what you are saying. But I strongly disagree.

I'm saying that care or concern for others is not the answer to sin. And you can provide care for others in very sinful ways, that maybe many people don't even think of as sinful. But if in your heart you know you like to accolades, or you feel that this makes up for yesterday, or whatever it may be, these things are not what God is leading us to.

Again I'll say that a lack of love for others is itself sin. And therefore, your answer is essentially to say, we can stop sinning (all sorts) when we stop sinning (unloving).

I believe the Bible teaches that we stop sinning by trusting Jesus. And as we are trusting Jesus, love is the fruit of the Spirit.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But he'll receive it as proof of your faith in and love for Jesus (Matthew 25:31-46). This is the truth that escapes you because you can only see works as you trying to earn salvation and saving yourself.

Perhaps a little presumptive to say this escapes me.

Let me ask you . . . why would God need proof of who His children are? Doesn't He know? God alone knows my heart, not even I do. So I'm to offer Him proof about myself? I have ZERO interest in thinking that I'm going to prove myself to God, I feel foolish even telling Him about myself!

Many people talk in terms of that your salvation requires works from you. OK. If we have faith, we will be different. If we are reborn, we will be different. Just the same . . . I'm not sure I really understand what you are getting at, other than that we should think that we will be condemned if we lack sufficient works.

We should instead be looking to our faith in Christ Jesus.

Much love!

 

[marks]

We are on the same page. Faith in Christ's Sacrifice and walking by the Spirit is how we fulfill our responsibility to serve God in this New Covenant.

Our responsibility to serve God . . .

Yes, we are responsible to serve God. Should we do that from a sense of obligation? Or from the desire to do those same things He wants?

Much love!

 

[marks]

and appreciation for the forgiveness you have received

Faith +

?

What does it mean to you to be a new creation?

Much love!

 

[Behold]

I'm not making an assertion one way or the other for once saved always saved. But since you are, what you have to do is explain why the sinning saint at Corinth HAD to be turned over to satan to be saved when Jesus comes back if it's true that you have faith one time and are always saved through that faith even if you reject Christ later and go back to willfully sinning in unbelief.

Again, you are saying that this fornicator "had to come back" to be saved.
But he didnt...And the NT does not teach that he "had to come back" to anything.
You are saying that, not the NT.
This young man had to repent, had to stop his fornication, before Paul would allow him back in the GROUP.
That is not the same as "he had to stop fornicating to get his salvation back"......as in fact, he never lost his salvation, he only lost his fellowship with the Corinth Church.

Want me to prove it to you?
Why have you not been turned over to "Satan" for destruction of your flesh, as you have certainly sinned after you were saved..
And you didnt confess them all, because you dont remember them all....
So, you need to stop teaching false theology, and instead, learn some good theology....learn some Truth.

 

[Behold]

Jesus says, "Come, follow me."

Yes..
""""Carry your cross, present your body a living sacrifice, preach the world, be instant, in season and out,......go into all the world""

But, what a Christian has to do that DRIVES all that, that GOVERNS all that, that empowers all that.....is found here.

Hebrews 13:9

And until a believer masters this verse as a lifestyle = then their life will master them as a sinning and confessing and repenting, failed disciple of Christ.

 

[Behold]

No, what I'm saying is as long as I continue in a genuine faith in Christ's sacrifice I won't willfully sin. .

It would not be honest to say that your sinning was all an accident since you were born again.
Even yesterdays....
It would also not be accurate to say that your sin, is actually "sin", anymore.
The deeds you committed as a sinner, are not found in the same Light, after you are born again.
So, to have the faith in Christ that you need, is to come to THAT understanding, and many other things..

Christians are not sinners. The born again are a "new Creation"....so, "old things have passed away, and all things are become new".
Including Romans 4:8.

Think of it like this..
A person, who is a new Christian, still sees themselves as a sinner, sinning.
A carnal self righteous preacher or pope, or similar,, is still preaching the same devil's message of...>"you will sin, you have to repent, and then God is happy with you again".
However, God does not teach that as His New Testament, or as the Grace of God.
So, right there, is the first step into the Light, that you have to come to, so that you begin to think of yourself according to God's perspective.
Right Believing is to SEE as God Sees it., and to live THERE.
"Renewing your mind", is to bring your mind into right alignment with God's perspective of YOU.
And This is missing from your Preachers's teaching. But its not missing from mine.

Listen, i wrote many Threads explaining how to get away from the way you see salvation, so that you can begin to see it from God's perspective.
It would take some digging, but, i taught a lot about this, for the first 2 months i was here, this yr.
I still include touches/traces of it, in almost all my responses, but, the Threads are detailed.