Irrefutable proof that Jesus is God.

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Justbyfaith said:
In Exodus 20:10 should be clear that the Pharisees were interpreting the scriptures literally and correctly, to say that a man ought not to do any work on the sabbath days.

Jesus showed by word and deed that keeping the Sabbath was to be reasonable and that kind and helpful actions were allowable. He plainly said: “It is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath.” (Read Matthew 12:9-12.) He did not view performing kind and helpful actions as a violation of the Sabbath. Jesus’ actions highlighted a key feature of the Sabbath. Because God’s people rested from their daily labor, they were able to focus on spiritual things.

Jesus, being a Jew under the Law, observed the Sabbath as God’s Word directed, not as the Pharisees directed. He knew it was lawful to do fine things on the Sabbath. (Mt 12:12)

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

justbyfaith said:
It was John's estimation under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost that Jesus' statement that God was His Father meant that He was (and is) equal to the Father.[/QUOTE]

This is an interpretation that says something completely opposite of what God Holy Spirit inspired John to write down. I'm going to believe what God's Holy Spirit inspired John to write down. I'm not agreeing with your interpretations of the scriptures.

 

[justbyfaith]

Here at John 5:19 Jesus was answering the Jews who had accused him of making himself equal to God. He was telling them that he was dependent on his Father who is God, helping the Jews know that he wasn't trying to make himself equal with God. Jesus wasn't doing this just to be some example to us. He was letting the Jews understand that just as he wasn't guilty of breaking the Sabbath he wasn't guilty of trying to make himself equal to God.

I disagree with you. Jesus did break the sabbath and Jesus was making Himself equal with God.

2Co 4:3, But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1Jo 4:4, Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jo 4:5, They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jo 4:6, We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Jesus was High Priest according to the order of Melchizedec; He came not after the law of a carnal commandment but after the power of an endless life.

He was Lord of the sabbath (Mark 2:28); and therefore He was able to reinterpret the sabbath laws according to His own will (Hebrews 7:12); as He did in Mark 2:27 and in Matthew 12:12.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I disagree with you. Jesus did break the sabbath and Jesus was making Himself equal with God.

2Co 4:3, But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1Jo 4:4, Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jo 4:5, They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jo 4:6, We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Jesus was High Priest according to the order of Melchizedec; He came not after the law of a carnal commandment but after the power of an endless life.

He was Lord of the sabbath (Mark 2:28); and therefore He was able to reinterpret the sabbath laws according to His own will (Hebrews 7:12); as He did in Mark 2:27 and in Matthew 12:12.

You certainly are lost if you're saying Jesus is an outright liar.

 

[justbyfaith]

You certainly are lost if you're saying Jesus is an outright liar.

Where or how have I said that Jesus is an outright liar?

I think that you have in fact accused Him of being a liar, for He said on the sabbath day, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
(John 5:17).

Here, the Lord was claiming to violate the sabbath principle of Exodus 20:10, which says specifically that you shall not do any work on the sabbath days.

Exo 20:10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

So then, Jesus was not lying when He claimed to violate the sabbath day law (its letter);

And it is also true, on another note (for the sake of everyone's edification here), that He was teaching us by all of this that we are no longer bound to the letter but are to be obedient to the Spirit (Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6).

 

[justbyfaith]

justbyfaith said:
It was John's estimation under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost that Jesus' statement that God was His Father meant that He was (and is) equal to the Father.

This is an interpretation that says something completely opposite of what God Holy Spirit inspired John to write down. I'm going to believe what God's Holy Spirit inspired John to write down. I'm not agreeing with your interpretations of the scriptures.[/QUOTE]
You are not believing God's Holy Spirit to reject this interpretation of the holy scriptures.

You will die in your sins if you do not believe that Jesus is the great I AM (John 8:24).

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Where or how have I said that Jesus is an outright liar?

I think that you have in fact accused Him of being a liar, for He said on the sabbath day, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
(John 5:17).

Here, the Lord was claiming to violate the sabbath principle of Exodus 20:10, which says specifically that you shall not do any work on the sabbath days.

Exo 20:10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

So then, Jesus was not lying when He claimed to violate the sabbath day law (its letter);

And it is also true, on another note (for the sake of everyone's edification here), that He was teaching us by all of this that we are no longer bound to the letter but are to be obedient to the Spirit (Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6).

justbyfaith said: ↑
I disagree with you. Jesus did break the sabbath and Jesus was making Himself equal with God.

 

[amigo de christo]

Where or how have I said that Jesus is an outright liar?

I think that you have in fact accused Him of being a liar, for He said on the sabbath day, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
(John 5:17).

Here, the Lord was claiming to violate the sabbath principle of Exodus 20:10, which says specifically that you shall not do any work on the sabbath days.

Exo 20:10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

So then, Jesus was not lying when He claimed to violate the sabbath day law (its letter);

And it is also true, on another note (for the sake of everyone's edification here), that He was teaching us by all of this that we are no longer bound to the letter but are to be obedient to the Spirit (Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6).

I agree with paul about meats drinks and days .
But , there is something you need to know .
JESUS never violated the sabbath peroid . They accused him of breaking it , cause HE healed on it .
JESUS showed them their error . You see in the law it was written that a male child had to be circumsized on the eight day .
And we know sometimes that fell on the actual sabbath . IT was not a sin to cirumsize on the sabbath . BUT it was not a sin
to do GOOD , and heal on the sabbath either . Jesus never broke the law peroid . they falsey said HE did .
But i do agree with paul on meats drinks and days . Let each be fully persauded in their own mind .
Meats drinks and days are not sin . Now sin , that is sin , and that we must rebuke and correct .
But meats drinks and days are not sin . Just trying to help with this conversation .

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

justbyfaith said: ↑
I disagree with you. Jesus did break the sabbath and Jesus was making Himself equal with God.

at post 384 you said
I disagree with you. Jesus did break the sabbath and Jesus was making Himself equal with God.

 

[amigo de christo]

justbyfaith said: ↑
I disagree with you. Jesus did break the sabbath and Jesus was making Himself equal with God.

And he is mistaken . JESUS DID NOT break , violate the sabbath . The jews falsey said HE DID .
cause he healed and did good on it . But that is not breaking the sabbath at all .
If a male child can be circumsided on that day , then why do ye accuse me , because i make a man WHOLE ON IT .
But JESUS never once actually broke the sabbath . NOT once . folks misunderstand that . But HE did not .

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus showed by word and deed that keeping the Sabbath was to be reasonable and that kind and helpful actions were allowable. He plainly said: “It is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath.” (Read Matthew 12:9-12.) He did not view performing kind and helpful actions as a violation of the Sabbath. Jesus’ actions highlighted a key feature of the Sabbath. Because God’s people rested from their daily labor, they were able to focus on spiritual things.

Jesus, being a Jew under the Law, observed the Sabbath as God’s Word directed, not as the Pharisees directed. He knew it was lawful to do fine things on the Sabbath. (Mt 12:12)

Jesus reinterpreted the sabbath laws to say that it was lawful to do well on the sabbath days: He changed the law (Hebrews 7:12).

Because originally, the letter of the law allowed no one to do any work on the sabbath days (Exodus 20:10).

Jesus changed this so that you can do work on the sabbath if it can be defined as a good deed; and that is different from saying that you cannot do "any" work.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

This is an interpretation that says something completely opposite of what God Holy Spirit inspired John to write down. I'm going to believe what God's Holy Spirit inspired John to write down. I'm not agreeing with your interpretations of the scriptures.

You are not believing God's Holy Spirit to reject this interpretation of the holy scriptures.

You will die in your sins if you do not believe that Jesus is the great I AM (John 8:24).[/QUOTE]

I'm not the one calling Jesus a liar or disbelieving the scriptures. You believe interpretations not what Gods Holy Spirit inspired men to write down.

 

[amigo de christo]

PS . but let us know this . When JESUS appeared to the doubter , after being raised from the dead .
What did that man call JESUS . MY LORD and MY GOD . DO notice JESUS DIDNT CORRECT HIM .
AT ALL .
Exactly . Now let the glorious LORD be praised .

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus reinterpreted the sabbath laws to say that it was lawful to do well on the sabbath days: He changed the law (Hebrews 7:12).

Because originally, the letter of the law allowed no one to do any work on the sabbath days (Exodus 20:10).

Jesus changed this so that you can do work on the sabbath if it can be defined as a good deed; and that is different from saying that you cannot do "any" work.

Correct me if i am wrong . But i am beginning to think barney might be an adventist . I will go pray for him now .
I have spoken with many adventists . IF he is one , he is in grave danger . And that aint judging , its just truth .
IF it were but meats drinks and days , i would not be worried near as much . But i have seen what ELLEN white has taught and some issues .
And its highly dangerous stuff , some of it is . Course i am not accusing the man of being an adventists . But the langague sounds so familiar .
SO , i am off to pray for a while .

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Jesus reinterpreted the sabbath laws to say that it was lawful to do well on the sabbath days: He changed the law (Hebrews 7:12).

Because originally, the letter of the law allowed no one to do any work on the sabbath days (Exodus 20:10).

Jesus changed this so that you can do work on the sabbath if it can be defined as a good deed; and that is different from saying that you cannot do "any" work.

Jesus didn't change the law, it was always lawful to do a kind deed on the Sabbath. Jesus didn't change the law to make it ok to do a kindness on the Sabbath.

 

[amigo de christo]

You are not believing God's Holy Spirit to reject this interpretation of the holy scriptures.

You will die in your sins if you do not believe that Jesus is the great I AM (John 8:24).

I'm not the one calling Jesus a liar or disbelieving the scriptures. You believe interpretations not what Gods Holy Spirit inspired men to write down.[/QUOTE]
Oh there is no doubt on Whom JESUS is . Its made quite clear in several places in the old holy scrips and the gosples .
When it says and GOD was the WORD . it means exactly what it says .
Yes indeed . And the word did become flesh . Everlasting FATHER , it says that too in ISSIAH .
And we know what the desciple who saw him after he was risen said . MY LORD and MY GOD . So , yeah . its quite clear .

 

[justbyfaith]

And he is mistaken . JESUS DID NOT break , violate the sabbath . The jews falsey said HE DID .
cause he healed and did good on it . But that is not breaking the sabbath at all .
If a male child can be circumsided on that day , then why do ye accuse me , because i make a man WHOLE ON IT .
But JESUS never once actually broke the sabbath . NOT once . folks misunderstand that . But HE did not .

Hi amigo,

Jesus did in fact claim to violate the sabbath in that He said, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work; and that day was the sabbath (John 5:17 and context).

The letter of the sabbath law was that you shall not do "any" work on it (Exodus 20:10).

Jesus violated the letter as it was given up to that point. Remember that Jesus said that the scribes and Pharisees sat in Moses seat, and therefore you must do what they say but not what they do.

Nevertheless, Jesus changed the sabbath law (Hebrews 7:12); and he was able to do so because He came as High Priest of the order of Melchizedec; and He came not after the law of a carnal commandment but after the power of an endless life.

What this means is that Jesus was and is the Lord of the sabbath (Mark 2:28). So He was able to reinterpret and redefine it according to what He could now see was prudent since He was now on the earth in human form; and therefore He, in His love, could see the bondage that was being set forth by the letter of the sabbath laws and because He had the authority to change it, He did. So, now it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days (Matthew 12:12); because the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath (Mark 2:27).

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus didn't change the law, it was always lawful to do a kind deed on the Sabbath. Jesus didn't change the law to make it ok to do a kindness on the Sabbath.

Barny , that is correct my friend . HE never changed nor violated the sabbath . JESUS FULLFILLED the law , never once transgressed .

 

[amigo de christo]

Well . this debate is not for me . But do be encouraged .

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus didn't change the law,

Heb 7:11, If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12, For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13, For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14, For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15, And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.