Irrefutable biblical proof that death is abolished at the second coming

[WPM]

Op note!

I added this to the Op.

Let us zoom in on the end of 1 Corinthians 15:54-55: “So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then [Gr. tote] shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?”

Here is irrefutable evidence of when “death” is finally defeated and “swallowed up in victory.” It occurs when the redeemed are glorified. It expressly occurs “when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality.” This does not happen at the end of some supposed future millennium as Premillennialists would have us believe. No! It happens at the second coming.

Premillennialist writer Alexander Reese confirms the meaning of the Greek word tote in The Approaching Advent of Christ, whilst referring to another parallel second coming passage in Matthew 13:43, saying, “Then (tote, at that time) shall the righteous shine forth.”

So, it is "then" (tote) at the last trump, and not till then, that death is finally defeated. The glorification of the saints at the second coming sees “death” being “swallowed up in victory.” It is here that “death” finally loses its “sting” and the “grave” loses its “victory.” Why? Because “the last enemy” is here eternally “destroyed.” There is no allowance for some supposed future millennium.

 

[WPM]

Well, no sense arguing, you'll find out soon enough.

Quite the opposite.

Once again: Premils cannot accept what the Book says when their beliefs are refuted. They just run and hide.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Quite the opposite.

Once again: Premils cannot accept what the Book says when their beliefs are refuted. They just run and hide.

Okay, since you lack understanding of the order of events and dismiss the literal meanings of events in Revelation, let's try the Old Testament.

Question: Where In your timeline can you insert these following prophetic events?

And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.”Zech. 14:16

> After the Great Tribulation, which is not a destruction of the earth, nations and languages still exist!
> After the destruction of the first earth, the first heavens, Death, Hades and everyone in it, there will not be nations or multiple languages anymore, only tue New Jerusalem, with billions of Christians who speak one language.

For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ages: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ages and ages. But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.” Isaiah 34:8-11

> "Brimstone" is from volcanic eruptions on the First Earth.

Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established on top of the mountains and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow to it. Many people shall come and say, 'Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, and we shall walk in His paths. For out of Zion shall come forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He shall judge between the nations and rebuke many people; they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." Isaiah 2:2-4)

> "Latter days"? Remember, the first heavens (that means the sun and moon and universe) are destroyed in a fervent heat - (2 Peter 3:10). So, no more nights, no more days.

Isaiah 11:6–9 "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young ones shall lie down together; and the Lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole and the weaned child shall out his hand in the viper's den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in My Holy mountain. For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea."
> Millennial Kingdom on the first earth, where there are still children being born, growing. The New Jerusalem will have only people with resurrected body - no more marriage, no more procreation.

No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed. Isaiah 65:20

>> Wait a minute here, didn't you say death would be destoyed and have irrefutable evidence? This is the first earth during the Millennial Kingdom.

I was watching in the night visions, and behold, One like the Son of Man, coming in the clouds of heaven ... Then to Him was given dominion glory and kingdom, that all people's, nations and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom, the one which will not be destroyed." Daniel 7:13-14

> Millennial Kingdom<

Now you go run along.

 

[Phil .]

You are going to have to be clearer.

Before getting to death… have you questioned if you were in fact actually born?

 

[WPM]

Before getting to death… have you questioned if you were in fact actually born?

No, I have never questioned if I was in fact actually born. Have you?

 

[Phil .]

No, I have never questioned if I was in fact actually born. Have you?

If interested, before death, before a second birth… express or share what the direct experience of being born is / was like.

 

[WPM]

If interested, before death, before a second birth… express or share what the direct experience of being born is / was like.

I will let you go first. I know it occurred because I am here.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Irrefutable biblical proof that death is abolished at the second coming

The first mention of death in God's Word is in the garden of eden and it's referring to spirit death which is being separated from God, not referring to physical death by is the eventual; by product of spiritual death

1 Corinthians 15:26
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

This is referring to those that are saved not being separated from God ever again.

 

[WPM]

The first mention of death in God's Word is in the garden of eden and it's referring to spirit death which is being separated from God, not referring to physical death by is the eventual; by product of spiritual death

1 Corinthians 15:26
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

This is referring to those that are saved not being separated from God ever again.

No it is not. That occurred at Calvary. We now currently walk in victory over the second death - separation from God for all eternity. This passage is talking about physical death.

Live forever

John states Revelation 20:6, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Here, the first resurrection is outlined as the means by which men gain victory over the second death and enter into the great company that reign in Christ – both dead and alive; the redeemed reign in life and in death. In life, they are spiritually positioned in the heavenly Jerusalem, in death, they enter into the immediate presence of God and reign through Him that sits upon the throne.

This corresponds to what Jesus taught in John 11:25, saying, “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die."

This is speaking of the resurrection life that can be enjoyed in this life through faith.

Jesus said in John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Currently believing carefully corresponds with currently experiencing “everlasting life." It is a present reality for the elect, not merely a future hope. That is so because God lives within us now.

John 3:36 says, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God (the second death) abideth on him.”

If you don't possess eternal life now you will not possess it in the life to come. Only those who possess it now will never die.

Jesus said in John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death (or experience the second death) unto life.”

Jesus said in John 6:47: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”

The word “hath” here is a present tense word which means now or at this present time.

Jesus said in John 6:50-51, 54&58: “This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world … Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life … he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.”

John 8:51-52 Christ said to the Pharisees, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death (or experience the second death) … If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.”

Jesus said in John 10:27-28: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish (or experience the second death), neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

Jesus says, in John 11:25, “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die (or experience the second death)."

These bodies are not eternal or immortal. Our spirits are. That is 101 Christianity. These bodies die. What is more we experience eternal life upon salvation. The Christian will live for and never die because the Spirit of God within.

I John 5:11-13 says, “God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”

To have Christ is to have eternal life. That simple! Not to have Christ is not to have eternal life.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

No it is not. That occurred at Calvary. We now currently walk in victory over the second death - separation from God fir all eternity.

Only IF one continues in the Lord's goodness abiding IN Him bearing fruit until the end of their life.

There's no such thing as once saved always saved.

And... physical death has not been abolished yet as people still be dying physically

 

[WPM]

Only IF one continues in the Lord's goodness abiding IN Him bearing fruit until the end of their life.

There's no such thing as once saved always saved.

And... physical death has not been abolished yet as people still be dying physically

How long is "eternal" in your opinion?
How long is "everlasting" in your opinion?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Op Note

There is not one Premil that has been able to lay a punch on the Op. In fact, most have carefully avoided it. This is a strong testimony that the Amil position is watertight.

This should not surprise the Amil brethren.

Post #64 refutes Amillennialism from the Old Testament.
You are purposely ignoring it. Scratching your head? Is it just a mental malfunction or breakdown? Up against the wall, confused ... I know, it is a nightmare for you trying to reconcile those verses.
Answer the questions!
It totally collapses your Amillennial view without even mentioning Revelation - since you adhere to a symbolic view of that.
I am waiting, wondering where in time you will place these events and how you will either distort them and/or place them in the past ( not possible)???

 

[No Pre-TB]

Op Note

There is not one Premil that has been able to lay a punch on the Op. In fact, most have carefully avoided it. This is a strong testimony that the Amil position is watertight.

This should not surprise the Amil brethren.

When pride buds, it’s better to flee.
Those that identify as Premil possibly number in the millions and yet because only a few want to discuss this with you, you count that as a “watertight” Amil position? Or perhaps the few arguing with you are not trained debaters or may not even be active with witnessing to others that they are proved.

Honestly, I don’t voice my opinion because every thread of yours is the same. It appears you’re looking for a fight even if you deny it.

If you are looking to online forums to justify your belief as watertight, full of people with radical strayed views though not all, then you’ll always be right in your own mind.

 

[Phil .]

I will let you go first. I know it occurred because I am here.

The one who knows is the one whose actuality of having been born is in question.
If in fact, there is any interest in questioning assumptions of course.

I is just, that which is isn’t… not I… isn’t it so?
That again would seem to be known, by ‘the knower’ which is presumed to exist, based on having been born.

Here is simply… not there, and there has never actually been experienced.
In honesty, with integrity… only the thought ‘there’ is ever experienced, isn’t it true?

 

[WPM]

When pride buds, it’s better to flee.
Those that identify as Premil possibly number in the millions and yet because only a few want to discuss this with you, you count that as a “watertight” Amil position? Or perhaps the few arguing with you are not trained debaters or may not even be active with witnessing to others that they are proved.

Honestly, I don’t voice my opinion because every thread of yours is the same. It appears you’re looking for a fight even if you deny it.

If you are looking to online forums to justify your belief as watertight, full of people with radical strayed views though not all, then you’ll always be right in your own mind.

I am talking about the classic Amil position. I believe it is watertight. That is my opinion.

Your very Avatar comes across as dogmatic and potentially offensive. Should we interpret that as a sign of pride?

 

[WPM]

The one who knows is the one whose actuality of having been born is in question.
If in fact, there is any interest in questioning assumptions of course.

I is just, that which is isn’t… not I… isn’t it so?
That again would seem to be known, by ‘the knower’ which is presumed to exist, based on having been born.

Here is simply… not there, and there has never actually been experienced.
In honesty, with integrity… only the thought ‘there’ is ever experienced, isn’t it true?

Someone else is going to decript what you are saying. I do not understand your lingo.

 

[Phil .]

Someone else is going to decript what you are saying. I do not understand your lingo.

See how ‘the knower’ has been changed to ‘the understander’?
The ‘one who knows’, is now said to be ‘the one which doesn’t understand’.

What’s in question, if interested, isn’t what’s known or understood… but rather, the claim regarding the one which knows or doesn’t, or which understands or doesn’t… having actually been born in the first place.

‘Someone else’, and ‘your lingo’ are contingent on there being first, a knower or understander, which knows & understands ‘it’ is not ‘someone else’, and which is not the ‘you’ or ‘your lingo’, having been born.

What was it like, the experience of being born?

 

[WPM]

Post #64 refutes Amillennialism from the Old Testament.
You are purposely ignoring it. Scratching your head? Is it just a mental malfunction or breakdown? Up against the wall, confused ... I know, it is a nightmare for you trying to reconcile those verses.
Answer the questions!
It totally collapses your Amillennial view without even mentioning Revelation - since you adhere to a symbolic view of that.
I am waiting, wondering where in time you will place these events and how you will either distort them and/or place them in the past ( not possible)???

I am out of town at the moment. I only have a cell phone. I will address when I get a chance. For the record, I do not see any mention of a 1000 years in any of them. Maybe you could show that before I get home.

 

[WPM]

Okay, since you lack understanding of the order of events and dismiss the literal meanings of events in Revelation, let's try the Old Testament.

Question: Where In your timeline can you insert these following prophetic events?

And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.”Zech. 14:16

> After the Great Tribulation, which is not a destruction of the earth, nations and languages still exist!
> After the destruction of the first earth, the first heavens, Death, Hades and everyone in it, there will not be nations or multiple languages anymore, only tue New Jerusalem, with billions of Christians who speak one language.

For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ages: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ages and ages. But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.” Isaiah 34:8-11

> "Brimstone" is from volcanic eruptions on the First Earth.

Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established on top of the mountains and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow to it. Many people shall come and say, 'Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, and we shall walk in His paths. For out of Zion shall come forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He shall judge between the nations and rebuke many people; they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." Isaiah 2:2-4)

> "Latter days"? Remember, the first heavens (that means the sun and moon and universe) are destroyed in a fervent heat - (2 Peter 3:10). So, no more nights, no more days.

Isaiah 11:6–9 "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young ones shall lie down together; and the Lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole and the weaned child shall out his hand in the viper's den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in My Holy mountain. For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea."
> Millennial Kingdom on the first earth, where there are still children being born, growing. The New Jerusalem will have only people with resurrected body - no more marriage, no more procreation.

No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed. Isaiah 65:20

>> Wait a minute here, didn't you say death would be destoyed and have irrefutable evidence? This is the first earth during the Millennial Kingdom.

I was watching in the night visions, and behold, One like the Son of Man, coming in the clouds of heaven ... Then to Him was given dominion glory and kingdom, that all people's, nations and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom, the one which will not be destroyed." Daniel 7:13-14

> Millennial Kingdom<

Now you go run along.

Re Isaiah 2, when are the last says? When did they begin? When do they terminate? When is the last day?

I believe they are intra-Advent. The last day is when Jesus comes and resurrects mankind and judges them.

 

[DavidTaylor]

Jesus was Amill
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but I should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

Job was also Amill
“So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands. For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.”

Isaiah was also Amill
“Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously. And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it. And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the Lord; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation. Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon”