"In Christ" = Never ends.

[marks]

2) God's love for others in you by the Holy Spirit keeps you from wanting to harm them, and even help them instead.

This I think is more the reality.

We are remade to be like God is. God is love, so we love. Being people who love, that's how we live.

What @Behold teaches, and what I teach, is that this is an accomplished reality in those who are born again. But if this isn't how you think about yourself, and your life, that will be an impediment towards your living out this new reality.

When we realize the completeness and the permanance and the graciousness of our justification - the forgiveness of sins, and the separation from our flesh into a new life - when we realize these things, we walk accordingly, because it's who we are.

Much love!

 

[marks]

3) Accepting by faith that you, as a Christian, are in fact delivered from and have power over sin.

Amen!!

This is our justification. We are forever from from both the guilt of sin, and it's power over us.

Much love!

 

[marks]

4) Lastly, and not quite as spiritual as the other reasons, lol, God's punishment for getting out of line motivates you to resist sin.

What would that punishment be? Do you mean the discipling that God does through afflictions? Or do you mean destruction away from the presence of the LORD? Something else?

Much love!

 

[Behold]

This I think is more the reality.

We are remade to be like God is. God is love, so we love. Being people who love, that's how we live.

What @Behold teaches, and what I teach, is that this is an accomplished reality in those who are born again. But if this isn't how you think about yourself, and your life, that will be an impediment towards your living out this new reality.

When we realize the completeness and the permanance and the graciousness of our justification - the forgiveness of sins, and the separation from our flesh into a new life - when we realize these things, we walk accordingly, because it's who we are.

Much love!

Very well stated, Marks..

What is to be like Christ, if not to become the Love of God.

Jesus is the Heart of God and He is in us.

Getting out of the way, out of the mind of the flesh so that we are always walking in the Spirit.....that is the FRUIT of Jesus existing as our reality.

Jesus is the spiritual vine, and we are the spiritual fruit of the vine, and the Vine is Growing out of God's Grace.

Paul explains it as, "its not I who live", yet he was very much alive..

 

[marks]

The person living in willful, purposeful, unrepentant sin is not saved.

Rather, the person who has not trusted in Jesus and is not born again is not saved.

Now . . . what sins aren't willful?

Much love!

 

[marks]

The born again won't live in sin.

And so you do not sin? I submit that this is only a matter of degree.

?

I agree, if you are not changed, you are not born again, because being born again is being changed.

But if you are thinking that you have to make some showing of yourself or you won't remain 'saved' then this is the mindset of the flesh, that is, to live according to the knowledge of good and evil instead of to live according to the life in Christ.

We as Christians have a new mind, and need to be renewed into that mind.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But what does it matter if you're living in willful, unrepentant sin?

So who actually are you addressing with this? Just the academic point among believers that if you aren't changed, than you aren't changed?

Much love!

 

[marks]

not people living in the mind set on the flesh who don't have the Spirit.

I think that nothing but the gospel has relevance to those without the Holy Spirit.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Let me ask you . . . why would God need proof of who His children are? Doesn't He know?

Yes, he does know who his children are and does not need proof. But he's made it clear that when he comes back and establishes his kingdom he will pass judgement on us as to whether or not we love him and are saved according to what we have done—Matthew 25:31-46. I don't know why he chose to do it that way because we both know he doesn't need to go by our works to pass judgment. But that's just how he said he's going to do it. I suspect it's for creation's benefit so no one can accuse the Lord of injustice. He'll just point all who accuse him of injustice or question his judgments to the works of the person being acquitted or condemned, their lives being the evidence that supports his righteous judgment.

I suspect a lot of people are going to be standing there at the judgment with their dead faith thinking they're going to go into the kingdom when in reality their dead faith is the evidence that God will use against them to condemn them as unbelievers and send them to the lake of fire. Modern Christian teaching is a big reason it's going to be that way. It's leading multitudes away from the truth about the coming judgment. I mean, they weren't ever going to believe anyway, but this modern heretical teaching about grace is one of the vehicles through which unbelievers will be deceived and led to destruction.

God alone knows my heart, not even I do. So I'm to offer Him proof about myself? I have ZERO interest in thinking that I'm going to prove myself to God, I feel foolish even telling Him about myself!

Read the passage—Matthew 25:31-46. You're not going to be making your case. Jesus is going to look at the testimony of the life you lived here on earth. People who do not have works of righteousness (the evidence of their love for Jesus in salvation) will go to the lake of fire, while those who do have the evidence of their love for Jesus in salvation will go into the eternal kingdom.

Many people talk in terms of that your salvation requires works from you. OK. If we have faith, we will be different. If we are reborn, we will be different.

And that's what I'm saying. Righteous works are required and expected in the life of the saved person in the same way that intelligent works are required and expected in the life of the genius. If the genius does stupid things then we know by his behavior that he's not the genius he claims to be. Same with the person who claims to have the righteousness of God. His behavior will ultimately reveal if he really has the righteousness of God or not.

Just the same . . . I'm not sure I really understand what you are getting at, other than that we should think that we will be condemned if we lack sufficient works.

Yes, you will be condemned for not having a life of righteous works commensurate to one who has the righteousness of God in them by the Holy Spirit. That lack of righteous work shows you to not have the righteousness of God by faith that you think, or claim, to have. Your works testify as to whether or not you have the righteousness of God through faith or not. That's how Jesus can judge us by our works when he returns.

We should instead be looking to our faith in Christ Jesus.

Uh, oh! Be careful. I know what you mean, but Behold is going to chastise you for having faith in faith instead of faith in God, lol.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Our responsibility to serve God . . .

Yes, we are responsible to serve God. Should we do that from a sense of obligation? Or from the desire to do those same things He wants?

Much love!

Romans 8:11-12
he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of e his Spirit who lives in you.

12Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.

By virtue of having the Holy Spirit in us we are obligated to be the new creation that the Holy Spirit within us has made us. I mean it only makes sense. If we have been given a mind set on the things of the Spirit it's reasonable to expect that we live according to the mind set we have. Just as the unsaved person still in the realm of the flesh is obligated to walk according to that mind set, so the saved person in the realm of the Spirit is obligated to walk according to that mind set.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

and appreciation for the forgiveness you have received

Faith +

?

Faith + appreciation has nothing to do with something being added to faith in order to earn salvation. Faith all by itself apart from works makes a person righteous. Appreciation is simply a manifestation of the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works. Without that manifestation we can ultimately be judged as not having the faith that produces that appreciation. That's what trampling on the blood of Christ is all about. People who have faith in God don't treat the blood of the Christ with contempt in a life of willful, unrepentant sin. Instead, people who have faith in the blood of Christ appreciate it and show that appreciation by not purposely living in the sin that the blood of Christ washed away.

What does it mean to you to be a new creation?

Much love!

It means to have a new (different) inner man with the mind set on the things of the Spirit.

 

[Pearl]

@Ferris Bueller Are you a bit of a rebel like the character in the movie?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Again, you are saying that this fornicator "had to come back" to be saved.
But he didnt...And the NT does not teach that he "had to come back" to anything.
You are saying that, not the NT.

Dude, it says it right here....

"so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord."

I understand your reluctance to accept what Paul is saying because it goes against the official teaching of the Protestant churches. Their teachings have been tainted by the once saved always saved argument. You just have to shake off the leaven of the leadership of the church and read the scriptures for yourself and adjust your theology accordingly. In this end time, very, very few people are going to do that. The delusion is very strong. But it's according to God's plan (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12).

This young man had to repent, had to stop his fornication, before Paul would allow him back in the GROUP.
That is not the same as "he had to stop fornicating to get his salvation back"......as in fact, he never lost his salvation, he only lost his fellowship with the Corinth Church.

This has nothing to do with him losing his salvation or never having had it in the first place. We don't know that. The chapter doesn't tell us. What we do know is this member of the church has to be turned over to satan in the hope his sin in the flesh will be crucified "so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord." That is crystal clear. But few can see it because their minds have been steered away from seeing it by the meaningless once saved always saved argument. Settling the issue one way or the other about once saved always saved doesn't change the fact this guy in the church must repent in order to be saved when Jesus comes back.

Want me to prove it to you?
Why have you not been turned over to "Satan" for destruction of your flesh, as you have certainly sinned after you were saved..
And you didnt confess them all, because you dont remember them all....
So, you need to stop teaching false theology, and instead, learn some good theology....learn some Truth.

What a stupid argument. This man is living in willful, unrepentant sin. This isn't about the struggling saint who gets deceived into looking at porn again on his computer and then weeps bitterly in anguish of soul for having caved in again. Christ loves and embraces that soul. The soul he rejects is the arrogant slob who purposely and willfully and without repentance looks at porn, trampling on the blood of Christ in contempt and unbelief. And not unbelief as in 'I don't know if the gospel is really true', but unbelief as in 'I don't care about the forgiveness of Christ'.

And, by the way, how do you know I've never been turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh? And don't say because you're still alive. The sinner at Corinth was still alive despite his being turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh. So we know that does not mean you have to die physically. Obviously, since the man did repent after being turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh that means his fleshly sin had to die, not his physical body. What would physically dying accomplish toward being "saved on the day of the Lord" anyway, lol? Nothing, of course.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

@Ferris Bueller Are you a bit of a rebel like the character in the movie?

Yes, I am in full rebellion against an apostate and heretical church.

 

[Behold]

Dude, it says it right here....

"so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord."

Young dude, you can't just misapply one verse to try to prove the entire NT is wrong.
Understand?
You can't make the exception prove the rule.
So, get off that horse, as its running away from "rightly dividing".

Listen, i can take 200 verses and create whatever i want, but, that is not how you "spiritually discern" or "rightly divide".

So, what you have to do with your ONE verse, that is tattoo'd itself inside your head is this...

"compare scripture with scripture" to get the CONTEXT and the DOCTRINAL Application.

Here is the reality.....
If you are born again, your "spirit" is IN GOD.
So, put that over your verse, and see how it fits.
= It doesn't.

Put "all that believe in JESUS shall never perish".....over your verse, and see how it fits.
= It doesn't


Put, "all that believe in me HAVE Eternal life"... over your verse, and see how it fits.
= It doesn't.

and why?
figure it out.

 

[Pearl]

Yes, I am in full rebellion against an apostate and heretical church.

But you wouldn't steal a car.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Young dude, you can't just misapply one verse to try to prove the entire NT is wrong.
Understand?
You can't make the exception prove the rule.
So, get off that horse, as its running away from "rightly dividing".

When the 'exception' (as you perceive it) is plainly worded it SETS the rule. Preference is always given to the compelling, clear evidence. Clear evidence is not tossed out by less compelling and less clear evidence. If you ever find yourself in a court of law you will see this to be the rational prevailing thought regarding seemingly irreconcilable and contradictory evidence. You always take the clear and compelling evidence for what it is and examine the less clear and less compelling evidence in light of that clear evidence. You don't ignore or change the clear and unmoveable evidence to make other evidence mean what you want it to mean the way you and the church are doing. What you are saying above is exactly what I was talking about when I said this....

the Protestant churches. Their teachings have been tainted by the once saved always saved argument.

They toss out plainly worded and understood words in favor of pet doctrines. Just look at yourself how you're ignoring the plain words of the Bible because you're hell bend on defending a once saved always saved agenda (notice I said 'agenda', not 'teaching'—once saved always saved has it's place, just not the one you assign it). You are incapable of taking Paul at his word because it interferes with your misapplication of other scripture and so you discard the simple words of Paul that need no interpretation. You are actually the one who is guilty of the very thing you are accusing me of. You're making 1 Corinthians 5:5 not true by your misguided and un-rightly divided understanding of other scripture and so are failing to reconcile the plain words of 1 Corinthians 5:5 with the rest of scripture. Your whole teaching is a glaring example of not rightly dividing the word of God. Just look at how you can't bring yourself to let 1 Corinthians 5:5 mean what it plainly says.

And by the way, I'm not as young as you think I am. And even if I was I would not let you look down on me and shame me because of my age (1 Timothy 4:12).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But you wouldn't steal a car.

No, I wouldn't. I did that BEFORE I became a new creation in Christ (I actually did, lol). Ferris Bueller is a new creation in Christ now with a new mind set on not sinning against other people. I would have to abandon my trust in and appreciation for God's forgiveness to purposely steal a car now, and so I would be justly condemned at the resurrection as an unbeliever, my deeds being the evidence of that rejection of God's grace.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you are born again, your "spirit" is IN GOD.
So, put that over your verse, and see how it fits.
= It doesn't.

Put "all that believe in JESUS shall never perish".....over your verse, and see how it fits.
= It doesn't


Put, "all that believe in me HAVE Eternal life"... over your verse, and see how it fits.
= It doesn't.

and why?
figure it out.

It fits perfectly. Obviously, in light of other scripture, the sinner at Corinth is in unbelief. See, you can't bring yourself to acknowledge this simple truth (which doesn't contradict other scripture but supports it). You can't because you're hell bent on defending your heretical teachings, no matter what. Not even truth is going to get in your way! You have decided ahead of time what is the absolute truth and so you lock yourself out from having the capacity to learn from the Bible that you could be wrong about what you believe. It's a very common problem among Christians. ESPECIALLY, teachers and preachers. In their minds they can never be wrong or change what they believe or else they'd lose credibility as being called and appointed leaders in the church. What a sad, sad prison they live in. My heart genuinely aches for them. But I've given up on them. They have to sort that matter out between them and God. He's the only one who can change their thinking about their need to be infallible and never wrong and set them free from the chains of the horrible prison they live in.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So who actually are you addressing with this? Just the academic point among believers that if you aren't changed, than you aren't changed?

Much love!

I don't remember if I addressed this. But anyway, it's as simple as you put it—if you ain't changed, then you ain't changed! But we have a huge and popular teaching in the church that says otherwise. And so, many have placed their faith in this popular but heretical gospel that says unrepentant, unchanged, people who do not live righteously are saved to (just as long as they believed somewhere in the past). Which as you may know is in complete contradiction to James 2:14, but they do not let plain truth get in the way of what they want to believe. And neither does God, by the way. It's his will that disingenuous 'believers' be led astray by false teachings and be exposed for the Christ rejecters they are and so receive the just condemnation they deserve (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12).