Instruction in righteousness

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stunnedbygrace

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I welcome your disagreement.

It's when a person can't tolerate disagreement that you should become wary of that person. I like John. I think he's a swell guy, probably a very nice guy that I would enjoy having a beer, coffee, or glass of wine with. He's a terrific musician.

But he doesn't have to brag about his musical talents or proclaim them to be beyond most everyone else's. It's self-evident.

John is a lot of wonderful things and a few problematic things. Kind of like all of us. He shouldn't presume to elevate himself.
Ah, you altered this post from what it first said when I read it earlier. I know what I saw with my own eyes. And that’s another ploy of a covert narcissist, to make others doubt what they see and knock them off kilter. Very bad form.

I actually looked for the post again earlier to respond because I got a hearty chuckle out of ”music snob” since I once told John some musicians I used to like when I listened to music. He thought it was awful music, so I wanted to reply that he IS a bit of a music snob!
 

Mr E

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Ah, you altered this post from what it first said when I read it earlier. I know what I saw with my own eyes. And that’s another ploy of a covert narcissist, to make others doubt what they see and knock them off kilter. Very bad form.

I actually looked for the post again earlier to respond because I got a hearty chuckle out of ”music snob” since I once told John some musicians I used to like when I listened to music. He thought it was awful music, so I wanted to reply that he IS a bit of a music snob!

Not true Jennie.

Take it back.
 

Mr E

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No. You can just convince everyone I see things and am a liar.

If it was true, you could quote it, right?

Appeal to the Moderators or Admin. See if I mystically changed my post.

You’ve gone from mistaken to misrepresented. (aka Lying to defend your prophet)
 

stunnedbygrace

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Okay. I laughed uproariously at “music snob“ and said to myself, I def have to respond to that when I come back! And it turns out I completely imagined it. So go complain to the mods about the crazy old lady who sees things that aren’t there and is abusing you so horribly. This is what you were looking for anyway, right?
 

stunnedbygrace

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I keep hearing “defend him” and “be his savior” as if it is a bad thing to stand up for someone who tells the truth, harms no one, and is constantly harassed. And note, I am the one saying he is harassed, so any repeat of the accusation of “whining” should be directed at me.
 

Mr E

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Okay. I laughed uproariously at “music snob“ and said to myself, I def have to respond to that when I come back! And it turns out I completely imagined it. So go complain to the mods about the crazy old lady who sees things that aren’t there and is abusing you so horribly. This is what you were looking for anyway, right?

I don’t appeal to the Mods without cause.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.” Jude 1:13
Thanks, but I knew that one. :)
My translation says “like” wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. So I always read it as the wandering stars who that darkness is reserved for, not that others can’t be cast there too. Just the way I personally read it. I read the actual men as being “doubly dead”/“second death” in lake of fire. But I’ve begun to like NASB lately and it does not add “like.” It appears to call the men wandering stars rather than like wandering stars. But, they are men, not angels, so…I perceive He was not calling human men angels/wandering stars but WAS saying: they are LIKE wandering stars for whom the darkness is reserved.

But This was what I was looking for: (it’s the “and all liars” part that my mind recalled and I wanted to look at.)

8 But for the cowardly, and [d]unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and sexually immoral persons, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and [e]brimstone, which is the second death.”

8 “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”



When Jude begins to talk about the human men,
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.


So…I think that whole passage speaks of these men. Do you?
 

stunnedbygrace

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I know these things, like what I’m asking above are not like what you were given to understand re:righteousness and holiness and you are therefore not so certain as you are about that other.
but still, they will wag their tongues as if a prophet must have seen everything or else he hasn’t been given anything for all of us. Or as if a modern day prophet (which I’ve seen some of THEM prophesy for building up but they don’t know that’s what they were doing) is not for building up and must instead be forthtelling. :rolleyes:
 

Mr E

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I know these things, like what I’m asking above are not like what you were given to understand re:righteousness and holiness and you are therefore not so certain as you are about that other.
but still, they will wag their tongues as if a prophet must have seen everything or else he hasn’t been given anything for all of us. Or as if a modern day prophet (which I’ve seen some of THEM prophesy for building up but they don’t know that’s what they were doing) is not for building up and must instead be forthtelling. :rolleyes:



Get some rest Jen.

Take another stab at it tomorrow.
 

bbyrd009

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Ah, you altered this post from what it first said when I read it earlier. I know what I saw with my own eyes. And that’s another ploy of a covert narcissist, to make others doubt what they see and knock them off kilter. Very bad form.

I actually looked for the post again earlier to respond because I got a hearty chuckle out of ”music snob” since I once told John some musicians I used to like when I listened to music. He thought it was awful music, so I wanted to reply that he IS a bit of a music snob!
fwiw if you subscribe to a thread (get emails iow) you will always have a copy of the original post
not that i would recommend attempting any convo with ppl like that anyway

ps, i used to know how to subscribe, no longer do tho!
 
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Mr E

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fwiw if you subscribe to a thread (get emails iow) you will always have a copy of the original post
not that i would recommend attempting any convo with ppl like that anyway

Unless you imagine things that were never there. No remedy for that.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Get some rest Jen.

Take another stab at it tomorrow.
One of the most confusing things about gaslighting to the victims of it is the intermittent concern. But it’s not real concern, it’s like a cat letting a mouse go to try and catch it again.
I grew up with it. Now, I don’t put up with it.
 
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Episkopos

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Thanks, but I knew that one. :)
My translation says “like” wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. So I always read it as the wandering stars who that darkness is reserved for, not that others can’t be cast there too. Just the way I personally read it. I read the actual men as being “doubly dead”/“second death” in lake of fire. But I’ve begun to like NASB lately and it does not add “like.” It appears to call the men wandering stars rather than like wandering stars. But, they are men, not angels, so…I perceive He was not calling human men angels/wandering stars but WAS saying: they are LIKE wandering stars for whom the darkness is reserved.

But This was what I was looking for: (it’s the “and all liars” part that my mind recalled and I wanted to look at.)

8 But for the cowardly, and [d]unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and sexually immoral persons, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and [e]brimstone, which is the second death.”

8 “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
What about this one AFTER the judgments are complete.

Rev. 22:15 “For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”

The spiritual sins are dealt with differently than the physical ones. In a great house there are vessels of honour and of dishonour. The above verse speaks of a time AFTER the New Jerusalem comes to the Earth.


When Jude begins to talk about the human men,
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.


So…I think that whole passage speaks of these men. Do you?
Yes...the ones among us who are destined to be cut off from the presence of God.
 
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