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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I'm familiar with your theological movement. It teaches that if you purposely try to do good works that is you adding your own self righteousness to your salvation. It says works have to be automatic. That way they are of the Spirit and are not your self righteous works (as if that's what defines self righteous works). In your theology, if 'you' do them they are called 'your' works and they are rejected by God. When they happen automatically, they are considered to be done by the Spirit and so they are called 'God's' works and are accepted by God. Of course the net result of such a stupid theology is no one purposely does anything righteous for fear they would be guilty of trying to earn their own salvation. And worse not purposely doing righteous works, when no automatic works are happening is actually glorified in your theology because it represents you not trying to do evil works of self righteousness.
Ultimately, I know your theology is not for people genuinely seeking to love God and live for him and the truth. Truly born again people who love righteousness and want to love and serve God will see the falseness of this horrible gospel of license in the church today. People who came to Christ for the wrong reasons and really just want to have their cake and eat it too are the ones who will follow this deceitful movement. I feel compelled to help those who will see the deception of it break free of it's lies and be the true people of God.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
That's what I've been saying. Behold's theology actually says it's the sin of rejecting and trampling on the sacrifice of Christ to repent of your sins as a Christian. He can explain why he thinks that.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
You misunderstand. You don't become a Christian unless you repent.
Metanoia. The "after mind", that is, to repudiate the mind of the flesh, and receive Christ, and His mind. That is how you become a Christian. As God gives you faith, and you choose to believe, God gives you rebirth, and you are new, and with a new mind. This is what repentance - metanoia, not what the English word - means.
To think you are repenting again and again shows a misunderstanding of what that means. There is no repentance needed by the reborn, they already have the mind of Christ. If there is sin, all that is needed is that they stop the sin, and that is done by choosing to trust Jesus for whatever it is that is triggering the sin.
I've seen a lot of people who think that when they sin, it's almost like they have to get saved again. Do something to "make it right" with God. "Restore fellowship", things like that. Jesus did everything that was needed, not that only, but everything that Could Be done, on the cross, to remove our sins.
In His death and resurrection we "live unto God". Are you thinking this is an "on-again-off-again" state? We are alive unto God now, whatever else may be true in our lives, it doesn't change that passage.
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Your problem is you don't know WHY they are required for salvation. Even when it's explained to you. You're only capable of seeing the requirement for works in salvation as those works earning salvation and insist no other explanations exist. Even when I explain it you still can't see it. You are a literal example of the person with the blinders of a narrow minded, closed off, hobby horse teaching. You would not be able to speak back to me what my teaching says. You can't because, right or wrong, you are incapable of comprehending or grasping it. At least I know and can articulate back to you what you have been saying. Your response to this will not be that you acknowledge you don't understand what I'm saying. You will say you can't see what I'm saying because there is no other explanation outside of your own.
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
It's because you're missing, maybe even ignoring the fundamental flawed part of his theology. Everybody seems to do that. The deception is strong in this work of the enemy in the church at this time. And it all hinges on this misuse of the once saved always saved teaching.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
...are they then lost?
Romans 8.38-39: "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I already explained that he doesn't use our works so he can know if we love him and have faith in him. It's for OUR benefit that he has chosen to judge us according to our works. See, just saying, "yeah, I believe in God" is not sufficient to assure a person they are really saved and prepared for the coming judgment (but MANY do claim that is sufficient, particularly from Behold's movement). Genuine salvation is measured by the works that accompany genuine salvation.
Hebrews 6:9
...we are convinced of better things concerning you (not being burned up—see vs. 8), and things that accompany salvation...
See, the writer of Hebrews was convinced the Hebrews were saved and not going to be burned up because they have that which accompanies salvation. You don't know people are saved and not going to be burned up just because they say they are saved. Same with ourselves. We know we are saved by HOW WE ACT, not by what we claim with our mouths. The sinner at Corinth in 1 Corinthians 5 claimed to be a brother. But Paul went by how he lived to pass judgment on him that he had to be turned over to satan so he could be saved when Jesus comes back. And he tells us to do the same thing. Don't fellowship with the person who claims to be a brother/sister but who is immoral, or a swindler, or covetous, a reviler, or a drunkard. He says to turn that person over to the enemy so they can be saved. They are not your brother or sister. How they live reveals that.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Yeah, so? This means nothing if you're not living the repentant, believing life of a Christian. The once saved always saved argument doesn't make that person saved despite their unholy life of willful, unrepentant sin. But that is how the church misuses once saved always saved. They like it because they think it's their safety net if they should ever fail and not live for the Lord. They won't readily admit that, but it becomes obvious that is what many of them are taking comfort in when you talk to them.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
This a popular teaching in Behold's movement. But there is zero truth in it. Just read the bold parts in this part of Revelation. Then read the whole thing if you feel you must......
Revelation 2:13-17
...you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, not even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city—where Satan lives.
14Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality. 15Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
17Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
But at least you recognize the necessity for the believer to stop sinning. But as you can see the believer does in fact need to repent when they are caught up in wrong doing. It seems all it takes is a leader of a million dollar ministry to say something untrue and unbiblical, like 'believers don't have to repent' for it to become truth in the church (who's more at blame, the teacher, or the church that doesn't check out what he's saying?). As we can see the uneducated teacher that started this deception in the church did not know what he was talking about. He is a heretic. A false teacher.
Now, in the case of the church at Pergamum above. Should these sinning people wait around for Christ to work some automatic grace in their lives to stop their sinning out of fear of being guilty of 'adding to Christ' and trying to earn their own salvation if they just do it. Or should they wait until the Spirit works a trust in Jesus in them about whatever is triggering their sin. Or, should they repent (yes, that's what Jesus said to do) immediately and without hesitation?
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So, you believing that working to stay saved, which is to reject the Grace of God, is your Theology of "faith", and anyone who has not fallen from Grace, who understands that you can't lose your salvation, .... you believe God has led you to correct them of their Truth.
That's not a good place to exist.
Im not related to a "theological movement".
I teach Pauline Theology, of which, you are not familiar.
Start here, Hebrews 13:9. And live in that VERSE, the rest of your life, and once you start, then what Paul teaches, that I teach, will begin to make spiritual sense to you, but not before.
The devil's theology is "works for salvation" the Gospel of Works.. Keep yourself saved by works.
God's Theology is..."Grace through Faith, without works"..
Do you see yourself, ferris?
We do.
His Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God. Do you have this testimony?
"Just saying, 'yeah I believe God'," do you really think that's what we're talking about?
You say, genuine salvation is measured by the works that accompany genuine salvation. When you say it is "measured", what does that mean? Proven by works?
Much love!
And if in that day, they have no works that you see, they yet remain saved? And this salvation is not dependent on any works that they do or don't do, are we agreed?
Much love!
If you don't believe this truth, then you will be constantly looking for the reasurance of the flesh to tell you what you won't receive by faith. Because, if you aren't receiving something through faith, guess where it's coming from! And you can guess how that works out!
Much love!
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