Irrefutable proof that Jesus is God.

[amigo de christo]

Hi amigo,

Jesus did in fact claim to violate the sabbath in that He said, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work; and that day was the sabbath (John 5:17 and context).

The letter of the sabbath law was that you shall not do "any" work on it (Exodus 20:10).

Jesus violated the letter as it was given up to that point. Remember that Jesus said that the scribes and pahrisees sat in Moses seat, and therefore you must do what they say but not what they do.

Nevertheless, Jesus changed the sabbath law (Hebrews 7:12); and he was able to do so because He came as High Priest of the order of Melchizedec; and He came not after the law of a carnal commandment but after the power of an endless life.

What this means is that Jesus was and is the Lord of the sabbath (Mark 2:28). So He was able to reinterpret and redefine it according to what He could now see was prudent since He was now on the earth in human form; and therefore He, in his love, could see the bondage that was being set forth by the letter of the sabbath laws and because He had the authority to change it, He did. So, now it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days (Matthew 12:12); because the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath (Mark 2:27).

Is someone here trying to impose we must eat or not eat , or keep certain days .

 

[justbyfaith]

Barny , that is correct my friend . HE never changed nor violated the sabbath . JESUS FULLFILLED the law , never once transgressed .

Well . this debate is not for me . But do be encouraged .

You should know that you are encouraging him to continue to deny the Deity of Christ.

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh i went back and read the begining of the entire post .
yeah we got some major misunderstandings going on .
The THREE are ONE my friends .
Yeah . Well , stick with what the bible says my friends .
ISSIAH said it best first . And he shall be called , wonderful counsler , mighty God , EVERLASTING Father .
YEAH . they one all right .

 

[amigo de christo]

You should know that you are encouraging him to continue to deny the Deity of Christ.

No i aint . i was talking about meats drinks and days . I always shudder when folks deny the DIETY of CHRIST .
That scares me for them .

 

[justbyfaith]

No i aint . i was talking about meats drinks and days . I always shudder when folks deny the DIETY of CHRIST .
That scares me for them .

His argument is that if Jesus didn't violate the sabbath, then neither does it say in John 5:18 that He made Himself equal with God in saying that God was his Father.

 

[amigo de christo]

Just trust and read what the bible says . I did not understand as clearly as i do now . it was about six months in
that one day it just clicked . But let no man deny the diety of Christ . EVEN when i did not understand it
I never denied the truth of it . I just did not understand it . Now i do , by grace .
SO if we dont understand it , at least DO NOT deny it . Just keep praying and keep reading that bible .
And if it says something , dont rely on mens teachings to try and twist it away like some do .
THIS too is what i warned us all . GO back into ONLY bibles and learn them for yourselves . Please .

 

[amigo de christo]

His argument is that if Jesus didn't violate the sabbath, then neither does it say in John 5:18 that He made Himself equal with God in saying that God was his Father.

WELL he never did violate the sabbath . BUT that dont mean We deny His diety either .
The bible proves HIS deity . ISSIAH alone proves it . But so does the first chapter of JOHN . Big as life that proves it too .
I know this can be hard to grasp at first . BUT , even when i did not understand something , by grace i knew it was true .
THEN later i did recieve the understanding as well . Just focus on the other scrips . not the sabbath stuff .
Cause JESUS never did violate the sabbath . Just show him the other scriptures .

 

[amigo de christo]

Barney . just start over . just read what it simply says and beleive it . Even if you dont understand it .
Just beleive it . But i plead with ya , do not deny the diety of Christ . Just go back
to issiah nine and read it real slowly . notice key words , mighty God and EVERYLASTING FATHER .
NOTICE it also says everlasting Father . and all this was foretold of a child that would be born of a virgin . ITS JESUS .
Then read slowly the first chapter of john . If it says it . ITS True . Even if we dont understand it .
Its still true . Just know that .

 

[Truther]

Truther....not quite...

Yah-shua means YHWH (Yah saves). YHWH gave his Son the special and unique honor of being our Saviour through his actions to, and after the Cross, and thus his name was given for this purpose/mission. Not that Jesus/Yahshua was given the title of God at all, and especially not as being the Father. That would be blasphemy, for sure. Yahshua did not inherit God's Spirit and his divinity at all. That is wishful thinking and not scriptural at all. He was given it for use and empowerment. At best, Yahshua is the Father's proxy and the 'front-man' and 'face' of his Father for us, and to us. He filled his Son with his power of his own Spirit as he desires for his OWN purpose. YHWH is still in charge, and his divinity is his own, forever. There is only one, YHWH, that has a divine purpose and raison d'etre, and it does not originate from his Son, Yahshua

APAK

No, it says "Jesus", not any other name. Read your Bible.

 

[Truther]

Christophany said,
These passages in Revelation make it clear that Jesus is God. Remember it is Jesus in the NT who is Coming back to earth that every eye will see. It was Jesus who was pierced on the cross for our sins. John is clearly once again calling Jesus God!!!!!!! The Coming and the coming in the clouds never refers to the Father in the NT but always to Jesus who is the Lord God, the Almighty below


Do you doubt the person greater than Thomas, yes or no

Why didn't Jesus correct Thomas if he called him "God" unjustly?

Would you have stepped in and corrected Thomas, since nobody else did?

 

[Truther]

Now see that's an interpretation which says something completely opposite than what God's Holy Spirit inspired men to write down. You want people to believe that when the scriptures say that Jesus has a Father and God that it's not true. It's shown even after Jesus had been resurrected that Jesus has a Father and God and Jesus was immortal and incorruptible when he said he had a Father and God.

So like I said the apostle Paul made clear that Jesus’ Father has “left nothing that is not subject to him [Jesus],” with the evident exception of “the one who subjected all things to him,” that is, Jehovah, the Sovereign God. (1Co 15:27; Heb 1:1-14; 2:8) So Jesus Christ’s “name,” therefore, is more excellent than that of God’s angels, in that his name embraces or stands for the vast executive authority that Jehovah has placed in him. (Heb 1:3, 4)

I better quote the verse...


4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

... inherited his name from whom?

 

[amigo de christo]

Why didn't Jesus correct Thomas if he called him "God" unjustly?

Would you have stepped in and corrected Thomas, since nobody else did?

exactly . its what i said too my friend . exactly . MY LORD and MY GOD . and JESUS would have corrected HIM
had it been a lie . JESUS always corrected error . exactly my friend . spot on right .

 

[justbyfaith]

Barney . just start over . just read what it simply says and beleive it . Even if you dont understand it .
Just beleive it . But i plead with ya , do not deny the diety of Christ . Just go back
to issiah nine and read it real slowly . notice key words , mighty God and EVERYLASTING FATHER .
NOTICE it also says everlasting Father . and all this was foretold of a child that would be born of a virgin . ITS JESUS .
Then read slowly the first chapter of john . If it says it . ITS True . Even if we dont understand it .
Its still true . Just know that .

What you're not realizing is that he is going to be reading those passages in a Bible that is specifically geared and corrupted to deny the doctrine of the Deity of Christ.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I'm not the one calling Jesus a liar or disbelieving the scriptures. You believe interpretations not what Gods Holy Spirit inspired men to write down.

Oh there is no doubt on Whom JESUS is . Its made quite clear in several places in the old holy scrips and the gosples .
When it says and GOD was the WORD . it means exactly what it says .
Yes indeed . And the word did become flesh . Everlasting FATHER , it says that too in ISSIAH .
And we know what the desciple who saw him after he was risen said . MY LORD and MY GOD . So , yeah . its quite clear .[/QUOTE]

You keep going down the path you're in which you're denying the Only Begotten Son of God came to the world of mankind.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Barny , that is correct my friend . HE never changed nor violated the sabbath . JESUS FULLFILLED the law , never once transgressed .

I don't know why these people choose not to concern themselves with written down but at least you and I know the truth about the Sabbath

 

[Truther]

Oh there is no doubt on Whom JESUS is . Its made quite clear in several places in the old holy scrips and the gosples .
When it says and GOD was the WORD . it means exactly what it says .
Yes indeed . And the word did become flesh . Everlasting FATHER , it says that too in ISSIAH .
And we know what the desciple who saw him after he was risen said . MY LORD and MY GOD . So , yeah . its quite clear .

You keep going down the path you're in which you're denying the Only Begotten Son of God came to the world of mankind.[/QUOTE]



Michael the archangel is the word?
The archangel(word) became flesh?
Aaah, c'mon Barn!

 

[Truther]

I don't know why these people choose not to concern themselves with written down but at least you and I know the truth about the Sabbath

If I may, what truth about the sabbath?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Error, your doctrine states each person is separate, and distinct. the Father is not the Son who is not the Holy Spirit, who is not the Father. so you just denied your trinity doctrine.

No, the distinctions of the Persons, and their common divine substance is what establishes Trinitarian Doctrine. Sabellianism is something else entirely. I'm not saying one Person of the Trinity is another Person of the Trinity. That is what Sabellianism does, whether Monarchial modalism or Jesus-Only modalism.

You don't seem to understand the difference between Trinitarianism and Modalism? Am I right? Modalism is like saying, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are each the Father. Or, the Father and the Holy Spirit are each Jesus.

Trinitarianism does not confuse the identities of the Father, Son, and Spirit. They are each God, but each has His own identifying features and personality in relationship with one another, without confusion. The Son and the Father relate with one another as distinct personalities. The Spirit and the Father also have distinct personalities, and yet do not relate as father to son.

again you deny your doctrine of the trinity. if it's "ONE" eternal person then ther are no sub persons. so again you're in error of the trinity. for in it it declare three person as God. meanin one Spirit.

You may refer to God as "spirit." But that's not the same thing as identifying the Holy Spirit as a *person.* God is a spirit in infinity, and He is the Holy Spirit revealed in certain locations within finite creation.

They are the same God, but are defined differently as they appear. And they have distinct roles, the Father operating from infinity, and the Holy Spirit operating within time and space. They are all related as the same God, because what God the Father does from infinity is precisely what is done through the Son and the Spirit in time and in space. It's just that the Father is acting as a person outside of time and space, whereas the Son and the Spirit are acting as persons within time and space.

now Randy if what you said is true, then is it the same person in John 1:3 the same person in Isaiah 44:24 who "MADE ALL THINGS", yes or no?

John was talking about Jesus who as God's Word co-created the universe. It was through the Word that God made the universe. That was the tool through which God operated in the creation of the universe.

As the Word made flesh, Jesus originated before the Incarnation as the Word of God. Clearly, God used His Word to create the universe. Thus, both the Father and the Son had created the universe, even though prior to the Incarnation the Son had existed as the Word of God.

The Word of God was the instrument by which God created things in the finite universe. The tool God used to create was His own personal existence within the essence of His verbal commands. He became known as Jesus after the Incarnation.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Why didn't Jesus correct Thomas if he called him "God" unjustly?

Would you have stepped in and corrected Thomas, since nobody else did?

what I see is so many people cling desperately to this Scripture and ignoring all the other many scriptures that

Why didn't Jesus correct Thomas if he called him "God" unjustly?

Would you have stepped in and corrected Thomas, since nobody else did?

Less than two weeks previously before Thomas expressed ,"My Lord and My God," he had heard Jesus pray to his heavenly Father and say: “This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3, AV) On the fourth day after that prayer, or on his day of resurrection, Jesus sent a special message to Thomas and the other disciples by means of Mary Magdalene. “Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.” (John 20:17, 18, AV) So from Jesus’ prayer and from this message through Mary Magdalene, Thomas knew who his own God was. His God was not Jesus Christ, but his God was the God of Jesus Christ. Also his Father was the Father of Jesus Christ. Thus Thomas knew that Jesus had a God whom he worshiped, namely, his heavenly Father.

John was there and heard Thomas exclaim: “My Lord and my God," after that did God's Holy Spirit inspire John to write down that Jesus was God, “the only true God” whose name is Jehovah? (Ps. 35:23, 24) Here would have been an excellent place for John to explain John 1:1 and say that Jesus Christ, who was the Word made flesh, was God himself, that he was “God the Son, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity.” But is that what Gods Holy Spirit inspired John to write down, no what God's Holy Spirit inspired John to write down is, That Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”—John 20:29-31.

There are way too many scriptures that show Jesus has a Father and God.
John 14:28, John 17:3, John 20:17, Even after Jesus had gone back into heaven the Apostles continued to say Jesus has a God at Rev.1:1, Rev.3:12, 1Peter 1:3,1John 4:9,10, 1Cor.11:3;15:20,24-28

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Heb 7:11, If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12, For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13, For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14, For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15, And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

All of this you're texting is about that new covenant that Jesus did institute with his Apostles but didn't become active until Jesus sacrificed his human life for the world of mankind. The old covenant didn't change until Jesus was put to death. There's nothing in these scriptures that even suggest that any law was changed before Jesus sacrificed his human life.